Pat Reusse: Gophers failed to take hint from 2016 team: When schedule is easy, win

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BleedGopher

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per Pat:

There is a fair-sized group of Gophers football loyalists, even if those folks haven’t come close to filling TCF Bank Stadium, second smallest in the Big Ten, for any of five home games to this point.

The loyalists were even more pleased with the hiring of Phillip John Fleck to replace Tracy Claeys than they were when Tim Brewster replaced Glen Mason a decade ago – and that was pleased indeed.

The tradition here is to get lathered up with optimism when the new coach arrives, and then blame whatever immediate problems occur on the previous coach.

Mason was 6-7 in his final season of 2006, and Brewster was 1-11 in 2007, and the Gophers loyalists seemed to agree that it was Mason’s fault.

Claeys had finished out 2015 as the interim for the resigned Jerry Kill, then received the job and went 9-4 in 2016. The reasons for his firing were three-fold, and in this order:

1-Attendance was poor. 2-He was a cerebral, stoic giant of a man, not a jolly, self-promoting giant of a man. 3-There was an incident involving a coed and a number of players, followed by suspensions that led to a brief players’ boycott, and Claeys offered support of the players' protest.

Fleck arrived after an unbeaten regular season (13-0) at Western Michigan, and then a competitive loss to Wisconsin in the Cotton Bowl. The loyalists quickly bought into Fleck’s high energy and the non-stop buzz words and phrases.

The Gophers’ strength of schedule will go up significantly over the month of games that remain: Michigan (22), Nebraska (58), Northwestern (30) and Wisconsin (11).

The bottom line at the moment is this: Claeys faced an easy schedule (65th) and took advantage. Fleck has faced the weak part of his schedule (77th) and has not.

http://www.startribune.com/gophers-...016-team-when-schedule-is-easy-win/454018223/

Go Gophers!!
 

Is there really that many Wisconsin alums in MSP that this sort of article generates click bait? Goodness
 

If anything, I think the "loyalists" Reusse refers to are the people who aren't PJ Fleck fans.

Part of the liberty the media in MN makes is that they just create their own environment.

Reusse was talking on Saturday about why people aren't showing up if they love PJ.
Well, some people like PJ, some don't. In the end, people here aren't going to go and buy tickets for any sport until there is proof in the pudding.

It makes Gopher football an easy target of course, but no one is going to baseball games, timberwolves games, gopher hockey games, etc.
 

Yawn...another poor article by Reusse.
 

grumps said:
If anything, I think the "loyalists" Reusse refers to are the people who aren't PJ Fleck fans.

Part of the liberty the media in MN makes is that they just create their own environment.

Reusse was talking on Saturday about why people aren't showing up if they love PJ.
Well, some people like PJ, some don't. In the end, people here aren't going to go and buy tickets for any sport until there is proof in the pudding.

It makes Gopher football an easy target of course, but no one is going to baseball games, timberwolves games, gopher hockey games, etc.
Click to expand...


That's what Coyle failed to recognize; Coyle grew up on the marketing side of Ath. Depts. and wanted a PR type of coach as Reusse points out.

The best piece of journalism in Reusse's career!!!!

HE IS SPOT ON IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE ARTICLE!!!
 


JZsportswhiz said:
Is there really that many Wisconsin alums in MSP that this sort of article generates click bait? Goodness
Click to expand...

Look at the half empty stadium on game days and you may conclude it's not just written for WI alums.
 

This is going to get people all worked up. Mostly just because they hate Patrick. But, I can't honestly say anything he said in that article is factually incorrect.
 

This is why I don't support the star tribune. Bad article from a columnist who should have retired years ago. Comparing Fleck to Brewster is ignorant and been beaten to death.
I understand the frustration of them not winning. I'm close to 50 and with the exception of a handful of years, the Gophers have been bad. I think Fleck is doing the right things. This year's team wasn't gonna win 9 games this year with either coach. Gophers had no QB with experience. Its always darkest before the dawn.
 

OddStack said:
That's what Coyle failed to recognize; Coyle grew up on the marketing side of Ath. Depts. and wanted a PR type of coach as Reusse points out.

The best piece of journalism in Reusse's career!!!!

HE IS SPOT ON IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE ARTICLE!!!
Click to expand...

I don't think Coyle is wrong. You need to have positive PR to grow a fan base. What was going on last year wasn't working.
To expect immediate results would be the fallacy.
 



Tim Brewster’s best season was only two games worse than Jerry Kill’s Best and Tracy’s best.

Even if we lost out. This season would be better than kill’s worst. 1 worse than Tracy’s worst and only 4 worse than either of their best.


The sky is not falling. We were an above average team last year. We are a below average team this year. That’s not a huge move. That’s a medium to small move.
 

Anyone else notice that Pat did not mention the word "recruiting" once? He conveniently left out that part of the equation.
 

Chucklehead said:
This is why I don't support the star tribune. Bad article from a columnist who should have retired years ago. Comparing Fleck to Brewster is ignorant and been beaten to death.
I understand the frustration of them not winning. I'm close to 50 and with the exception of a handful of years, the Gophers have been bad. I think Fleck is doing the right things. This year's team wasn't gonna win 9 games this year with either coach. Gophers had no QB with experience. Its always darkest before the dawn.
Click to expand...

this team may not have won 9 games, but they certainly should have beaten a few of the teams they got beat by...I understand the losses of personnel to graduation, but I think another coach, Kill, and TC, would have won more than they lost thus far. I am not saying Fleck is in over his head, too early to tell, but HE is the one the who set the bar stupidly high with all his rhetoric at the beginning of the year, no one else, so I do blame PJ. Now he is trying to backtrack and say he is changing the culture...well, f*ck the culture, how about he change some losses into wins. Tired of losing and tired of hearing WI mentioned as a final 4 team...they have been their 4/6 years, how about we just having a chance to get their., if PJ doesn't work, then we are looking at another 5 years minimum w/o a sniff at success.
 

Again, Pat writes an article and folks are left with the decision of admitting he is right or sticking their head in the mud and ripping on Pat. Again, many choose the latter. There is nothing in his article that is incorrect. It doesn't mean things won't change in the next couple years, but on 10/30/17 he is spot on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 



the.chucker said:
this team may not have won 9 games, but they certainly should have beaten a few of the teams they got beat by...I understand the losses of personnel to graduation, but I think another coach, Kill, and TC, would have won more than they lost thus far. I am not saying Fleck is in over his head, too early to tell, but HE is the one the who set the bar stupidly high with all his rhetoric at the beginning of the year, no one else, so I do blame PJ. Now he is trying to backtrack and say he is changing the culture...well, f*ck the culture, how about he change some losses into wins. Tired of losing and tired of hearing WI mentioned as a final 4 team...they have been their 4/6 years, how about we just having a chance to get their., if PJ doesn't work, then we are looking at another 5 years minimum w/o a sniff at success.
Click to expand...

He was saying the team wouldn't be very good this season since at least spring ball
 

Some guy said:
Tim Brewster’s best season was only two games worse than Jerry Kill’s Best and Tracy’s best.

Even if we lost out. This season would be better than kill’s worst. 1 worse than Tracy’s worst and only 4 worse than either of their best.


The sky is not falling. We were an above average team last year. We are a below average team this year. That’s not a huge move. That’s a medium to small move.
Click to expand...

Tracy was HC for 1 year and had 9 wins. How can a 4 win season be 1 worse or even 4 worse than 9?
A 4 game difference is a big one.

The article is spot on.
A PR coach will get some fans to attend, but in the end wins are going to matter more than anything.
 

Reusse's brand of journalism thrives on negativity like flies on a dead horse. :horse:
 

I don't know what would be worse.

1. People not attending, as it is right now.

2. A bunch of over-anxious idiots buying season tickets buying into the hype as if PJ was the second coming of Jesus of Nazareth.


Either one could be rippable by Reusse.
 

grumps said:
I don't think Coyle is wrong. You need to have positive PR to grow a fan base. What was going on last year wasn't working.
To expect immediate results would be the fallacy.
Click to expand...

Contradict yourself much? How long was Claeys given to get things working? What's that about immediate results?
 

GFBfan said:
Tracy was HC for 1 year and had 9 wins. How can a 4 win season be 1 worse or even 4 worse than 9?
A 4 game difference is a big one.

The article is spot on.
A PR coach will get some fans to attend, but in the end wins are going to matter more than anything.
Click to expand...


Lower ticket prices. You can do that no matter who the coach is.

It's easy to say "win and they will come." But, honestly, that doesn't happen much around here. We won nine games last year and it didn't help attendance. I understand the easy schedule, no wins against rivals, blah, blah, blah. But nine wins is nine wins, and we're headed toward four or five this year. Plus a similar season next year. We had very good attendance in 2015 before the second of three price increases occurred last year (with the threat of a third hanging overhead). We're a few more years away from winning at a rate that will consistently fill the stadium at these prices -- if it ever happens.

We can't use winning as a marketing tool. Not yet, anyway. It has to be affordable and fun whether we win or not (it does need to be competitive). Fill the stadium regularly, then worry about raising prices. It's not a coaching problem; it's a marketing problem.
 

OddStack said:
Contradict yourself much? How long was Claeys given to get things working? What's that about immediate results?
Click to expand...

I don't think Claeys was fired for wins or losses.
He was fired because he was a horrible marketer of the program.
Awful figurehead for football in the year 2017.
He was under-qualified to be head coach of a Big Ten program. (Compare the head coaching records of Fleck and Claeys prior to coming to Minnesota, and it evident Claeys never grew anything from scratch).
Claeys was coasting on a ship propelled by Kill. That boat ride was ending.

Claeys could have won a Rose Bowl last year but I still think he would have been fired by 2019 no matter what.
 

grumps said:
I don't think Claeys was fired for wins or losses.
He was fired because he was a horrible marketer of the program.
Awful figurehead for football in the year 2017.
He was under-qualified to be head coach of a Big Ten program. (Compare the head coaching records of Fleck and Claeys prior to coming to Minnesota, and it evident Claeys never grew anything from scratch).
Claeys was coasting on a ship propelled by Kill. That boat ride was ending.

Claeys could have won a Rose Bowl last year but I still think he would have been fired by 2019 no matter what.
Click to expand...

I'll try again. How long was Claeys given to get things going?

What is your point about immediate results?

It doesn't matter what the reason was for his firing. The reason was a "fallacy" b/c it would be expecting immediate results. (your argument)
 

OddStack said:
I'll try again. How long was Claeys given to get things going?

What is your point about immediate results?

It doesn't matter what the reason was for his firing. The reason was a "fallacy" b/c it would be expecting immediate results. (your argument)
Click to expand...

Does the fact that he was already on staff not count for anything? Claeys basically said in his opening press conference that he wasn't going to change much. That was kind of the point of giving him the job...that the team wouldn't skip a beat because he was already on the inside.
 

I'm sure glad we didn't hire a new OC/QB coach and new O-Line coach then...that would have been considered a change.

A new DC would've qualified as change...sure glad that didn't happen either.
 

OddStack said:
I'll try again. How long was Claeys given to get things going?

What is your point about immediate results?

It doesn't matter what the reason was for his firing. The reason was a "fallacy" b/c it would be expecting immediate results. (your argument)
Click to expand...

Oh, right.
It takes years to see a program get installed and see wins result.


My point about Claeys isn't about winning on the field, I think it had more to do with direction of the program.

In the interview with PJ, I can imagine PJ presented how he would direct the program, how he would influence recruiting, how he would put basically a whole learning plan around how he would teach players on the field and off, and how he would reach outside the program to the other athletic groups, and how he would reach out to media, etc. (basically all the crap we've been hearing since he got hired).

Whereas in my mind, I'm sure Coyle had similar conversations with Claeys prior to firing in which Coyle maybe asked about what Claeys goal and direction for the program might be, and it was probably something like.

"Well, we're going to practice hard and we're going to win football games".

The Coyle maybe asked about academics.
"We're going to make sure those kids go to class".

Then Coyle maybe asked how we'll market the program.
"We're going to win more games".

Then Coyle maybe asked about recruiting.
"We're going to recruit hard and coach players up who come here".



Basically, I think Coyle probably was getting answers, and they weren't wrong answers, but they weren't answers that were providing Coyle and confidence that it was going to transcend what was going on. So even if we waited for 3 more years, Coyle probably had low confidence anything transcending was going to happen.

Kind of like having someone tell you how to make bread and they never mention yeast. "We're going to mix up ingredients and bake it!"
Coyle could have waited 3 years to see if the bread was going to rise, but if there isn't any yeast, it's just going to be a waste of time.

I can't blame a new AD for hiring his guy and for firing someone he didn't have faith in who was making substantial PR missteps. The timing for that should be short at the point you discover he's not your person.
Just like Maturi did the same thing with Brewster. After two bowl games, 7 games into Brewster's third season he was gone.
 

Grumps-
You have far more faith in Coyle than I do. I'll bet Coyle had ZERO conversations with Claeys similar to that. Claeys was a lame duck coach from the minute Coyle was hired; unless, they went to B1G Championship game or beyond. (I believe Coyle wouldn't have had the guts to fire him. He barely had the guts to do it with 9 wins: shown by the reasons he gave for the firing...see recruiting rankings, attendance, etc. Btw..those are also the same reasons for the statement below.)

He wanted a PR Coach first and foremost and one with some success secondarily.
 

OddStack said:
I'm sure glad we didn't hire a new OC/QB coach and new O-Line coach then...that would have been considered a change.

A new DC would've qualified as change...sure glad that didn't happen either.
Click to expand...

How many new coaches do we this year compared to Claeys' first year?
 

bizzle22 said:
How many new coaches do we this year compared to Claeys' first year?
Click to expand...

How does that matter? He responded to your statement that TC didn't change much.


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Spoofin said:
How does that matter? He responded to your statement that TC didn't change much.


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Click to expand...

Because the conversation started talking about expecting immediate results after a coaching change. My point is that comparing the change from Kill to TC vs the change from TC to PJ is ridiculous.
 

bizzle22 said:
Because the conversation started talking about expecting immediate results after a coaching change. My point is that comparing the change from Kill to TC vs the change from TC to PJ is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Yes, of course. This site has already done an outstanding job of documenting a long list of things we can't expect from PJ and his staff in their first year.


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Hates Monikers said:
Lower ticket prices. You can do that no matter who the coach is.

It's easy to say "win and they will come." But, honestly, that doesn't happen much around here. We won nine games last year and it didn't help attendance. I understand the easy schedule, no wins against rivals, blah, blah, blah. But nine wins is nine wins, and we're headed toward four or five this year. Plus a similar season next year. We had very good attendance in 2015 before the second of three price increases occurred last year (with the threat of a third hanging overhead). We're a few more years away from winning at a rate that will consistently fill the stadium at these prices -- if it ever happens.

We can't use winning as a marketing tool. Not yet, anyway. It has to be affordable and fun whether we win or not (it does need to be competitive). Fill the stadium regularly, then worry about raising prices. It's not a coaching problem; it's a marketing problem.
Click to expand...

Ditto that. Season ticket sales will drop next year. UM should knock off one of the premium raises to help bring people back. That huge triple raise was idiotic.
 

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