Fleck after Purdue loss

Some Day...Maybe

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 17, 2010
Messages
2,945
Reaction score
1,446
Points
113
https://youtu.be/5MiB9-7uNvQ

(Video) Where am I on the boat? As much on it as I was when PJ Fleck got hired. Best thing that's happened to Gopher football in my 45 years.

Obviously he's pissed in the video above, as he should be, probably pretty frustrated too.

This team couldn't afford the injury bug, hopefully guys are back next week. 2 starting O lineman out, 2 starting wide receivers out (possibly 3 if you count Autumn-Bell). 4 starting defensive backs out. That's tough even for a team with good depth. Got out coached today, but for those questioning if he's the right guy, put on your big boy pants and get some perspective.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Injuries are crushing the squad for sure. But what do you mean by the last sentence? Put on your big boy pants and get some perspective? I don't mean this negatively or snarky, being serious. You mean because of the injuries?
 

I thought PJ's guy was going to take care of all the injuries we have here. Was that more babble?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

I have perspective. He's been an offensive coordinator for one day as a professional. And I'm supposed to put total faith in his brilliant system? Nope.
 

One thing I don't get is how he says he has to be able to trust Croft to be able to play him but some how trusts Rhoda even with the turnovers. Sounds like double speak to me and doesn't seem to send a consistent message to the rest of the team.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 


One thing I don't get is how he says he has to be able to trust Croft to be able to play him but some how trusts Rhoda even with the turnovers. Sounds like double speak to me and doesn't seem to send a consistent message to the rest of the team.

I think it's pretty clear that as bad as Rhoda has been, Croft must play even worse in practice and/or some combination of breaking team rules/being a knucklehead.

Just play Morgan. This season is lost.
 

I will give credit to Fleck for taking responsibility for the loss.
 

I think it's pretty clear that as bad as Rhoda has been, Croft must play even worse in practice and/or some combination of breaking team rules/being a knucklehead.

Just play Morgan. This season is lost.

That isn't the impression I got from this but possible. I also wouldn't play what we think is the future qb of the program if we think the season is lost. Why risk injury or waste a redshirt for garbage time?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

That isn't the impression I got from this but possible. I also wouldn't play what we think is the future qb of the program if we think the season is lost. Why risk injury or waste a redshirt for garbage time?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Because every year they bring in a new QB to run the system for the future. When has that mattered? Isn't the 2 QB's they are recruiting much better and highly rated than Morgan? Wouldn't THEY be the one to redshirt "to save" for the future? Morgan is going to be the guy next year...lets get him experience unless by some weird unforeseen deal Croft sticks around or Green develops. I'm not sure either of those things happen. I get that you don't want to burn shirts but I'm not sure to not burn them is worth it either.
 



Because every year they bring in a new QB to run the system for the future. When has that mattered? Isn't the 2 QB's they are recruiting much better and highly rated than Morgan? Wouldn't THEY be the one to redshirt "to save" for the future? Morgan is going to be the guy next year...lets get him experience unless by some weird unforeseen deal Croft sticks around or Green develops. I'm not sure either of those things happen. I get that you don't want to burn shirts but I'm not sure to not burn them is worth it either.

^^^ Not sure what they are waiting for is they're writing off the season.
 

Because every year they bring in a new QB to run the system for the future. When has that mattered? Isn't the 2 QB's they are recruiting much better and highly rated than Morgan? Wouldn't THEY be the one to redshirt "to save" for the future? Morgan is going to be the guy next year...lets get him experience unless by some weird unforeseen deal Croft sticks around or Green develops. I'm not sure either of those things happen. I get that you don't want to burn shirts but I'm not sure to not burn them is worth it either.

Don't throw the freshman to the wolves. Let him get acclimated for a year first then see if he can handle it full time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

One thing I don't get is how he says he has to be able to trust Croft to be able to play him but some how trusts Rhoda even with the turnovers. Sounds like double speak to me and doesn't seem to send a consistent message to the rest of the team.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds like the QB problems we've had in the past, where the coaches favored one guy (Weber, Mitch) for reasons not easily understood over others: Marquis Gray, Philip Nelson, Streveler (I have no doubt he'd be doing better here than Rhoda, and Croft would also be doing better - both can run).
 

I have perspective. He's been an offensive coordinator for one day as a professional. And I'm supposed to put total faith in his brilliant system? Nope.

PJ was hired because he had one really good season in the MAC, building up from 1-11 over four years. But not all good MAC coaches make it at a higher level. With their present offense and QB, they'll be lucky to win one conference game (shades of Brewster, who didn't win any).
 



Fleck started a true freshman his first year at WMU. Tanner is a talented guy. One of he, Croft, Green transfers eventually and very likely after this season. I would assume Croft and/or Green. That leaves Tanner with zero playing experience going into 2018.
 

https://youtu.be/5MiB9-7uNvQ

(Video) Where am I on the boat? As much on it as I was when PJ Fleck got hired. Best thing that's happened to Gopher football in my 45 years.

Obviously he's pissed in the video above, as he should be, probably pretty frustrated too.

This team couldn't afford the injury bug, hopefully guys are back next week. 2 starting O lineman out, 2 starting wide receivers out (possibly 3 if you count Autumn-Bell). 4 starting defensive backs out. That's tough even for a team with good depth. Got out coached today, but for those questioning if he's the right guy, put on your big boy pants and get some perspective.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dude, Autman. Put your big boy pants on and spell it.
 

One thing I don't get is how he says he has to be able to trust Croft to be able to play him but some how trusts Rhoda even with the turnovers. Sounds like double speak to me and doesn't seem to send a consistent message to the rest of the team.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's pretty simple. Rhoda has fully bought into the system. This did not make him a better player, but he's doing what PJ wants him to do. He does not have the talent to play QB in the Big10, but his effort is good, he follows the rules, goes to class, doesn't question the coach when players that are not as talented are playing ahead of others for reasons that have nothing to do with performance on the football field. His culture. Very different way to say "My Way Or the Highway". All coaches do this (Cobb in the first few years with Kill is a recurring example on this site) PJ seems to have a much broader and more rigid definition of what his way is. There will be shake out, and I don't think PJ Fleck cares what it means this year. He's wiling to submarine the present to deliver his future vision. There are risks involved, but also rewards if it works. We'll know where we are in three or four or five years (depending on when/what you consider year one, and when the recruiting prowess kicks in).

With this in mind, Rhoda can average nearly a turnover in the redzone per game and not fear for his starting job, unless and until someone else can play better AND walk the same path as Rhoda in the rest of PJ's Culture. Right now, Rhoda is the starter because it serves the purpose of the greater goal - sending the huge message that if you don't do what I say, you will not play even if the guy in front of you can't get it done.

Honestly the sooner this message is received and the kids either buy-in 100%, leave, or revolt en masse, the sooner we can take the next step. At this point, PJ has made it clear he's not changing so it's up to the kids.
 

^^^ Not sure what they are waiting for is they're writing off the season.

If the only thing you look at is the play on the field, the decisions won't make sense. If you look at it from the overall perspective of buying into the "culture" that may be the clue to what is going on.
 

It's pretty simple. Rhoda has fully bought into the system. This did not make him a better player, but he's doing what PJ wants him to do. He does not have the talent to play QB in the Big10, but his effort is good, he follows the rules, goes to class, doesn't question the coach when players that are not as talented are playing ahead of others for reasons that have nothing to do with performance on the football field. His culture. Very different way to say "My Way Or the Highway". All coaches do this (Cobb in the first few years with Kill is a recurring example on this site) PJ seems to have a much broader and more rigid definition of what his way is. There will be shake out, and I don't think PJ Fleck cares what it means this year. He's wiling to submarine the present to deliver his future vision. There are risks involved, but also rewards if it works. We'll know where we are in three or four or five years (depending on when/what you consider year one, and when the recruiting prowess kicks in).

With this in mind, Rhoda can average nearly a turnover in the redzone per game and not fear for his starting job, unless and until someone else can play better AND walk the same path as Rhoda in the rest of PJ's Culture. Right now, Rhoda is the starter because it serves the purpose of the greater goal - sending the huge message that if you don't do what I say, you will not play even if the guy in front of you can't get it done.

Honestly the sooner this message is received and the kids either buy-in 100%, leave, or revolt en masse, the sooner we can take the next step. At this point, PJ has made it clear he's not changing so it's up to the kids.

My wife has a gift of an ornery streak (which serves her well) and I would say has always been the first line enforcer when things go south discipline-wise with the kids. Her issue is she over-admonishes and over-threatens consequences she cannot realistically or fails to deliver and oftentimes there are not equal punishments meted depending on exhaustion level, etc. Thusly while they may hate being yelled at there is no consisent bite behind the bark. At that point I have to intervene and attempt to mete out fair justice. It's a constant battle to be fair. From the outside looking in I see potential inconsistencies in Fleck's approach. It's reasonable to conclude some young guys will resent it if my suspicion is correct.
 

If the only thing you look at is the play on the field, the decisions won't make sense. If you look at it from the overall perspective of buying into the "culture" that may be the clue to what is going on.

You're right, it doesn't make sense to me (yet).
 

My wife has a gift of an ornery streak (which serves her well) and I would say has always been the first line enforcer when things go south discipline-wise with the kids. Her issue is she over-admonishes and over-threatens consequences she cannot realistically or fails to deliver and oftentimes there are not equal punishments meted depending on exhaustion level, etc. Thusly while they may hate being yelled at there is no consisent bite behind the bark. At that point I have to intervene and attempt to mete out fair justice. It's a constant battle to be fair. From the outside looking in I see potential inconsistencies in Fleck's approach. It's reasonable to conclude some young guys will resent it if my suspicion is correct.

I take it your wife doesn't read Gopherhole?
 

That isn't the impression I got from this but possible. I also wouldn't play what we think is the future qb of the program if we think the season is lost. Why risk injury or waste a redshirt for garbage time?

If we're recruiting as well as everyone says we shouldn't have to depend on a 5th-year Tanner Morgan as our QB. Play him now if Greem, Croft, and Rhoda can't cut it.
 

Honestly the sooner this message is received and the kids either buy-in 100%, leave, or revolt en masse, the sooner we can take the next step.

This applies to season ticket holders as well. If Fleck is so willing to throw in the season so he can make everyone buy into his schtick, I would have appreciated he was up front before season ticket renewals this past year. I could have taken a couple years off and probably been able to get better seats when and if things are better in two years.
 

I thought PJ's guy was going to take care of all the injuries we have here. Was that more babble?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Practice time injuries greatly reduced. There will always be game injuries.
 

Practice time injuries greatly reduced. There will always be game injuries.

I'm glad to know our practice injuries are greatly reduced. AW and DD may not find comfort in that, but I sure do. This new guy is making great progress from those quacks we had in previous years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

One thing I don't get is how he says he has to be able to trust Croft to be able to play him but some how trusts Rhoda even with the turnovers. Sounds like double speak to me and doesn't seem to send a consistent message to the rest of the team.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think he's saying I have to be able to trust the leader of this team/offense completely, both on and off the field. Needs to trust that he's turned a corner and not going to do the things he got suspended for, maybe partying hard and smoking dope. I think that's what he means by trust. That he's going to stick to the rules set forth that every other player in the program has to follow. Is he weak, or can he do the right things?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

If we're recruiting as well as everyone says we shouldn't have to depend on a 5th-year Tanner Morgan as our QB. Play him now if Greem, Croft, and Rhoda can't cut it.

Funny how people say Fleck doesn't care about winning games this year but they want to put Tanner Morgan in. Ya see, I would say Fleck is more competitive than most anyone on this board, and he's playing Rhoda because that's far and away his best option and best chance to win. I'm going to bet he knows more about building a winning college football program than Gopherhole posters.

To say a guy who made an NFL roster for 2 years at 5' 10" doesn't want to win is ludicrous. Saying he focuses on the how doesn't mean he doesn't want to win. Saying he won't sacrifice what he really wants in the future (a Big Ten championship) for what you really want now (wins) doesn't mean he doesn't want to win and isn't doing everything he can to win, it means he won't sacrifice or compromise what he is building by playing players who don't do what is necessary (in his program) to win championships. No Gopher coach in the last 45 years, to my knowledge, won a Championship of any kind at a D1 school before coming here. Fleck won a conference championship in the MAC, both regular season and playoff. No Gopher coach played in a Bowl Game as prestigious as the one Fleck's team did before coming here either. Am I wrong?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

OK, I'm a Badger fan, but lived in the Cities for a few years, so still follow the Gophers. This is the first of PJ's press conferences I have listened to (v read.) It may not be the norm. He reminds me a lot of Gary Andersen when he came to Wisconsin - not quite up to the big stage or the press scrutiny. He almost appears angry in the video; why are these people questioning MY decisions? That was very Andersen-like. Andersen never did get used to it, nor could he adapt to the fact that the playing field in Madison was not the same as Utah - you have to recruit kids that can get admitted and be successful at the school. Eventually (and luckily for us) he self-selected himself out of a job that was over his head. PJ is younger and smarter than Andersen, so maybe he will adapt more quickly.

As far as the content on the interview, it seems obvious that someone told him to quit throwing his players under the bus. To me, his "it's all my fault" did not ring sincere. At the risk of losing everyone, I will quote a Buckyville poster, as I think he expresses it better than I can:

Yeah he keeps saying "100% my fault" but gives NO examples or reasons why it's "his fault." What he really means is "I'll look and sound good if I keep saying it's my fault even when I know it's that little **** who threw the interception."

How to take the blame: "We had the wrong play call there and I didn't have the guys in place or anticipate the defense. We should have called time out and reset the offense to take advantage of Connor's strengths. It's my fault."

How NOT to take the blame: "We drove down the field and the guy threw an interception. 100% my fault."
 

I thought PJ's guy was going to take care of all the injuries we have here. Was that more babble?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You are correct. ..if I remember right a lot of posters said it was our terrible strength and conditioning coach and also our practices were too physical.
 

Funny how people say Fleck doesn't care about winning games this year but they want to put Tanner Morgan in. Ya see, I would say Fleck is more competitive than most anyone on this board, and he's playing Rhoda because that's far and away his best option and best chance to win. I'm going to bet he knows more about building a winning college football program than Gopherhole posters.

To say a guy who made an NFL roster for 2 years at 5' 10" doesn't want to win is ludicrous. Saying he focuses on the how doesn't mean he doesn't want to win. Saying he won't sacrifice what he really wants in the future (a Big Ten championship) for what you really want now (wins) doesn't mean he doesn't want to win and isn't doing everything he can to win, it means he won't sacrifice or compromise what he is building by playing players who don't do what is necessary (in his program) to win championships. No Gopher coach in the last 45 years, to my knowledge, won a Championship of any kind at a D1 school before coming here. Fleck won a conference championship in the MAC, both regular season and playoff. No Gopher coach played in a Bowl Game as prestigious as the one Fleck's team did before coming here either. Am I wrong?

Was this post directed at me? I don't think I ever said Fleck doesn't want to win. I'm just saying they might as well play Morgan and get him some experience.
 

Funny how people say Fleck doesn't care about winning games this year but they want to put Tanner Morgan in. Ya see, I would say Fleck is more competitive than most anyone on this board, and he's playing Rhoda because that's far and away his best option and best chance to win. I'm going to bet he knows more about building a winning college football program than Gopherhole posters.

To say a guy who made an NFL roster for 2 years at 5' 10" doesn't want to win is ludicrous. Saying he focuses on the how doesn't mean he doesn't want to win. Saying he won't sacrifice what he really wants in the future (a Big Ten championship) for what you really want now (wins) doesn't mean he doesn't want to win and isn't doing everything he can to win, it means he won't sacrifice or compromise what he is building by playing players who don't do what is necessary (in his program) to win championships. No Gopher coach in the last 45 years, to my knowledge, won a Championship of any kind at a D1 school before coming here. Fleck won a conference championship in the MAC, both regular season and playoff. No Gopher coach played in a Bowl Game as prestigious as the one Fleck's team did before coming here either. Am I wrong?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Holtz brought #6 Arkansas to the Sugar Bowl to play #2 Alabama, Jan. 1, 1980
 




Top Bottom