PMac: I think P.J. Fleck will experience a lot of success at the U...more than Kill

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RolGnav said:
As I recall, everyone knew we were full on rebuild when Kill got here. I don't recall people calling for his head in his first or second year or even third. The only time people started calling for his head was when his seizures got pretty bad. And with Fleck, no one is calling for his head either, but yes a lot of fans and people are frustrated because this was not a rebuild. It was a 9 win team. 9!!! Now we're losing to teams that won 1 or 2 B10 games only last year.
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I'm also very frustrated. I expected 7-9 wins, and stupidly I even thought 10 or more were possible with this schedule. That said, I've adjusted my expectations based on several things I've since realized:

1) I understimated how difficult the switch to a zone blocking scheme would be for the OL -- especially the JUCO's. They're struggling.
2) I overestimated Rhoda's athletic ability and thought he'd run zone adequately. Maybe not as good as Mitch, but not so ineptly as he has.
3) I overestimated the talent returning in the DB core. Thought Shenault and Thomas would take huge steps forward, Durr would be healthy, and McGhee and Winfield would be playing.

Don't get me wrong: I lay some of the blame on the staff. I definitely think they've made tactical errors and would even go so far as to say the offensive staff has been badly outcoached in several games. Partly I think they're adjusting to B1G speed of play, but I also think they're being way too conservative and stubborn in wanting to run their schemes without the personnel. They don't have the QB to run zone read...so stop it. They don't have the OL to grind teams down to a pulp...so mix it up and finesse them. They don't have the WR's to get open on long-developing routes (or QB to get it there or OL to block it long enough against a good pass rush)...so stop. Team has had WAY more success with things we've done in the past: running stretch and jet sweep, throwing off play action, throwing quickly to the TE, etc.
 

RolGnav said:
As I recall, everyone knew we were full on rebuild when Kill got here. I don't recall people calling for his head in his first or second year or even third. The only time people started calling for his head was when his seizures got pretty bad. And with Fleck, no one is calling for his head either, but yes a lot of fans and people are frustrated because this was not a rebuild. It was a 9 win team. 9!!! Now we're losing to teams that won 1 or 2 B10 games only last year.
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This is not that team. Walk on turned desperate scholarship QB. Practically pulling people out of the stands to play defensive back due to the suspension purge and now injuries this year. Our WR experience was already lacking going into the year and now we have two promising young guys hurt, one for the year. The QB that had good potential to fit into this offense well decided he needed to use an herbal remedy and has to work his way back onto the team. Offensive line seems to have one guy get hurt and when he gets healthy, another goes down. Are there some questionable calls by the coaching staff at times? Yes, but given what they have to work with right now I will give them a pass. We do have talent on offense, but a lot of it can't reach full potential with the pieces around them falling apart and lacking consistency.
 

MGGopher said:
I'm also very frustrated. I expected 7-9 wins, and stupidly I even thought 10 or more were possible with this schedule. That said, I've adjusted my expectations based on several things I've since realized:

1) I understimated how difficult the switch to a zone blocking scheme would be for the OL -- especially the JUCO's. They're struggling.
2) I overestimated Rhoda's athletic ability and thought he'd run zone adequately. Maybe not as good as Mitch, but not so ineptly as he has.
3) I overestimated the talent returning in the DB core. Thought Shenault and Thomas would take huge steps forward, Durr would be healthy, and McGhee and Winfield would be playing.

Don't get me wrong: I lay some of the blame on the staff. I definitely think they've made tactical errors and would even go so far as to say the offensive staff has been badly outcoached in several games. Partly I think they're adjusting to B1G speed of play, but I also think they're being way too conservative and stubborn in wanting to run their schemes without the personnel. They don't have the QB to run zone read...so stop it. They don't have the OL to grind teams down to a pulp...so mix it up and finesse them. They don't have the WR's to get open on long-developing routes (or QB to get it there or OL to block it long enough against a good pass rush)...so stop. Team has had WAY more success with things we've done in the past: running stretch and jet sweep, throwing off play action, throwing quickly to the TE, etc.
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Very good points.
 

GopherSteak said:
I agree completely. In a year or two under cleays we are talking Brewster territory. He was a disaster waiting to happen and coyle knew that.
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Claeys held the team together when Kill missed games and then eventually had to retire. He was able to get his team to beat those in which they were favored and during the turmoil created at the end of last year, he was able to get the players to focus and play an outstanding defensive game in the Holiday Bowl. Yes, he had a hand in the turmoil, but he was not the only one. He also learned a whole lot about being a head coach during that year and would have used all that knowledge to take this program to new levels of success. That is my opinion.
He is no longer here, won't be able to find out who would have been correct in their assessment of what Claeys might have done had he been retained.
It is now PJ's squad. We will get to see what he is able to do with this team for the rest of this year and what he is able to build in the coming years. Very disappointing losses these past two weeks, in games that were winnable. If what we have seen out of the offense these first 5 games is all we're going to get, then we are in trouble in the years to come, unless our talent level improves to top 3 in the conference. I don't believe that is all that this offense can do and the staff will continue to improve and add new wrinkles to what they have already established.
 

GFBfan said:
Claeys held the team together when Kill missed games and then eventually had to retire. He was able to get his team to beat those in which they were favored and during the turmoil created at the end of last year, he was able to get the players to focus and play an outstanding defensive game in the Holiday Bowl. Yes, he had a hand in the turmoil, but he was not the only one. He also learned a whole lot about being a head coach during that year and would have used all that knowledge to take this program to new levels of success. That is my opinion.
He is no longer here, won't be able to find out who would have been correct in their assessment of what Claeys might have done had he been retained.
It is now PJ's squad. We will get to see what he is able to do with this team for the rest of this year and what he is able to build in the coming years. Very disappointing losses these past two weeks, in games that were winnable. If what we have seen out of the offense these first 5 games is all we're going to get, then we are in trouble in the years to come, unless our talent level improves to top 3 in the conference. I don't believe that is all that this offense can do and the staff will continue to improve and add new wrinkles to what they have already established.
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Can't believe the offense isn't setting the world on fire with a 2 star QB as the #2/#3 receiver on the roster and a quarterback who can't throw with two feet and turns the ball over consistently. Don't need top 3 talent but you need players who have speed and can throw the football.
 


Johnnyboy18 said:
Can't believe the offense isn't setting the world on fire with a 2 star QB as the #2/#3 receiver on the roster and a quarterback who can't throw with two feet and turns the ball over consistently. Don't need top 3 talent but you need players who have speed and can throw the football.
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A 2 star QB could very easily be a 3-star WR.

Agree we need a deep burner. Harry Van Dyne may fit that bill. I'm not sure we have anyone else in that big and fast type in the fold? How about just big? We have the All-Shrimp receiving Corps. We need a big physical guy or two. And a good TE.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Can't believe the offense isn't setting the world on fire with a 2 star QB as the #2/#3 receiver on the roster and a quarterback who can't throw with two feet and turns the ball over consistently. Don't need top 3 talent but you need players who have speed and can throw the football.
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wasn't talking talent, I was talking about the play calling/in game adjustments that have been made in those first 5 games.
But since you brought it up, who's the 2 star QB you are talking about that is now our #2 receiver?
 

GFBfan said:
wasn't talking talent, I was talking about the play calling/in game adjustments that have been made in those first 5 games.
But since you brought it up, who's the 2 star QB you are talking about that is now our #2 receiver?
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Williams is who I'm talking about with the injuries to Howard and Douglas. I'm sure he'll improve but he has no business being a top 3 receiver on a Big Ten team currently. Maybe Still should play more.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Williams is who I'm talking about with the injuries to Howard and Douglas. I'm sure he'll improve but he has no business being a top 3 receiver on a Big Ten team currently. Maybe Still should play more.
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Agree that Still should play more.
Williams was a 3 star on 247. C Davis at WMU was a 2 star, so maybe Simon can work some of those WR that haven't played yet into big time receivers for us.
 



Johnnyboy18 said:
Can't believe the offense isn't setting the world on fire with a 2 star QB as the #2/#3 receiver on the roster and a quarterback who can't throw with two feet and turns the ball over consistently. Don't need top 3 talent but you need players who have speed and can throw the football.
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Who's the 2 star QB you mentioned? Never mind, now I see. Btw, Tyler J of course was a QB too. Was Howard as well? Now Williams. So, what if every skill player is a former QB? Imagine the awesome razzle dazzle we could do!!!
 

It all comes down to a couple of things: Can Fleck bring in recruits who can A. play his system better than the current players on the roster, and B. play at an equal or higher level than the opponents. (and, can the coaching staff get those players to play at or above their potential?)

If Fleck can do that, there is hope. But, if Fleck cannot do that, it could get pretty bleak.

Like it or not, Kill and then Claeys had a system where the Gophers at least could be competitive without stocking the roster with 4* recruits. They knew the type of players they needed, and the coaches generally did a good job of getting those players to fit in the system.

The jury is still out on whether Fleck can in fact be the recruiter people claim he can be, AND whether his coaches can get the most of the talent on the roster.
 

ruppertflywheel said:
Never saw so many posters who have under 100 posts on this site that came out of the woodwork this past weekend and just blasted PJ.
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Come on ruppert, you've been around long enough to remember that happening with Mason, Brewster, Kill, and Claeys. This is nothing new just for Fleck.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Williams is who I'm talking about with the injuries to Howard and Douglas. I'm sure he'll improve but he has no business being a top 3 receiver on a Big Ten team currently. Maybe Still should play more.
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Agreed- would appear Still hasn't fully extracted himself from the doghouse as the plays I saw him in resulted in old blocks or good separation from defenders.


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