Izzo: If MSU protests social injustice, we will stand united

SelectionSunday

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Will be interesting to see how college basketball teams/schools across the country handle all this stuff. In terms of the National Anthem, I think players and coaches are much more visible in college basketball than they are in the NFL and college football. ... it only involves maybe 15-20 people.

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In high school (1980s) we were never on the floor for the anthem. A lot of this could be avoided if teams aren't on the field or court during that time.

Of course, that misses the point for both sides. The kneelers want to be on the court during the anthem to draw attention to their protest, and the standers want to be there to demonstrate their patriotism.

I do admire Izzo for seeing both sides trying to find a solution that works for everybody on his team. I'll be interested to see what that is.
 

A lot of this could be avoided if teams aren't on the field or court during that time.

I'm starting to think that's the way to go. I'm a firm believer that the Anthem should always be part of the pregame at sporting events, but I don't need the teams on the floor/field. The Anthem officially has been turned into a circus, and that's not what it should be.
 

I personally think its completely ridiculous that NFL players choose this way to protest. Kneeling, sitting, standing, big frikkin deal. If a person really wants to make change get off your ars, get involved in the community, develop opportunities to create genuine open dialogue, write a blog and invite your fans to participate/comment. Nearly everyone of these dumn**** NFL players drives their Lexus, Infinti, etc. car back to their million dollars homes after games and between practices and puts absolutely no effort into social injustice other than the silly symbolic act on the field. If Izzo wants to perpetuate this on campus, go for it. Seems a more appropriate response would be for the coach to take the position that the team will stand together by doing this service in the community, take part in this dialogue on campus, etc. (arent college campuses supose to be the bastion of open dialogue and forward thinking). Izzos response is the easy way out. We'll do it together! Big whoop-de-do. Tell the jackwagons players that want to kneel at a game to take a real class that involves the research and writing of a thought provoking paper on social injustice ideas and solutions.
 

I personally think its completely ridiculous that NFL players choose this way to protest. Kneeling, sitting, standing, big frikkin deal. If a person really wants to make change get off your ars, get involved in the community, develop opportunities to create genuine open dialogue, write a blog and invite your fans to participate/comment. Nearly everyone of these dumn**** NFL players drives their Lexus, Infinti, etc. car back to their million dollars homes after games and between practices and puts absolutely no effort into social injustice other than the silly symbolic act on the field. If Izzo wants to perpetuate this on campus, go for it. Seems a more appropriate response would be for the coach to take the position that the team will stand together by doing this service in the community, take part in this dialogue on campus, etc. (arent college campuses supose to be the bastion of open dialogue and forward thinking). Izzos response is the easy way out. We'll do it together! Big whoop-de-do. Tell the jackwagons players that want to kneel at a game to take a real class that involves the research and writing of a thought provoking paper on social injustice ideas and solutions.

In my humble opinion, in the case of the NFL it is a workplace event. The players don't own their uniforms, the stadium or the field. They can be fired. College is a bit different in that they are not paid (well maybe they are in Louisville) but they still do not own the venue so discipline can still occur. Izzo wants to recruit so he will be a coddler.
 


I personally think its completely ridiculous that NFL players choose this way to protest. Kneeling, sitting, standing, big frikkin deal. If a person really wants to make change get off your ars, get involved in the community, develop opportunities to create genuine open dialogue, write a blog and invite your fans to participate/comment. Nearly everyone of these dumn**** NFL players drives their Lexus, Infinti, etc. car back to their million dollars homes after games and between practices and puts absolutely no effort into social injustice other than the silly symbolic act on the field. If Izzo wants to perpetuate this on campus, go for it. Seems a more appropriate response would be for the coach to take the position that the team will stand together by doing this service in the community, take part in this dialogue on campus, etc. (arent college campuses supose to be the bastion of open dialogue and forward thinking). Izzos response is the easy way out. We'll do it together! Big whoop-de-do. Tell the jackwagons players that want to kneel at a game to take a real class that involves the research and writing of a thought provoking paper on social injustice ideas and solutions.


What is the starred-out word in red above? Wait, I don't want to know. Did I accidentally land on a Gopher-Stormfront site?

I personally think that people shouldn't write -- "I personally think..." The I and the personally are redundant and the "think" is implied (okay I'll take that back, reading your comment isn't direct evidence of thinking so it may offer some value you here).

What information informs your post? Do you have survey information about NFL players -- or are you just making this up? When you write that players should "take a real class," are you suggesting that MSU players don't take real classes. I'd guess that this is sourced to your resourceful (or hateful) imagination, but if you are a scholar on the subject, please share the evidence.

Pro tip -- if you are going to be righteous about social justice -- or whatever it is you are trying to be righteous about -- don't call others jackwagons or dum n-words. And if you are going to encourage someone to take a "real class," you might start by learnin' some writin' and spellin' your own self.
 

What is the starred-out word in red above? Wait, I don't want to know. Did I accidentally land on a Gopher-Stormfront site?

I personally think that people shouldn't write -- "I personally think..." The I and the personally are redundant and the "think" is implied (okay I'll take that back, reading your comment isn't direct evidence of thinking so it may offer some value you here).

What information informs your post? Do you have survey information about NFL players -- or are you just making this up? When you write that players should "take a real class," are you suggesting that MSU players don't take real classes. I'd guess that this is sourced to your resourceful (or hateful) imagination, but if you are a scholar on the subject, please share the evidence.

Pro tip -- if you are going to be righteous about social justice -- or whatever it is you are trying to be righteous about -- don't call others jackwagons or dum n-words. And if you are going to encourage someone to take a "real class," you might start by learnin' some writin' and spellin' your own self.

I saw that too and I'm hopeful it was just a typo of "dumbass." B is right next to N on the keyboard after all. I also don't think it's right to insinuate that every player who kneels during the anthem is doing absolutely nothing else to fight for justice for black people in America. It's possible that players who kneel are also serving their communities.
 

I personally think its completely ridiculous that NFL players choose this way to protest. Kneeling, sitting, standing, big frikkin deal. If a person really wants to make change get off your ars, get involved in the community, develop opportunities to create genuine open dialogue, write a blog and invite your fans to participate/comment. Nearly everyone of these dumn**** NFL players drives their Lexus, Infinti, etc. car back to their million dollars homes after games and between practices and puts absolutely no effort into social injustice other than the silly symbolic act on the field. If Izzo wants to perpetuate this on campus, go for it. Seems a more appropriate response would be for the coach to take the position that the team will stand together by doing this service in the community, take part in this dialogue on campus, etc. (arent college campuses supose to be the bastion of open dialogue and forward thinking). Izzos response is the easy way out. We'll do it together! Big whoop-de-do. Tell the jackwagons players that want to kneel at a game to take a real class that involves the research and writing of a thought provoking paper on social injustice ideas and solutions.

Making a lot of assumptions, aren't you? Do you know the students aren't taking real classes, writing papers on social injustice or helping in their community? Though I have no proof, I think more than a few of them probably do. I do know a lot of pro athletes help out in their communities when they can. I wish they all would stand for the anthem but think I understand why some are doing ithe knee thing. Just think it's dangerous to paint everyone with the same broad brush as not doing anything except taking a knee when I don't think that is the case with all.
 

I personally think its completely ridiculous that NFL players choose this way to protest. Kneeling, sitting, standing, big frikkin deal. If a person really wants to make change get off your ars, get involved in the community, develop opportunities to create genuine open dialogue, write a blog and invite your fans to participate/comment. Nearly everyone of these dumn**** NFL players drives their Lexus, Infinti, etc. car back to their million dollars homes after games and between practices and puts absolutely no effort into social injustice other than the silly symbolic act on the field. If Izzo wants to perpetuate this on campus, go for it. Seems a more appropriate response would be for the coach to take the position that the team will stand together by doing this service in the community, take part in this dialogue on campus, etc. (arent college campuses supose to be the bastion of open dialogue and forward thinking). Izzos response is the easy way out. We'll do it together! Big whoop-de-do. Tell the jackwagons players that want to kneel at a game to take a real class that involves the research and writing of a thought provoking paper on social injustice ideas and solutions.

Ignorant post. On another note, I'm curious what dumn**** is...
 



I am so sick of hearing people whine about anthem protests. Let them make their statement, or dont you like freedom?
 

I am so sick of hearing people whine about anthem protests. Let them make their statement, or dont you like freedom?

Yep! If snowflakes (I know I'm not using the term the way it was originally intended) like "watertown 1987 guy n" are so easily offended by a silent-non-disruptive protest it will continue. Guess when players will stop kneeling for the anthem... when people like watertown are no longer outraged or some positive change occurs that they are trying to bring attention to. Personally I hope for the latter but I tend to be cynical about cultural changes in short periods of time.

Now Watertown, The players are helping their communities. The Seahawks met with local law enforcement earlier this week. There are stories about these sort of meetings, or specific non-sports activities at least once per week. If you do not recognize how active these players are, you are being intentionally ignorant and not trying to listen.
 

Ok, so you don't like my assumptions (sometimes highly subscribed assumptions, even if they are presented as assumptions, are based on facts):
Assumption 1: The percentage of Americans volunteering has dwindled and is now at its lowest level in a decade. Last year the volunteer rate was 25.4 percent, or 62.6 million people, compared with 29 percent of the population in 2003, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. Volunteers under 24 years old account for 21.4 percent of all volunteers, while ages 25-44 are 24.8 percent, ages 45-64 are 29.4 percent and those over 65 account for 25.6 percent.
Assumption 2: Real classes. I don’t need to be a scholar on the subject. There is a boat load of analysis on a large portion of college athletes that major in studies which give them an increased chance for ongoing participation in the college sport vs. good jobs post grad. Case in point: North Carolina. I think we can safely assume this occurs at many other college sport programs. Furthermore, a 2013 NCAA report found that athletes who entered college in 2005 graduated at rates 18 percentage points lower than non-athletes, and black players lagged by 24 percentage points. I surmise those percentage points are NOT lower because they are taking "real" classes and just not able to graduate – it’s likely because education is taking a back seat to the sport. So I guess my assumptions aren’t sourced from hateful imagination, but rather – pretty well known facts.
Assumption 3: As for the cars that the players drive, if it’s in line with the typical millionaire, the top three makes of autos driven by millionaires in the U.S. is BMW, Mercedez-Benz and Lexus.
As for attacking an opinion based on spelling errors in a chat room, get over it.

Back to the main point. Izzo took the easy way out. It’s the best response that will be the least detriment to recruiting or impact on existing players. The college gives an athletic scholarship to perform on the court. If a player wants to take a social stand, Izzo should tell the player “I’m 100% behind you and I will do everything I can to help you find the appropriate venue in which to do it – the classroom, student class representation, community activism, community volunteerism, etc. and just do it in a way that reflects positively on the University – but when you’re on the court you focus on the game”. We’ve had this same discussion in management meetings at my company. The workplace is not the right place for trying to drive social change, discussing politics, or promoting religion (that IS assuming that that workplace is inclusive, accepting, etc.) Remember the backlash that Tim Tebow got for wearing his religion on his sleeve? and he wasn’t really even doing this on the field other than wearing a cross. I reiterate, if an NFL player is really interested in promoting social change then stop with the silly sideline symbolism and do something about it. I would challenge them to be like Jesse Owens…
Jesse entered the 1936 Olympics, which were held in Nazi Germany amidst the belief by Hitler that the Games would support his belief that the German "Aryan" people were the dominant race. Jesse had different plans, as he became the first American track & field athlete to win four gold medals in a single Olympiad. Throughout his life, he worked with youths, sharing of himself and the little material wealth that he had. Owens supported his young family with a variety of jobs. One was of special significance - playground director in Cleveland. It was his first step into a lifetime of working with underprivileged youth, which gave him his greatest satisfaction. After relocating to Chicago, he devoted much of his time to underprivileged youth as a board member and former director of the Chicago Boys' Club.
Owens.jpg
 

Ok, so you don't like my assumptions (sometimes highly subscribed assumptions, even if they are presented as assumptions, are based on facts):
Assumption 1: The percentage of Americans volunteering has dwindled and is now at its lowest level in a decade. Last year the volunteer rate was 25.4 percent, or 62.6 million people, compared with 29 percent of the population in 2003, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. Volunteers under 24 years old account for 21.4 percent of all volunteers, while ages 25-44 are 24.8 percent, ages 45-64 are 29.4 percent and those over 65 account for 25.6 percent.
Assumption 2: Real classes. I don’t need to be a scholar on the subject. There is a boat load of analysis on a large portion of college athletes that major in studies which give them an increased chance for ongoing participation in the college sport vs. good jobs post grad. Case in point: North Carolina. I think we can safely assume this occurs at many other college sport programs. Furthermore, a 2013 NCAA report found that athletes who entered college in 2005 graduated at rates 18 percentage points lower than non-athletes, and black players lagged by 24 percentage points. I surmise those percentage points are NOT lower because they are taking "real" classes and just not able to graduate – it’s likely because education is taking a back seat to the sport. So I guess my assumptions aren’t sourced from hateful imagination, but rather – pretty well known facts.
Assumption 3: As for the cars that the players drive, if it’s in line with the typical millionaire, the top three makes of autos driven by millionaires in the U.S. is BMW, Mercedez-Benz and Lexus.
As for attacking an opinion based on spelling errors in a chat room, get over it.

Back to the main point. Izzo took the easy way out. It’s the best response that will be the least detriment to recruiting or impact on existing players. The college gives an athletic scholarship to perform on the court. If a player wants to take a social stand, Izzo should tell the player “I’m 100% behind you and I will do everything I can to help you find the appropriate venue in which to do it – the classroom, student class representation, community activism, community volunteerism, etc. and just do it in a way that reflects positively on the University – but when you’re on the court you focus on the game”. We’ve had this same discussion in management meetings at my company. The workplace is not the right place for trying to drive social change, discussing politics, or promoting religion (that IS assuming that that workplace is inclusive, accepting, etc.) Remember the backlash that Tim Tebow got for wearing his religion on his sleeve? and he wasn’t really even doing this on the field other than wearing a cross. I reiterate, if an NFL player is really interested in promoting social change then stop with the silly sideline symbolism and do something about it. I would challenge them to be like Jesse Owens…
Jesse entered the 1936 Olympics, which were held in Nazi Germany amidst the belief by Hitler that the Games would support his belief that the German "Aryan" people were the dominant race. Jesse had different plans, as he became the first American track & field athlete to win four gold medals in a single Olympiad. Throughout his life, he worked with youths, sharing of himself and the little material wealth that he had. Owens supported his young family with a variety of jobs. One was of special significance - playground director in Cleveland. It was his first step into a lifetime of working with underprivileged youth, which gave him his greatest satisfaction. After relocating to Chicago, he devoted much of his time to underprivileged youth as a board member and former director of the Chicago Boys' Club.
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Who ever suggested Tebow should be fired for doing that? I don't doubt that some people were annoyed by it (I was one of them), but I don't recall anyone suggesting that he should lose his job solely for any religious displays or references to religion in interviews.
 



People's preferences for how others choose to voice concern / protest / call attention to perceived injustices are irrelevant. Period.
 

Who ever suggested Tebow should be fired for doing that? I don't doubt that some people were annoyed by it (I was one of them), but I don't recall anyone suggesting that he should lose his job solely for any religious displays or references to religion in interviews.

They suggested he get fired for not being a good quarterback.

Watertown, You have also assumed that athletes volunteer at the same rate as the general population. Also, I'm not sure meeting with police, firefighters and local leaders would be classified as volunteer work for the statistics you just mentioned. Unorganized community involvement will not be recognized as volunteer work.
 

Probably a good time for Watertown to stop posting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Who ever suggested Tebow should be fired for doing that? I don't doubt that some people were annoyed by it (I was one of them), but I don't recall anyone suggesting that he should lose his job solely for any religious displays or references to religion in interviews.

As far as I know, I never suggested anyone should be fired either. Where did this argument come from?
 


People's preferences for how others choose to voice concern / protest / call attention to perceived injustices are irrelevant. Period.

Sorry, no. That might sound really nice but I believe the reality is that every employer has the right determine conduct on the job that doesn't shed bad light on the company/hurt the relationship with their customer as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of the individual. I'm not a legal expert and don't claim to be but I've seen enough situations where employees cross lines and are let go. Now you may be suggesting that an individual can do anything they darn please outside of a ~ contractual situation (lets just call it that to encompass - employment, student athlete, NFL player). If you exclude that, I agree 100%. My position on Izzo's response is unchanged.
 

Sorry, no. That might sound really nice but I believe the reality is that every employer has the right determine conduct on the job that doesn't shed bad light on the company/hurt the relationship with their customer as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of the individual. I'm not a legal expert and don't claim to be but I've seen enough situations where employees cross lines and are let go. Now you may be suggesting that an individual can do anything they darn please outside of a ~ contractual situation (lets just call it that to encompass - employment, student athlete, NFL player). If you exclude that, I agree 100%. My position on Izzo's response is unchanged.

The problem the NFL (and likely college basketball as well as many other high-level sports) would run into is this: how would the rest of the team react if a player were actually fired? Let's say a player on the Seattle Seahawks doesn't stand for the anthem and is cut for it. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see Richard Sherman and Michael Bennett refuse to play if this occurred. Is that a situation that an owner really wants to put himself in? For a multitude of reasons it is in the best interests of every NFL owner (and college coach) to keep his star players happy. It's not just about keeping your customers happy, but also your employees. And in the world of college and pro sports it's not very easy just go hire/recruit someone who has the ability to do the job as well as those you let go. That's one of the reasons (in addition to the exposure players have) it makes sense for pro/college athletes to do the things they have to raise the issue.
 

Quote: "Watertown, You have also assumed that athletes volunteer at the same rate as the general population."
I didn't assume anything of the kind, the information was only presented to show that some generations volunteer at a rate that is less than others and provide a basis for further dialogue. If you have found statistics that provide the volunteer rates of professional sports players, please provide. I'm curious.

Quote "I'm not sure meeting with police, firefighters and local leaders would be classified as volunteer work for the statistics you just mentioned. Unorganized community involvement will not be recognized as volunteer work."

That is very true, but that is also likely true for the general population that on occasion takes part in parent teacher conference, city board meetings, civic meetings, etc. Now if you have statistics/information that suggest that NFL players in every city there is a NFL franchise are planning to meet with police and community leaders beyond the one anecdote - I'll eat my words and accept defeat at your hand. Your comment accentuates one of my points. My guess! is that several of the sports players that participate in the kneeling pound their chest in self congratulations and do nothing else to make a difference to drive real social change, unlike the multitude of sports and non sports individuals that we could all come up that have volunteered their time and manage to do it when they aren't at their job. I am enjoying the discussion. To tie this back to Izzo's comments - ... he should take the position of encouraging the players to get involved, not taking the easy road because its easy.
 

The problem the NFL (and likely college basketball as well as many other high-level sports) would run into is this: how would the rest of the team react if a player were actually fired? Let's say a player on the Seattle Seahawks doesn't stand for the anthem and is cut for it. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see Richard Sherman and Michael Bennett refuse to play if this occurred. Is that a situation that an owner really wants to put himself in? For a multitude of reasons it is in the best interests of every NFL owner (and college coach) to keep his star players happy. It's not just about keeping your customers happy, but also your employees. And in the world of college and pro sports it's not very easy just go hire/recruit someone who has the ability to do the job as well as those you let go. That's one of the reasons (in addition to the exposure players have) it makes sense for pro/college athletes to do the things they have to raise the issue.

Excellent point!
 

Quote: "Watertown, You have also assumed that athletes volunteer at the same rate as the general population."
I didn't assume anything of the kind, the information was only presented to show that some generations volunteer at a rate that is less than others and provide a basis for further dialogue. If you have found statistics that provide the volunteer rates of professional sports players, please provide. I'm curious.

Quote "I'm not sure meeting with police, firefighters and local leaders would be classified as volunteer work for the statistics you just mentioned. Unorganized community involvement will not be recognized as volunteer work."

That is very true, but that is also likely true for the general population that on occasion takes part in parent teacher conference, city board meetings, civic meetings, etc. Now if you have statistics/information that suggest that NFL players in every city there is a NFL franchise are planning to meet with police and community leaders beyond the one anecdote - I'll eat my words and accept defeat at your hand. Your comment accentuates one of my points. My guess! is that several of the sports players that participate in the kneeling pound their chest in self congratulations and do nothing else to make a difference to drive real social change, unlike the multitude of sports and non sports individuals that we could all come up that have volunteered their time and manage to do it when they aren't at their job. I am enjoying the discussion. To tie this back to Izzo's comments - ... he should take the position of encouraging the players to get involved, not taking the easy road because its easy.

My bigger point was that you were making assumptions about specific players (and you acknowledged that you made those assumptions) without really know any of them. that is my bigger frustration. You are very quick to judge. Being a christian myself (and I'm assuming you're one based on your Tebow comment) I hesitate to judge other people especially when I don't know them.
 

Sorry, no. That might sound really nice but I believe the reality is that every employer has the right determine conduct on the job that doesn't shed bad light on the company/hurt the relationship with their customer as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of the individual. I'm not a legal expert and don't claim to be but I've seen enough situations where employees cross lines and are let go. Now you may be suggesting that an individual can do anything they darn please outside of a ~ contractual situation (lets just call it that to encompass - employment, student athlete, NFL player). If you exclude that, I agree 100%. My position on Izzo's response is unchanged.

I did not say there wouldn't be consequences. Obviously there already have been with Kaepernick being ostracized by the NFL. I understand private entities have the ability to punish individuals for subversive behavior - which is more a reflection of the weakness of that organizations moral standing than on the person subverting it. My main point is that regardless of consequences, those protesting have zero obligation to pay mind to detractors. They owe you nothing. There would not have been a civil rights movement if MLK paid attention to opinion poling (he had around 30% approval rating at the time of march on Selma).
 

Let's follow the lead of the NFL and destroy the popularity of Men's college basketball!!!!! People want to sit down and watch a good game by the school that they love and not hear about the injustices of players receiving cars, money and/or hookers to attend a certain university!! SJWs unite!!!!! Let's kneel against the faux-student athletes who are getting free (shiiiit)e and taking liberties against other students because of their entitlement!!!
 




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