Gophers lead Big Ten in fewest true freshmen playing

Again, I'm confused why you keep changing the topic of this thread. The thread was meant to discuss the low number of Freshmen playing which seems relevant considering our coach says young more than HYPRR now-a-days. Why you keep discussing experience and now draftable Seniors (IALTO) in defense is baffling to me.


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I think the point some are trying to make is that true freshman played doesn't disprove anything. It's relevant but doesn't tell us the whole story by itself.
 

I think the point some are trying to make is that true freshman played doesn't disprove anything. It's relevant but doesn't tell us the whole story by itself.

That is true, but I fail to see how the number of draftable seniors has anything to do with judging how "young" our team is.


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Maybe somebody can do a snap count comparison.... that's bound to show something different too....

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Yes, but he still supports PJ. Not sure if it's still with every fiber of his body. I miss those daily pronouncements but he's busy fact-checking PJ because we all need someone to parse the information and hold PJ's feet to the fire.

This is the best bit going on the board right now. PJ says (insert whatever here) and the same handful of posters runaround to prove it's all "mumbo jumbo" as if it's some big we got him moment.
 

That is true, but I fail to see how the number of draftable seniors has anything to do with judging how "young" our team is.


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Earlier in this thread you said this.

Of course, some have and will continue to argue ways this doesn't disprove what PJ said - but hell, some did that with the "pay cut" statement so I suspect it is unavoidable.

As for the draftable seniors part, I have no idea what that has to do with anything here either.
 


I don’t remember Wozniak playing on Saturday, I think that’s why we saw Ko Kieft. Eric Carter is technically a senior. But that probably discredits your point as he is worse than 2 of our freshman wideouts.

Duke wasn’t listed on the depth chart. I know he played, but don’t remember if he started. McCrary definitely did not. We also have some juniors. Congratulations for playing.

Kieft was playing for Lingen. Woz played the whole game and made some good blocks
 

Just so I understand - this thread shows a transition from those defending everything PJ says to acknowledging a lot of it is garbage but making fun of those that point it out because it isn't a big deal. I'd say we are making progress. Well done GH.


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That is true, but I fail to see how the number of draftable seniors has anything to do with judging how "young" our team is.


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The entire point of this thread is Swingman trying to prove that we aren't young. He's doing this because he can't stand PJ and wants to call him out as a liar, while at the same time showing that we are deep and experienced and to show that we should be much better than our record shows.

I'm illustrating that the underlying talent is lacking and that all seniors/juniors aren't created equal. That's really what we're trying to get at, right? Some think PJ was left a gold mine and we should have won the west this year. Others saw a roster that had some holes. Case in point - last year and this year we started a 5th year senior QB. On paper, it looks the same. But realizing that Mitch was a 3rd year starter and Rhoda had limited experience, it's not an apples to apples comparison.
 

The entire point of this thread is Swingman trying to prove that we aren't young. He's doing this because he can't stand PJ and wants to call him out as a liar, while at the same time showing that we are deep and experienced and to show that we should be much better than our record shows.

I'm illustrating that the underlying talent is lacking and that all seniors/juniors aren't created equal. That's really what we're trying to get at, right? Some think PJ was left a gold mine and we should have won the west this year. Others saw a roster that had some holes. Case in point - last year and this year we started a 5th year senior QB. On paper, it looks the same. But realizing that Mitch was a 3rd year starter and Rhoda had limited experience, it's not an apples to apples comparison.

And here I thought Swingman was just trying to make a point that we aren't as young as PJ says we are or really younger than the average team.


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I think this thread is meant to demonstrate that when the team isn't very good, this board isn't very good.
 

Most of PJ's many, many exaggerations wouldn't bother in the least. But he talks culture, culture. Can we agree culture must be important to him? The only conclusion can be his culture doesn't apply to him? And that what's annoying with all the exaggerations. Listen to him at the 1:26 mark and continue to defend him... at least you'll possibly understand why some people see PJ differently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwH2IGCmlec
 

JG: I think this argument cuts both ways. I and others believe there is talent on this team - BUT the talent is not showing up because of the change in systems. If the returning players were playing under the former coaching staff, using the previous schemes and systems, I believe they would look better because they were recruited for those systems and coached in them.

The people who point at the returning players and say "see, the returning talent wasn't that good" are discounting the change in schemes. I have come to believe that the change in systems is a much bigger issue than I expected, and is part of the reason why this team is not playing as well as I expected.

And, to be bluntly honest, I think the previous staff was better at X's and O's - when they were coaching their players in their system. Fleck may be - probably is - a better recruiter and motivator. In the best of all worlds, I would take Fleck as Head Coach, recruiter and motivator - but I would have Claeys and Sawvell running the defense. On offense, still waiting to see what Kirk C's offense really looks like when he has players who fit the system. he doesn't this year.
 

Most of PJ's many, many exaggerations wouldn't bother in the least. But he talks culture, culture. Can we agree culture must be important to him? The only conclusion can be his culture doesn't apply to him? And that what's annoying with all the exaggerations. Listen to him at the 1:26 mark and continue to defend him... at least you'll possibly understand why some people see PJ differently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwH2IGCmlec

You nailed it.


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Most of PJ's many, many exaggerations wouldn't bother in the least. But he talks culture, culture. Can we agree culture must be important to him? The only conclusion can be his culture doesn't apply to him? And that what's annoying with all the exaggerations. Listen to him at the 1:26 mark and continue to defend him... at least you'll possibly understand why some people see PJ differently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwH2IGCmlec

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/amZfgEVrf84Xm" width="480" height="269" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/mic-drop-amZfgEVrf84Xm">via GIPHY</a></p>
 

Most of PJ's many, many exaggerations wouldn't bother in the least. But he talks culture, culture. Can we agree culture must be important to him? The only conclusion can be his culture doesn't apply to him? And that what's annoying with all the exaggerations. Listen to him at the 1:26 mark and continue to defend him... at least you'll possibly understand why some people see PJ differently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwH2IGCmlec

What's he lying about within his program again?
 

JG: I think this argument cuts both ways. I and others believe there is talent on this team - BUT the talent is not showing up because of the change in systems. If the returning players were playing under the former coaching staff, using the previous schemes and systems, I believe they would look better because they were recruited for those systems and coached in them.

The people who point at the returning players and say "see, the returning talent wasn't that good" are discounting the change in schemes. I have come to believe that the change in systems is a much bigger issue than I expected, and is part of the reason why this team is not playing as well as I expected.

And, to be bluntly honest, I think the previous staff was better at X's and O's - when they were coaching their players in their system. Fleck may be - probably is - a better recruiter and motivator. In the best of all worlds, I would take Fleck as Head Coach, recruiter and motivator - but I would have Claeys and Sawvell running the defense. On offense, still waiting to see what Kirk C's offense really looks like when he has players who fit the system. he doesn't this year.

Every thread on this board seems to devolve off topic into Fleck vs. Claeys so I might as well join the crowd. The notion that Claeys/Sawvell are superior defensive minds (X's & O's) was my gut feel as well, but the stats don't prove it out yet when comparing to this team. This year's defense has allowed fewer yards per game so far through 7 games (317 TY vs. 357 LY) and fewer points per game (19 TY vs. 23 LY). Personally, I tend to place too much weight on Claeys' nice one-off defensive efforts including the Holiday Bowl last year and a handful of other gems the prior few years and tend to forget about the turds. I'm gonna let Fleck's staff prove it out some more before howling about it.
 

Most of PJ's many, many exaggerations wouldn't bother in the least. But he talks culture, culture. Can we agree culture must be important to him? The only conclusion can be his culture doesn't apply to him? And that what's annoying with all the exaggerations. Listen to him at the 1:26 mark and continue to defend him... at least you'll possibly understand why some people see PJ differently.

Why even care what he says? As someone pointed out in another thread too many people acting like its personal. Don’t like Fleck so be it but the constant whining and complaining about him is beyond ridiculous.


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Just so I understand - this thread shows a transition from those defending everything PJ says to acknowledging a lot of it is garbage but making fun of those that point it out because it isn't a big deal. I'd say we are making progress. Well done GH.


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Good god. I like you, Spoofin, but what exactly is your motivation? What are you trying to accomplish with this constant noise?
 

And here I thought Swingman was just trying to make a point that we aren't as young as PJ says we are or really younger than the average team.


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Unfortunately swingman or anyone else hasn't shown anything that proves any of that.
 




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