we get younger in 2018?


Fleck's recruiting class has now fallen to 33. Will he be in the top 60 by signing day?
 


Here's my thinking if I'm PJF: Redshirt as many of this year's true freshman as possible. Play any true freshman that are talented enough to play in the 2017-2018 signing class for the 2018 season. The next 18 games are to used to build for one thing: The 2019 season. Gophers go 4-8 this year, 6-6 plus or minus a game in 2018. It's 2019 where PJF should go all in. Have you seen that schedule? Incremental inmprovement year 1 to year 2 and, BOOM, year 3 the Gophers go 9-3 or better with mostly PJF's recruits and it'll show he knows how to (re)build a program. PJF will then have other schools /ADs fawning over him and MN will have to really boost Flecks and his assistants salary handsomely or lose him to a school with a bigger brand and deeper pockets.

The next 2 years really don't matter to me as a fan and I've set my expectations as such.
 

There's no doubt we’ll be ranked significantly higher than the mid 70s, which is where Claeys had us on Dec 31st last year.
 




There's no doubt we’ll be ranked significantly higher than the mid 70s, which is where Claeys had us on Dec 31st last year.

He was going to load up on talent especially after the scandal, don't you know anything?
 

I’m sorry I don’t live in your fantasy world where last years 9 wins were Elite! And where Tracy is long term answer as a P5 head coach, even though no other AD would agree with you.

I know that your shtick is PJ, public relations man, but we really have only one gauge of a coaches success and that is wins and losses, everything else is subjective and in the eye of the beholder . This could definitively change in the future, but at this point using the only real measurable, I don't know how you can say Claeys was a failure and PJ a success?
 



This could definitively change in the future, but at this point using the only real measurable, I don't know how you can say Claeys was a failure and PJ a success?

At this point one has an undefeated regular season, a conference championship and an invite to a New Year's Day 6 Bowl. It's not Tracy Claeys.
 

At this point one has an undefeated regular season, a conference championship and an invite to a New Year's Day 6 Bowl. It's not Tracy Claeys.

We will let you tell us if those results were in the Big 10. Well?
 


Here's my thinking if I'm PJF: Redshirt as many of this year's true freshman as possible. Play any true freshman that are talented enough to play in the 2017-2018 signing class for the 2018 season. The next 18 games are to used to build for one thing: The 2019 season. Gophers go 4-8 this year, 6-6 plus or minus a game in 2018. It's 2019 where PJF should go all in. Have you seen that schedule? Incremental inmprovement year 1 to year 2 and, BOOM, year 3 the Gophers go 9-3 or better with mostly PJF's recruits and it'll show he knows how to (re)build a program. PJF will then have other schools /ADs fawning over him and MN will have to really boost Flecks and his assistants salary handsomely or lose him to a school with a bigger brand and deeper pockets.

The next 2 years really don't matter to me as a fan and I've set my expectations as such.

And we wonder why MN has not had a lot of success in the past 5 decades...........
 






Did anyone even read the article?

"A plethora of departures from the 2014 and ’15 recruiting classes — which will combine to form next year’s seniors and redshirt seniors — are a driving force behind Minnesota’s youth remaining a central theme into 2018.

From the 2014 class, half of Minnesota’s 22 scholarship players departed before this season. Of those still here, seven will be redshirt seniors next season, only three of whom are current starters — running back Rodney Smith, center Jared Weyler and defensive tackle Gary Moore. Plus, former walk-on kicker Emmit Carpenter.

From 2015, one-third of the Gophers’ 24 scholarship players are gone. Six still with the team will be seniors in 2018, two of whom are starters — safety Jacob Huff and cornerback Antonio Shenault. Top running back Shannon Brooks and contributing linebacker Blake Cashman are also in that group."
...
"The Gophers’ 2015 class ranked 63rd in the nation and 13th in the Big Ten; the 2014 class was 57th in the country and 11th in the Big Ten."
 


Here's my thinking if I'm PJF: Redshirt as many of this year's true freshman as possible. Play any true freshman that are talented enough to play in the 2017-2018 signing class for the 2018 season. The next 18 games are to used to build for one thing: The 2019 season. Gophers go 4-8 this year, 6-6 plus or minus a game in 2018. It's 2019 where PJF should go all in. Have you seen that schedule? Incremental inmprovement year 1 to year 2 and, BOOM, year 3 the Gophers go 9-3 or better with mostly PJF's recruits and it'll show he knows how to (re)build a program. PJF will then have other schools /ADs fawning over him and MN will have to really boost Flecks and his assistants salary handsomely or lose him to a school with a bigger brand and deeper pockets.

The next 2 years really don't matter to me as a fan and I've set my expectations as such.
And we wonder why MN has not had a lot of success in the past 5 decades...........

That's just my outlook personal outlook. It's a self-preservation philosophy. Plus when I'm sitting in the friendly confines of Lucas Oil Stadium on December 7, 2019 I can say I told you so :rolleyes:
 

Next year will be year Zero +.

This year is 'Year Zero', and since the team will be 'getting younger', it follows that next year will be 'Year -1', the following year 2019 will therefore be another 'Year Zero', and if everything falls just right 2020 will FINALLY be year 1. I can't wait !! ;)
 

Did anyone even read the article?

"A plethora of departures from the 2014 and ’15 recruiting classes — which will combine to form next year’s seniors and redshirt seniors — are a driving force behind Minnesota’s youth remaining a central theme into 2018.

From the 2014 class, half of Minnesota’s 22 scholarship players departed before this season. Of those still here, seven will be redshirt seniors next season, only three of whom are current starters — running back Rodney Smith, center Jared Weyler and defensive tackle Gary Moore. Plus, former walk-on kicker Emmit Carpenter.

From 2015, one-third of the Gophers’ 24 scholarship players are gone. Six still with the team will be seniors in 2018, two of whom are starters — safety Jacob Huff and cornerback Antonio Shenault. Top running back Shannon Brooks and contributing linebacker Blake Cashman are also in that group."
...
"The Gophers’ 2015 class ranked 63rd in the nation and 13th in the Big Ten; the 2014 class was 57th in the country and 11th in the Big Ten."

Yes, and I think swingman's OP was a fine counterpoint.
 


Among the arguments that drive me nuts:

Fleck won in the MAC, so he's going to win in the B1G.

That's like saying I know a guy with a winning record as a 9-man high school coach, so he could go to Eden Prairie and do just as well as Mike Grant.

Can we call agree the B1G is a better conference than the MAC? Can we agree the B1G has better players, more talented players overall than the MAC? (not talking about 1 or 2 good kids - roster-wide depth).

Can we agree that a B1G coach needs to recruit better players than a MAC coach to be competitive?

And, can we agree that we don't know what kind of a B1G Coach PJ Fleck is going to be. We don't know. We don't know. Hoping is not knowing. Wishing is not knowing. We know he won at the MAC. We don't know if he will win at the B1G level.

at this point, the only thing we know is that Fleck is 3-3 as a major conference D1 Coach, and is 0-3 as a B1G coach. that is all we know. Hoping, wishing and dreaming do not put wins on the board. playing better than the other team puts wins on the board.
 

Among the arguments that drive me nuts:

Fleck won in the MAC, so he's going to win in the B1G.

That's like saying I know a guy with a winning record as a 9-man high school coach, so he could go to Eden Prairie and do just as well as Mike Grant.

Can we call agree the B1G is a better conference than the MAC? Can we agree the B1G has better players, more talented players overall than the MAC? (not talking about 1 or 2 good kids - roster-wide depth).

Can we agree that a B1G coach needs to recruit better players than a MAC coach to be competitive?

And, can we agree that we don't know what kind of a B1G Coach PJ Fleck is going to be. We don't know. We don't know. Hoping is not knowing. Wishing is not knowing. We know he won at the MAC. We don't know if he will win at the B1G level.

at this point, the only thing we know is that Fleck is 3-3 as a major conference D1 Coach, and is 0-3 as a B1G coach. that is all we know. Hoping, wishing and dreaming do not put wins on the board. playing better than the other team puts wins on the board.

As long as we can agree that people should give that coach time to recruit his players and implement his system, sure. Drives me nuts that people are already judging Fleck a failure based on a grand total of 6 games, or questioning whether he is a good coach based on 6 games, or because he is too flashy, or wears a tie, or buckle shoes. Cuts both ways. Similar to what Pitino went through. A lot of people, me included, thought he should be canned after that 8 win debacle of a season. What a genius I was.
 

Among the arguments that drive me nuts:

Fleck won in the MAC, so he's going to win in the B1G.

That's like saying I know a guy with a winning record as a 9-man high school coach, so he could go to Eden Prairie and do just as well as Mike Grant.

Can we call agree the B1G is a better conference than the MAC? Can we agree the B1G has better players, more talented players overall than the MAC? (not talking about 1 or 2 good kids - roster-wide depth).

Can we agree that a B1G coach needs to recruit better players than a MAC coach to be competitive?

And, can we agree that we don't know what kind of a B1G Coach PJ Fleck is going to be. We don't know. We don't know. Hoping is not knowing. Wishing is not knowing. We know he won at the MAC. We don't know if he will win at the B1G level.

at this point, the only thing we know is that Fleck is 3-3 as a major conference D1 Coach, and is 0-3 as a B1G coach. that is all we know. Hoping, wishing and dreaming do not put wins on the board. playing better than the other team puts wins on the board.

SCOOLS cant grasp the difference between the MAC and Big 10, apparently.
 

SCOOLS cant grasp the difference between the MAC and Big 10, apparently.

I can grasp it just fine. Not once did I say Fleck won at the MAC therefore that guarantees he will win in the B1G. 6 games in the B1G is a long ways from determining success or failure but for some of you that is more than enough time.
 

I can grasp it just fine. Not once did I say Fleck won at the MAC therefore that guarantees he will win in the B1G. 6 games in the B1G is a long ways from determining success or failure but for some of you that is more than enough time.

You know the intent of the way you posted previously. Dont lie now.
 

And people say P.J. is full of B.S. I get it, many people don't like sales people.

Do salespeople even like salespeople?

Sent from my Commodore 64 using Tapatalk
 

I will cut PJ some slack on this as most coaches always talk about how young their team is. About the only coach that didn't play that PR game was Claeys and look where it got him.

I think PJ has the potential to be a phenomenal recruiter. I think Claeys /Sawvel will always be better at Xs and Os. The question is can PJ make enough "hits" in recruiting? As we all know there are no guarantees that highly ranked classes will pan out.

I think PJ has the potential to take us to some great seasons but I think there is also the risk for a few more seasons like this one.

Sent from my Commodore 64 using Tapatalk
 

son,

I appreciate your contribution to this board in so many ways--especially the Sunday recaps--and you make valid points: Lord knows the Big Ten has been the graveyard of MAC coaching careers. However, I disagree with your assessment on "that's all we know".

For instance, Fleck has made it clear that he favors a four-five year player development model whereas the previous regimes had relied on JUCOs to plug in where needed. That's a coaching philosophy issue, and the changeover in approach could quite easily have an effect on the W/L column.

What we know is that Fleck is intensely ambitious and it's about more than money. WMU could find the money, but they couldn't find the road Fleck needs to what he wants. You know why I think Minnesota was on Fleck's "list"? Winning the B1G West is doable and puts you 3 games from the NC. As long as you handle the season and the B1G East rep convincingly, you're automatically in the playoff conversation. You get those games, you're National Champion. You do it twice or three times--you're the guy that rebuilt a dormant dynasty. Minnesota builds a statue of you with Kirby Puckett kissing your ring.

Seems like everyone wants to see Brewster in Fleck. I don't. To me, he's Holtz: A record of success (albeit Fleck's is less impressive), a disciplinarian on and off the field, and brutally, intensely goal-driven.

As a long time Minnesota fan, I was so dismayed when Kill said they went to talk with Mason about what it would take to win at Minnesota, and reportedly Mason told Kill to eat 3 cupcakes, schedule 1 competitive ooc, and try to get the "winnable" games in the B1G. You know, because that's Minnesota.

Look, I don't know what it will take to win at Minnesota, but I do know it starts with hunger, desire, and a willingness to throw aside anything that's in the way. Is Fleck the guy? I think so, but only time will tell.

As for this season, the now if you will, coaching changes are funny things--there's always player issues. Players and coaches have distinct personalities--sometimes they clash. Or they disagree on future development. For instance, my coach felt I'd be better on offensive line (the scut work of college football). At that point, I thought my coach would be more useful as an untenured phy ed instructor. It didn't work out well, and it spilled on the rest of the team and probably on the field. New systems, a new team--not just players, all the support pretty much. It can be tricky.

I don't like to see us lose. I don't like seeing winnable games slip away. But I'm totally rowing and trying to patiently give PJ the time to get up and running. Time will tell, as it always does.

And truthfully, PJ's a little conservative for my tastes: If you want to walk on water, you've got to get out of the boat.
 




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