STrib: P.J. Fleck choosing culture over results in 'Year Zero' for Gophers

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Change from Kill to Claeys was disastrous across the program.
Received tons of negative press. The image of what it meant to be a Gopher football player was broadcast every night on the news.
Any institutional control from a head coaching position was lost.
When crisis time was coming, the head coach was at a Bowl game activities.
Coach then went on to say some horrible comments which women (only about 50% of the population) found strongly offensive.

Talk about a PR downward spiral.
 

GFBfan said:
No maybe about it. He talks about it more.
Changing the _________ use whatever word you want, implies that what was happening before was bad. That was not the case here. Yes there was an incident, but outside of those select few who are no longer here, the players on the team that PJ inherited were doing the right things off the field and were performing at an above average level on it. He didn't need to tear it all down and start over, it only needed some minor adjustments to improve on what was already established. That is my issue with it all. I feel he can get us to the next level within the conference (I also felt that Kill/Claeys were going to do that as well) I just don't feel like we have to go back to rock bottom and then start to build it back up all over again.
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I'm not sure where I stand on all this, but you should know that there were folks within the U who strongly believed the culture surrounding the football team was very flawed when it came to women. At least a year before the "big incident", one department at the U met with Kill to share their concerns about how players were treating women. I have no idea if these were bona fide concerns, but certain people believed strongly about this. Just thought I'd send a reminder.
 

DoubleAlum said:
I'm not sure where I stand on all this, but you should know that there were folks within the U who strongly believed the culture surrounding the football team was very flawed when it came to women. At least a year before the "big incident", one department at the U met with Kill to share their concerns about how players were treating women. I have no idea if these were bona fide concerns, but certain people believed strongly about this. Just thought I'd send a reminder.
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This is what's wrong with the old-fashioned males on this site. Many of them seem to feel that women shouldn't be able to be treated well by football players if the team is winning.

This ongoing trend which eventually lead to nationwide embarrassment is what needed to stop first. Stop that first. Start treating women well, THEN worry about winning games.
 

I don't think Fleck can bluff and lie his way, buy time and get lucky like he did in his last tenure. He captured a perfect storm. Plus, I think people are seeing through his used car salesman act now that he's rapidly loosing his looks.
 

Plus, I think people are seeing through his used car salesman act now that he's rapidly loosing his looks.

Ha!
 


DoubleAlum said:
I'm not sure where I stand on all this, but you should know that there were folks within the U who strongly believed the culture surrounding the football team was very flawed when it came to women. At least a year before the "big incident", one department at the U met with Kill to share their concerns about how players were treating women. I have no idea if these were bona fide concerns, but certain people believed strongly about this. Just thought I'd send a reminder.
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Knew about that.
There is no place for the mistreatment of anyone.
The "bad apples" were removed and rightfully so. Unfortunately with that entire mess, some other players got lumped in and they shouldn't have been. It wasn't handled well by admin and was turned into a major mess because of it.
The team GPA/APR has been exceptional for many years. That is due to a good "culture"
The team has been doing community service projects for many years as well, again because of the good "culture"
The team was very close and really were playing for each other all year and that especially showed in the bowl game. Again because of good "culture"
 

GFBfan said:
Changing the _________ use whatever word you want, implies that what was happening before was bad.
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It doesn't imply it was bad. It implies it's not good enough.

There's a pretty big difference between the two, unless you're someone who's satisfied with the last 50 years and doesn't care about playing for Big Ten titles and maybe even national titles some day....

Saying you want to change from being a B student doesn't mean getting Bs is bad. It's just a different set of expectations.
 

GFBfan said:
My attitude towards Gopher Football hasn't changed one bit. I support and want to see great success out of our team. Always have always will. Don't think that is a poor decision.
I don't have to like everything and there were things Kill/Claeys did that I didn't like as well. Same could be said going back to Brewster, Mason, Wacker, Gutey, Holtz, Salem, and Stoll.

So which change are we suppose to like?
When we changed from Kill to Claeys, why was that not a good change?
Now we have changed from Claeys to Fleck and this one is a good change, why is it a better one than the previous?

Change is not always better. Coke to New Coke, Obama to Trump:p, Memorial Stadium to Metrodome.
Sometimes it is good. Metrodome to TCF, Obama to Trump :p(depends on your political view), Pong to Nintendo

Change for Change's sake doesn't always equal progress.
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A lot of changes that seem bad at first are actually for the better when seen in the rear view mirror. If your girlfriend dumped you years ago, you likely felt like crap at the time, but have the hindsight and context to see that you are better off now. If you were laid off from a job, that's not good either. But years down the line, you may have found a better career path you would have never seen because you were at that old job.

Change is growth and change takes time. But if you're scared when Fleck says "change the culture" he really means burn the old one to the ground, then I think you're mistaken. As a leader, if one of his players doesn't act in a way that reflects positively on the University or the program, Fleck will hold them accountable. Devers, Croft, and McGhee all are examples of that. If he were to make exceptions for some just to win games, he would be a hypocrite and an ineffective leader.

GH likes to get hyper critical about changes to the program, but what we've seen so far from Fleck feels to me like the right path to sustained wins down the road.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk
 

GFBfan said:
Knew about that.
There is no place for the mistreatment of anyone.
The "bad apples" were removed and rightfully so. Unfortunately with that entire mess, some other players got lumped in and they shouldn't have been. It wasn't handled well by admin and was turned into a major mess because of it.
The team GPA/APR has been exceptional for many years. That is due to a good "culture"
The team has been doing community service projects for many years as well, again because of the good "culture"
The team was very close and really were playing for each other all year and that especially showed in the bowl game. Again because of good "culture"
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You think just tossing out the couple bad apples improves the culture, but it's the culture that needs to change so there are fewer bad apples.
 



jonnyganas said:
A lot of changes that seem bad at first are actually for the better when seen in the rear view mirror. If your girlfriend dumped you years ago, you likely felt like crap at the time, but have the hindsight and context to see that you are better off now. If you were laid off from a job, that's not good either. But years down the line, you may have found a better career path you would have never seen because you were at that old job.

Change is growth and change takes time. But if you're scared when Fleck says "change the culture" he really means burn the old one to the ground, then I think you're mistaken. As a leader, if one of his players doesn't act in a way that reflects positively on the University or the program, Fleck will hold them accountable. Devers, Croft, and McGhee all are examples of that. If he were to make exceptions for some just to win games, he would be a hypocrite and an ineffective leader.

GH likes to get hyper critical about changes to the program, but what we've seen so far from Fleck feels to me like the right path to sustained wins down the road.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk
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The reverse can also be said. Some changes you find out years down the line weren't so good. It does work both ways.

I applaud PJ for holding players accountable. It is the right thing to do and games are not more important than what they do off the field.

To both you and JV.
PJ's change in "culture" took a team with a high GPA and has maintained it at the same high qualilty.
So far on the field, that has not been the case.

A student who wants to improve on a B average, doesn't first drop the average to a C or D. They work hard and do all that they can to move that B up to a B+ or an A.
 

GFBfan said:
The reverse can also be said. Some changes you find out years down the line weren't so good. It does work both ways.

I applaud PJ for holding players accountable. It is the right thing to do and games are not more important than what they do off the field.

To both you and JV.
PJ's change in "culture" took a team with a high GPA and has maintained it at the same high qualilty.
So far on the field, that has not been the case.

A student who wants to improve on a B average, doesn't first drop the average to a C or D. They work hard and do all that they can to move that B up to a B+ or an A.
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Culture has nothing to do with them not being that good on the field. The team is filled with players who were not highly regarded and were recruited for an entirely different system. Nearly everyone told you the Gophers would not be very good this year due to a multitude of reasons and yet some on GH stuck their heads in the sand and expected no drop off. Injuries and suspensions have led to the team being slightly worse than expected.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Culture has nothing to do with them not being that good on the field. The team is filled with players who were not highly regarded and were recruited for an entirely different system. Nearly everyone told you the Gophers would not be very good this year due to a multitude of reasons and yet some on GH stuck their heads in the sand and expected no drop off. Injuries and suspensions have led to the team being slightly worse than expected.
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Didn't PJ say they were good for his system, that the team was in a better place to make the change in systems?
There were just as many people who thought the Gophers would be as good or better and I'm not just talking about on here. Go back and look at that thread.

Injuries/suspensions has led the team to be worse than expected, so far this season. Season is not over, so there is still hope that a small turnaround can happen and we get more wins to be bowl eligible. In prior years, that was not an excuse that would fly on this site, but now it is being used regularly.

Speaking of injuries, wasn't something said about correcting injuries?
 




GFBfan said:
Didn't PJ say they were good for his system, that the team was in a better place to make the change in systems?
There were just as many people who thought the Gophers would be as good or better and I'm not just talking about on here. Go back and look at that thread.

Injuries/suspensions has led the team to be worse than expected, so far this season. Season is not over, so there is still hope that a small turnaround can happen and we get more wins to be bowl eligible. In prior years, that was not an excuse that would fly on this site, but now it is being used regularly.

Speaking of injuries, wasn't something said about correcting injuries?
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paraphrased........22, or whatever, injuries is unbelievable and unacceptable; the new strength guy is elite and will better prepare them under his leadership and program
 

GFBfan said:
Didn't PJ say they were good for his system, that the team was in a better place to make the change in systems?
There were just as many people who thought the Gophers would be as good or better and I'm not just talking about on here. Go back and look at that thread.

Injuries/suspensions has led the team to be worse than expected, so far this season. Season is not over, so there is still hope that a small turnaround can happen and we get more wins to be bowl eligible. In prior years, that was not an excuse that would fly on this site, but now it is being used regularly.

Speaking of injuries, wasn't something said about correcting injuries?
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He did. For what it's worth...caught the Gopher Report on KFAN yesterday and Fleck used "year one". Also said he was excited to watch film after MSU game because they are "very close".
 

1. The analogy earlier about improving grades and changing culture doesn't make sense. Horribly analogy. Fleck isn't improving a culture. You don't improve yogurt culture while the yogurt is being made. You throw out what you have, grab new culture and begin the process from the start. If you are brewing beer, you don't modify the old yeast to change from an IPA to a American Lager. You throw out the old, and setup the process for brewing a lager with new yeast. Yes, some of the grains might be the same, but the yeast, temperatures, etc., it's all different.

2. Fleck did say year one yesterday on the Gopher report. Glad to hear that.

3. Many of the same people complaining about the change in culture expecting 9 - 12 wins are probably the same people complaining ten months ago that we shouldn't make a coaching change because it would be a step back under a new coach. (I'm not sure if that's irony or hypocriticality).
 

GFBfan said:
He didn't need to tear it all down and start over, it only needed some minor adjustments to improve on what was already established. That is my issue with it all.
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Maybe he didn't need to tear it all down or maybe he decided that is what is best for his vision of the program going forward. Not agreeing with him in that regard is understandable but stating "changing the culture" does not mean he is taking a shot at the previous one.
 

GFBfan said:
No maybe about it. He talks about it more.
Changing the _________ use whatever word you want, implies that what was happening before was bad. That was not the case here. Yes there was an incident, but outside of those select few who are no longer here, the players on the team that PJ inherited were doing the right things off the field and were performing at an above average level on it. He didn't need to tear it all down and start over, it only needed some minor adjustments to improve on what was already established. That is my issue with it all. I feel he can get us to the next level within the conference (I also felt that Kill/Claeys were going to do that as well) I just don't feel like we have to go back to rock bottom and then start to build it back up all over again.
Click to expand...

So anytime a coach comes in and wants to change things, that means the previous staff did a bad job? I don't see the problem with him wanting to do things his way.
 

Face The Facts said:
This is what's wrong with the old-fashioned males on this site. Many of them seem to feel that women shouldn't be able to be treated well by football players if the team is winning.

This ongoing trend which eventually lead to nationwide embarrassment is what needed to stop first. Stop that first. Start treating women well, THEN worry about winning games.
Click to expand...

You are such a strange creature.
 

Face The Facts said:
1. The analogy earlier about improving grades and changing culture doesn't make sense. Horribly analogy. Fleck isn't improving a culture. You don't improve yogurt culture while the yogurt is being made. You throw out what you have, grab new culture and begin the process from the start. If you are brewing beer, you don't modify the old yeast to change from an IPA to a American Lager. You throw out the old, and setup the process for brewing a lager with new yeast. Yes, some of the grains might be the same, but the yeast, temperatures, etc., it's all different.

2. Fleck did say year one yesterday on the Gopher report. Glad to hear that.

3. Many of the same people complaining about the change in culture expecting 9 - 12 wins are probably the same people complaining ten months ago that we shouldn't make a coaching change because it would be a step back under a new coach. (I'm not sure if that's irony or hypocriticality).
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Oh, Face The Facts got banned. That's a shame.
 

GophersInIowa said:
So anytime a coach comes in and wants to change things, that means the previous staff did a bad job? I don't see the problem with him wanting to do things his way.
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This is what I do not understand either. The fact that Fleck wants to institute "his culture", his way of doing things, means nothing about the previous regime. It is neither an indictment, nor approval, of the prior one.
 


PMWinSTP said:
He did. For what it's worth...caught the Gopher Report on KFAN yesterday and Fleck used "year one". Also said he was excited to watch film after MSU game because they are "very close".
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Fleck also said on the show Tuesday that the first 6 games was like 2 seasons...
 


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