No confidence

everybody knows my name said:

I want to believe in the Fleckster, and in my heart of hearts I do believe that we'll win at some point with Fleck at the helm, eventually. But I have absolutely no confidence that we'll win another game this season, and I seriously question whether his amazing 2016 season at W Michigan was just a once-in-a-lifetime flash in the pan, like Derrike Cope winning the 1990 Daytona 500 and then having a completely undistinguished career in NASCAR.

I didn't really expect 9 or 10 wins from this team in 2017, but I never imagined that we'd suck so badly with so much talent on the defense and an offense not devoid of talent. It doesn't even look like we'll go to the Oil Change Bowl this year.

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You know, I was with you till you talked about the talent on defense. How many times do people have to be reminded of the debilitating injuries to our best players on D and the very little talent on DL. You just can't say "well that doesn't count". In fact, it's the only thing that counts. Regarding the offense, I agree. With better coaching and play calling, Rhoda could've been very serviceable and we could easily be at 7 wins. Who the hell calls read option 20 times from the gun and tells the QB you actually have no option. My god, these coaches are dense.

salzie said:

Our offense isn't very talented. We have good RB's and one good WR and no depth to an average OL

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I would say the OL is starting to play at a better than average level. Now that they have actually had the same group for two weeks in a row you can see they are getting there timing down better. This is one area of the team you notice the blocks being sustained longer, the penalties are limited, and the QB is not getting hit a ton like he was in the past. I like the future of the group, now they just need to develop some depth and hopefully not have to play so many younger guys in the future.

I am fine with the current season and fine with 4 maybe 5 wins......for this year. Last year we had a 5th year senior QB and yes he was crappy at times but he was experienced and he made enough good decisions to win 9 games. Now we are trying to navigate the Big Ten with a totally inexperienced QB. Frighteningly obvious when you watch the games. Folks just have to adjust their expectations. Flexibility is a good quality to have and I am willing to admit I thought we would have more wins. It's not going to happen for several reasons. I trust Fleck, give the guy a chance to put his recruits in place.

Beat Nebraska and most of the whiners start singing a different tune.

oldauggie said:

I am fine with the current season and fine with 4 maybe 5 wins......for this year. Last year we had a 5th year senior QB and yes he was crappy at times but he was experienced and he made enough good decisions to win 9 games. Now we are trying to navigate the Big Ten with a totally inexperienced QB. Frighteningly obvious when you watch the games. Folks just have to adjust their expectations. Flexibility is a good quality to have and I am willing to admit I thought we would have more wins. It's not going to happen for several reasons. I trust Fleck, give the guy a chance to put his recruits in place.

Beat Nebraska and most of the whiners start singing a different tune.

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I pretty much agree with this take, but I don't have 100% trust in Fleck. To me Fleck is a high risk, high reward type of hire. His potential ceiling is probably higher than Kill/Claeys but his odds of crashing and burning are also higher.

I want him to succeed though and just like any new coach he deserves at least 4 years. I just am disappointed with the team so far this year. It could have been a better year.

I love how people act like, if Clayes was still coach, that Croft would be throwing lights outside & tearing it up. It's total nonsense that Fleck is constantly knocked for not winning with the positive things he was left with. Yet the negative things, left from the previous staff(poor QB/WR development, depth issues/poor recruiting, etc.), are somehow dismissed as reasons we're having growing pains under a new staff. You can't have it both ways.

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Lordshawesome said:

I love how people act like, if Clayes was still coach, that Croft would be throwing lights outside & tearing it up. It's total nonsense that Fleck is constantly knocked for not winning with the positive things he was left with. Yet the negative things, left from the previous staff(poor QB/WR development, depth issues/poor recruiting, etc.), are somehow dismissed as reasons we're having growing pains under a new staff. You can't have it both ways.

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I think if Claeys was coach he would have figured out an offensive scheme to maximize the (lack of) talent at QB. I think Fleck is set on installing his system and doesn't care if it doesn't work with the current personnel.

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Word said:

I think if Claeys was coach he would have figured out an offensive scheme to maximize the (lack of) talent at QB. I think Fleck is set on installing his system and doesn't care if it doesn't work with the current personnel.

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I can agree with that.


But keep in mind, Claeys was here to hold things together.

PJ is here to blow things up.

Tlsbhansen said:

I am continually amazed at how many on this board are completely okay with the fact that we are likely to go from 9-4 to 4-8......

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I'm continually amazed at how many on this board are completely in panic mode already.

Maybe the mods should merge this in with the other PJ Fleck panic thread.

Donovan said:

I'm continually amazed at how many on this board are completely in panic mode already.

Maybe the mods should merge this in with the other PJ Fleck panic thread.

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and I am just as amazed at how many on this board have complete confidence in a coach who has never succeeded at the P5 level and now says things will be fixed in 2019, 2020 or 2021! What is the basis of the unfailing confidence? Slogans? PJ's 40 time? Coyle's confidence in him?

Donovan said:

I'm continually amazed at how many on this board are completely in panic mode already.

Maybe the mods should merge this in with the other PJ Fleck panic thread.

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Or one of the 20-30 threads about Armstrong..

Tlsbhansen said:

and I am just as amazed at how many on this board have complete confidence in a coach who has never succeeded at the P5 level and now says things will be fixed in 2019, 2020 or 2021! What is the basis of the unfailing confidence? Slogans? PJ's 40 time? Coyle's confidence in him?

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Complete confidence? unfailing confidence? Ever heard of a straw man argument? No one that I know on this site that is not in panic mode has used those dramatic descriptions. I'm simply not worried at this point (and won't be next year, either) and willing to give Fleck time to implement his plan. Do I think Fleck could fail? Of course. But to be worried this early is just illogical to me.

Donovan said:

Complete confidence? unfailing confidence? Ever heard of a straw man argument? No one that I know on this site that is not in panic mode has used those dramatic descriptions. I'm simply not worried at this point (and won't be next year, either) and willing to give Fleck time to implement his plan. Do I think Fleck could fail? Of course. But to be worried this early is just illogical to me.

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Out of curiosity are you a season ticket holder? I am. We went from a program with continual progress to one that is full of hype, short on on-field progress and now a three year plan. I think I have better ways to spend $1,000 a year in donations and tickets. Seriously thinking of dropping the tickets I have had for many years and buying back in when Peej has brought us to the promised land in 3-4 years.

This isn't that difficult to understand.

1. Every person on this board who is not an imposter wants PJ to succeed. Even if they hate him.
2. Nobody on here thinks PJ shouldn't get at lease 4 years to prove himself. Even if they hate him.
3. Many of us on here are very disappointed with how this staff prepared the offensive unit and planned the offensive strategy and are pissed we aren't going to a bowl game this year.

It's not that hard to comprehend.

No confidence? Panic mode? Are you sure you are not talking about Michigan? Harbaugh is in year 3. This does not happen overnight.

maroonfive said:

No confidence? Panic mode? Are you sure you are not talking about Michigan? Harbaugh is in year 3. This does not happen overnight.

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Please explain why Michigan would be in a panic mode? They have a Super Bowl coach who took a doormat program in Stanford to near the top, who had Michigan to the Orange Bowl last year. Sure, they had a very tough FL. State team beat and blew it in the end, but anyone panicking in Michigan is an idiot.

Michigan has talent everywhere, other than maybe a great QB, but they still have 4 or 5 better than all of our QBs. Jim Harbaugh is at least willing to change his approach based on the talent on the roster, which seems to be a problem with PJ Fluke's staff.

I'd take Harbaugh over PJ Fleck any day of the week until he is dead.

Tlsbhansen said:

Out of curiosity are you a season ticket holder? I am. We went from a program with continual progress to one that is full of hype, short on on-field progress and now a three year plan. I think I have better ways to spend $1,000 a year in donations and tickets. Seriously thinking of dropping the tickets I have had for many years and buying back in when Peej has brought us to the promised land in 3-4 years.

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No, I had season tickets up until 2 years ago. The guy I had them with was not a diehard fan and decided he didn't want to get them any longer. The last two years a few of us pony up for a couple of games and either buy online or go down and get scalped seats. If I get married to a gal who likes football, I'm back in.

Hey, I don't blame you if you decide to save some money and bail on the season tickets. If you have good seats, it may be a drag if you lose them and in 2020 they are now in a worse location.

Tlsbhansen said:

and I am just as amazed at how many on this board have complete confidence in a coach who has never succeeded at the P5 level and now says things will be fixed in 2019, 2020 or 2021! What is the basis of the unfailing confidence? Slogans? PJ's 40 time? Coyle's confidence in him?

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I don't have complete confidence, but I'm going to wait before I panic


I was patient with Christian Ponder too, I'm known to go down with the ship

While it feels painful this year, I support the choice the coaching staff has made to install their offensive system now. It gives the players who will be here after this year experience in the system heading into spring ball, so the staff won't have to try to install and teach the system they actually want to run from scratch. Instead, they'll be building on lessons taken from in-game experience, with film available to study with players as a teaching tool.

The returning players will also have all winter to dig into the offense and build on their experience from this season. This should help them be more comfortable in their own roles, and also be ready to help teach the incoming class (Frosh and JuCo's) who come in January or in the spring. The majority of the players who will be part of the 2-deeps next year will already have experience in the offensive system, playing against Big10 opponents.

Having players with experience in the fundamentals of the offensive system will allow the coaches to install more layers/wrinkles going into next year. Additionally, the returning players' strengths and weaknesses will be more familiar to the coaches, which means they'll be able to tailor the plays they choose to run to fit the strengths of the players they have. If I were in coach Fleck's position, I'd install the system I WANT to run and learn the strengths and weaknesses of my current crop of non-senior players in that context, along with instilling the culture of the program.

Is this the ONLY right way to handle the first year coaching a new team? Probably not. However, it's pretty clear that coach Fleck had a plan going into this year, and he's following that plan. While the personalities of the HC's are wildly different, this reminds me of how coach Kill approached the first year of his tenure at the U of M. I hope we can all agree that Jerry Kill was a good coach, and had the program moving in the right direction. Let's give coach Fleck the same opportunity to build the program based on his vision.