we get younger in 2018?

swingman

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http://www.twincities.com/2017/10/1...-this-season-but-theyll-be-younger-next-year/

Greder repeats the PJ we are young, but we will be younger in 2018 mantra in his Pioneer Press piece today.

Are we younger in 2018?

Two seniors (Wright, Calhoun) among 9 who have played on oline...seven guys (Weyler, Greene, Connelly, Olson, Schlueter, Oseland, Dovich will be older next year...next up guys this year (Andries, Sassack, Schmitz, Davis) are all true frosh or rs frosh and all will be older. PJ seems to be after juco oline guys still.

Top two running backs both should return a year older.

One WR (Carter) leaves...Johnson, Douglas, Howard, Williams, Still, AutmanBell, Hmielewski, all gain a year of Fleck and Simon training, another year in Nichol S and C program. Maybe you argue Manns or Bateman play right away...but two frosh WRs is same/less than what we have this year.

We lose two senior tight ends...probably going to more one tight end looks anyway, but we will be younger at TE.

QB? If Armstrong or a year older Morgan beats out Croft, that is probably a good thing. If Croft sticks and wins job, we have an older top QB than this year.

Kicker a year older.

So, in offense two deep, we lose 6 of 22 guys...in offense one deep, we lose 3 of 11...

At defensive tackle, we lose fourth year guy Richardson, fifth year guy Merrick, fourth year guy Stelter up front...return Moore as fifth year senior...plug in fifth year transfer from Alabama, fourth year junior Silver. Robinson a year older.

No senior defensive ends.

Lose Ayinde and McGhee from secondary..return Winfield, Kiondre, Shenault, Huff, Craighton, Durr, Holly, Estes, Harris, Swenson all a year older...mix in fourth year junior Williamson. If Sapp, Henderson or Smith beat out an older db, that is a good thing, right? PJ really values hanging onto red shirts, so kind of doubt he plays them.

Lose one starting linebacker, one back up linebacker...Barber, Martin,Cashman, Waters, Huff all gain a year in system.

Lose punter. Backup this year will be a rs jr next year. Long snapper returns.
 

Even if we're younger I do hope that PJ & Co's system for a year at least gets everyone off to a faster start.
 

Wish I could be younger next year. Stupid lumbago.


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p
70% of the roster is underclassmen this year.

And that won't change next year, or the year after and slightly the year after that.
If you bring in about 22 per year, RS at least half, plus walk ons you will have at least 60% underclassman all the time.
If we're younger next year then many players who are playing now shouldn't be.


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Swing - You bring up some good points. It is almost like sometimes PJF is just saying words over and over even if they mean nothing or aren't actually fact. Almost.


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p

And that won't change next year, or the year after and slightly the year after that.
If you bring in about 22 per year, RS at least half, plus walk ons you will have at least 60% underclassman all the time.
If we're younger next year then many players who are playing now shouldn't be.


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Basically it's like being a vampire.
 

Interesting point Swingman. I've always taken Fleck at his word that we will be younger next year, but included in "younger" for me is less experienced.

DT: We will be replacing Richardson and Jackson who have played a lot of football for Minnesota (Richardson more than Jackson) with some combination of OJ Smith and Royal Silver who have never played a down for Minnesota and Gary Moore who is seeing his first time on the field this year. There's a big downgrade in experience there. The one note here for me is I thought Steltler would be a factor this year and he simply hasn't been.

DE: We really just don't have much here. Hopefully they don't have to keep Coughlin here out of necessity and if he's out there it means that he was able to add size without losing athleticism. The other guys in contention to play at either spot are all young/inexperienced with the exception of Winston.


LB: We lose Celestin and top backup Poock while potentially moving Coughlin back to LB. Whoever replaces Celestin will be young in experience/snaps as an every down LB

CB: I think Fleck/Smith hope for us to have either the Florida transfer Williamson or one of the 2018 recruits step up at CB. We don't lose anyone here, but there still won't be much game experience returning given the injuries to Thomas/Craighton

S: McGee and to a less extent Ayinde have played the most football of anyone in the secondary and we lose both. Nobody returning will have a similar amount of game experience.

On Offense:

OL: Lose 2 of the top 6 guys on the OL and those Sr's will be replaced by guys with little to no actual game reps. I find it interesting that Fleck seems to be targeting some JUCO OT's as you would think Greene is entrenched at LT and that Andries or Connelly would be the RT with the other being the swing tackle.

TE: Clearly younger and almost no game experience to speak of returning with the exception of Beebe who hasn't played much this season

WR: If Mark Williams builds on his game against Michigan State, maybe we won't be younger here. As it stands now, I'd expect someone who has played very little college football (Douglas, Autman-Bell, one of the recruits) to line up opposite Tyler Johnson.

QB: This could be someone who has never taken a snap or Demry could have about a little over a half season's worth of experience under his belt.

RB: Clearly not younger here unless something unexpected happens with Smith or Brooks

I think it's possible the Gophers could be better at a number of positions next year even if they might be a bit younger at them: WR, OL, and CB chief among them. I am worried about the lack of literally any proven commodities on the DL and at TE and most of all about the QB situation.
 



Interesting point Swingman. I've always taken Fleck at his word that we will be younger next year, but included in "younger" for me is less experienced.

DT: We will be replacing Richardson and Jackson who have played a lot of football for Minnesota (Richardson more than Jackson) with some combination of OJ Smith and Royal Silver who have never played a down for Minnesota and Gary Moore who is seeing his first time on the field this year. There's a big downgrade in experience there. The one note here for me is I thought Steltler would be a factor this year and he simply hasn't been.

DE: We really just don't have much here. Hopefully they don't have to keep Coughlin here out of necessity and if he's out there it means that he was able to add size without losing athleticism. The other guys in contention to play at either spot are all young/inexperienced with the exception of Winston.


LB: We lose Celestin and top backup Poock while potentially moving Coughlin back to LB. Whoever replaces Celestin will be young in experience/snaps as an every down LB

CB: I think Fleck/Smith hope for us to have either the Florida transfer Williamson or one of the 2018 recruits step up at CB. We don't lose anyone here, but there still won't be much game experience returning given the injuries to Thomas/Craighton

S: McGee and to a less extent Ayinde have played the most football of anyone in the secondary and we lose both. Nobody returning will have a similar amount of game experience.

On Offense:

OL: Lose 2 of the top 6 guys on the OL and those Sr's will be replaced by guys with little to no actual game reps. I find it interesting that Fleck seems to be targeting some JUCO OT's as you would think Greene is entrenched at LT and that Andries or Connelly would be the RT with the other being the swing tackle.

TE: Clearly younger and almost no game experience to speak of returning with the exception of Beebe who hasn't played much this season

WR: If Mark Williams builds on his game against Michigan State, maybe we won't be younger here. As it stands now, I'd expect someone who has played very little college football (Douglas, Autman-Bell, one of the recruits) to line up opposite Tyler Johnson.

QB: This could be someone who has never taken a snap or Demry could have about a little over a half season's worth of experience under his belt.

RB: Clearly not younger here unless something unexpected happens with Smith or Brooks

I think it's possible the Gophers could be better at a number of positions next year even if they might be a bit younger at them: WR, OL, and CB chief among them. I am worried about the lack of literally any proven commodities on the DL and at TE and most of all about the QB situation.

It's all in how you look at it. Glass half full or half empty.
Would think PJ would be a half full type of person, but apparently not if he keeps pushing the we'll be younger angle.


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Interesting point Swingman. I've always taken Fleck at his word that we will be younger next year, but included in "younger" for me is less experienced.

DT: We will be replacing Richardson and Jackson who have played a lot of football for Minnesota (Richardson more than Jackson) with some combination of OJ Smith and Royal Silver who have never played a down for Minnesota and Gary Moore who is seeing his first time on the field this year. There's a big downgrade in experience there. The one note here for me is I thought Steltler would be a factor this year and he simply hasn't been.

DE: We really just don't have much here. Hopefully they don't have to keep Coughlin here out of necessity and if he's out there it means that he was able to add size without losing athleticism. The other guys in contention to play at either spot are all young/inexperienced with the exception of Winston.


LB: We lose Celestin and top backup Poock while potentially moving Coughlin back to LB. Whoever replaces Celestin will be young in experience/snaps as an every down LB

CB: I think Fleck/Smith hope for us to have either the Florida transfer Williamson or one of the 2018 recruits step up at CB. We don't lose anyone here, but there still won't be much game experience returning given the injuries to Thomas/Craighton

S: McGee and to a less extent Ayinde have played the most football of anyone in the secondary and we lose both. Nobody returning will have a similar amount of game experience.

On Offense:

OL: Lose 2 of the top 6 guys on the OL and those Sr's will be replaced by guys with little to no actual game reps. I find it interesting that Fleck seems to be targeting some JUCO OT's as you would think Greene is entrenched at LT and that Andries or Connelly would be the RT with the other being the swing tackle.

TE: Clearly younger and almost no game experience to speak of returning with the exception of Beebe who hasn't played much this season

WR: If Mark Williams builds on his game against Michigan State, maybe we won't be younger here. As it stands now, I'd expect someone who has played very little college football (Douglas, Autman-Bell, one of the recruits) to line up opposite Tyler Johnson.

QB: This could be someone who has never taken a snap or Demry could have about a little over a half season's worth of experience under his belt.

RB: Clearly not younger here unless something unexpected happens with Smith or Brooks

I think it's possible the Gophers could be better at a number of positions next year even if they might be a bit younger at them: WR, OL, and CB chief among them. I am worried about the lack of literally any proven commodities on the DL and at TE and most of all about the QB situation.

As GFBfan put it, half full or half empty. There have been many, many of examples in the past 3-4 years of Gophs players stepping up and becoming impact starters when they have the opportunity to do so. The young players who are starters or are getting ample playing time this year will be seasoned younger players next year, and seasoned veterans in 2019.
 

I think that when he refers to getting younger it's because of the talent gap of the 2017 class. I think he's expecting many 2018 recruits to be contributors immediately based on it being his first recruiting class at U of M that aren't MAC transfers and 2 week scrambles. I am sure he is expecting the high talent guys from 2016 and 2015 to still be contributing, but there may be a few from those classes that are playing now because there aren't better options but we could use an upgrade from a less experienced but maybe more talented incoming freshman. And there are probably some 2017 kids playing now out of necessity that might not see as much time next year.

This time last year I felt better about the team on the field and worse about the future. I had little faith that Claeys would replace the talent he and Kill had accumulated with better players. Maybe Claeys recruiting suffered because he knew he was a lame duck, but if he would have had some real high value recruits coming in (especially at QB) it would have been harder to part ways.
 



Swingman also posted how super experienced and talented we were coming into this year. Now the opposite. Said our team was filled with NFL’ers in July/August. The agenda has been clear for awhile now.
 

Swingman also posted how super experienced and talented we were coming into this year. Now the opposite. Said our team was filled with NFL’ers in July/August. The agenda has been clear for awhile now.

Um, might want to reread his OP...sounds pretty consistent to me.
 

For us to be younger next year PJ needs to change his philosophy once again play the true incoming freshman. The only places one could argue we'll be younger is defensive tackle and safety. All the other places we'll be older either by class or experience unless he plays true freshman, which it now pains him to do...he says.

Regarding Claeys and his recruiting...Billy Glasscock explained their recruiting philosophy in an hour long podcast. Claeys did not seek early commitments. He wanted to gather information on the guys, some who were late developers from a network of people the staff had relationships with over the last 15 years. Guys who were academically proven. Guys who matured after their junior year. Guys who fit their system. Guys who were not recruited by as many schools or ranked necessarily high by the services. Etc Etc He was doing it completely different than PJ or most others. Tracy is not a dumb guy. He led the Gophers to 9 wins. Minnesota hasn't been able to recruit well for 40 years. Listening to Glasscock their philosophy made sense for Minnesota and the relationships our staff had developed. To say Tracy's way wouldn't work was very premature. It was very well thought out...they had their candidates to acquire in December, January that's how they did it. They wanted as much information as possible. The momentum from the 9 win season and the bowl win would have certainly helped his process.

Obviously, PJ is a salesman and does it the conventional more comfortable way. He just picked up his highest rated recruit. If he can finish the class we'll have a very nice class. Does he have or can he find from an assistant the insight Tracy had to design an effective defense irregardless of who is playing? Won't matter who the Jimmy and Joe's are if we can't keep the other team from scoring like we were able to do versus Washington State down several missing key performers.
 

The previous staff's recruiting philosophy was to battle the Sun Belt Conference for players.
 

Regarding Claeys and his recruiting...Billy Glasscock explained their recruiting philosophy in an hour long podcast. Claeys did not seek early commitments. He wanted to gather information on the guys, some who were late developers from a network of people the staff had relationships with over the last 15 years. Guys who were academically proven. Guys who matured after their junior year. Guys who fit their system. Guys who were not recruited by as many schools or ranked necessarily high by the services. Etc Etc He was doing it completely different than PJ or most others. Tracy is not a dumb guy. He led the Gophers to 9 wins. Minnesota hasn't been able to recruit well for 40 years. Listening to Glasscock their philosophy made sense for Minnesota and the relationships our staff had developed. To say Tracy's way wouldn't work was very premature. It was very well thought out...they had their candidates to acquire in December, January that's how they did it. They wanted as much information as possible. The momentum from the 9 win season and the bowl win would have certainly helped his process..

And people say P.J. is full of B.S. I get it, many people don't like sales people. P.J. is a salesman, Claeys wasn't. Saying Claeys system of wait until the last minute, take who's left over that fits your system, might be a late bloomer and is willing to come here without being sold isn't a system, it's a joke, and if he had ever vocalized it out loud to Coyle he would deserve to be replaced on that basis alone. The last coach that dug into a counter intuitive recruiting philosophy was Doug Woog, he had a winning career record and still was shown the door largely because he was proven wrong.
 

The previous staff's recruiting philosophy was to battle the Sun Belt Conference for players.

We could describe it that way for sure. Michigan, Ohio State select players right? Minnesota is not in a position to select from the 4 stars unless on the rare occasion they are from Minnesota, right? So does it make sense, to do your homework, to select the guys who are the right fit for your program but rated by someone else lower that you visualize their performance will be higher for you. If did your homework and you trusted your evaluation skills..I don't think you can completely dismiss the philosophy as folly. It's all about the right fits to what you are doing...not the highest rated 3 star left over.
 

I see big changes on defense, not as much on offense.

We'll see a new defensive line next season, partly with older transfers and partly with this year's freshmen. Not all young, but new and inexperienced. I expect to see a lot of youth in the secondary, partly to replace departing players, partly because we may have a few guys coming back from injury. The linebackers are the only stable group.

On offense it seems to be normal attrition. Quarterback is the big key; will Morgan or Armstrong be playing? A freshman QB makes everybody look young. If Croft can take hold of the job, maybe the offense finally takes a step forward.
 

And people say P.J. is full of B.S. I get it, many people don't like sales people. P.J. is a salesman, Claeys wasn't. Saying Claeys system of wait until the last minute, take who's left over that fits your system, might be a late bloomer and is willing to come here without being sold isn't a system, it's a joke, and if he had ever vocalized it out loud to Coyle he would deserve to be replaced on that basis alone. The last coach that dug into a counter intuitive recruiting philosophy was Doug Woog, he had a winning career record and still was shown the door largely because he was proven wrong.

#1 Nice open mind thinking.
#2 "Obviously, PJ is a salesman and does it the conventional more comfortable way." From that you get..."I get it, many people don't like sales people."
#3 I hear you at the parent meetings now...It was good enough for me when I was going to school...it's good enough for these kids too. I vote no.
Can you open your mind up enough to grasp that different people have different talents and can accomplish things a different way than someone else might? Maybe the only person it works for is Tracy, maybe it doesn't work for him either. We didn't get a chance to find out. PJ is promising us a national championship and scoffing at bowl eligibility at 3 and 3. PJ is promising us the future because he presently can.
#4 All I was really saying is Tracy's philosophy was to evaluate and select his guys at the end of the recruiting cycle. PJ having 23 commits in September is a different philosophy than Tracy who was waiting by his choice.
#5 I am eventually expecting PJ to win 9 games doing it his way. I just don't think there only has to be one way.
 

And people say P.J. is full of B.S. I get it, many people don't like sales people. P.J. is a salesman, Claeys wasn't. Saying Claeys system of wait until the last minute, take who's left over that fits your system, might be a late bloomer and is willing to come here without being sold isn't a system, it's a joke, and if he had ever vocalized it out loud to Coyle he would deserve to be replaced on that basis alone. The last coach that dug into a counter intuitive recruiting philosophy was Doug Woog, he had a winning career record and still was shown the door largely because he was proven wrong.

Did you listen to the podcast with Billy G? Their system was not even close to what you are saying here.
You got one thing right, Claeys was not a salesman.
They did what worked for them. The win totals they posted are a testament to that. They were not at the pinnacle yet but were on their way. We'll never know if they could have won a BIG title or even a West title. You may think the program was going to decline, I think the program would have continued to improve.
Doesn't matter as PJ is the one running things now. He has his own methods. We will get to see if he can take this program to new heights and win a BIG or West title. I believe all of us here are hopeful he can. He's also going to be given time to do that. I may not like everything that goes on with him, but I believe he will have success here.
Ski-U-Mah


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We could describe it that way for sure. Michigan, Ohio State select players right? Minnesota is not in a position to select from the 4 stars unless on the rare occasion they are from Minnesota, right? So does it make sense, to do your homework, to select the guys who are the right fit for your program but rated by someone else lower that you visualize their performance will be higher for you. If did your homework and you trusted your evaluation skills..I don't think you can completely dismiss the philosophy as folly. It's all about the right fits to what you are doing...not the highest rated 3 star left over.

I would rather have the current staff's recruiting philosophy over the last staff. Regardless of fit the previous staff admitted what recruiting battles they did not want to get in and they weren't talking about the Ohio States and Michigans of the world.
 

Swingman also posted how super experienced and talented we were coming into this year. Now the opposite. Said our team was filled with NFL’ers in July/August. The agenda has been clear for awhile now.

As has your agenda.
 





Did you listen to the podcast with Billy G? Their system was not even close to what you are saying here.
You got one thing right, Claeys was not a salesman.
They did what worked for them. The win totals they posted are a testament to that. They were not at the pinnacle yet but were on their way. We'll never know if they could have won a BIG title or even a West title. You may think the program was going to decline, I think the program would have continued to improve.
Doesn't matter as PJ is the one running things now. He has his own methods. We will get to see if he can take this program to new heights and win a BIG or West title. I believe all of us here are hopeful he can. He's also going to be given time to do that. I may not like everything that goes on with him, but I believe he will have success here.
Ski-U-Mah
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The win totals were a testament to the recruiting and selling of our program by Jerry Kill to the kids that committed here in a conventional and comfortable way. The 2016 class started early and strong with players like Carter Coughlin who was then empowered to go HELP sell the program to other recruits. You and 60's can't seem to grasp that the concept of selling someone on coming here is a necessary requirement for a successful coach. NO ONE doesn't sell and has success. That isn't closed minded it's reality. Ohio State sells to get kids away from Alabama and Michigan and vice versa. Saying we can't compete with Ohio State for recruits is obvious and evident but not an excuse to NOT sell our program against programs 15-70 to make sure we get the best possible talent. Can you have success being an average sales person and a great evaluator of talent yes. Kill and Claeys showed a consistent ability to find a 2* or 3* kid that was a diamond in the rough, but if you identify a diamond, you don't leave it laying on the goddamn ground hoping 50 other teams step over it and don't spot it too. You pick it up and shove it in your pocket and sell it on the fact that you were the one that saw it's potential.
 

Sure thing weather. Keep telling yourself a lie.

I’m sorry I don’t live in your fantasy world where last years 9 wins were Elite! And where Tracy is long term answer as a P5 head coach, even though no other AD would agree with you.
 




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