Go From 9 wins to this

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hello-world said:
We should still be better than we have been so far.
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I don't disagree with that. I'm just not surprised the offense still looks similar to the last few years when you consider the makeup of the roster.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I don't disagree with that. I'm just not surprised the offense still looks similar to the last few years when you consider the makeup of the roster.
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To me, it doesn't look similar, we're running a way slimmer playbook. Our run blocking is unimaginative, our play-calling is predictable, and our entire offense is built around a play that we are incapable of running. Why not just bring back the golden I? We would be way more successful with that than we are with this.

However, I'll openly admit that I don't like single-set formations and it's a personal preference.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
We wouldn’t have lost 2 starters? How? Again you’re thinking Green, who couldn’t win a high school starting job, would be better.
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Psst. . . Conor Rhoda split time at QB his senior season of HS with a much worse QB than Seth Green did (Ricardo Johnson III).

If that's a strike against Green being a capable Big 10 QB, you might not want to use it in the context of Conor Rhoda.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Psst. . . Conor Rhoda split time at QB his senior season of HS with a much worse QB than Seth Green did (Ricardo Johnson III).

If that's a strike against Green being a capable Big 10 QB, you might not want to use it in the context of Conor Rhoda.
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Ouch.
 

hello-world said:
You realize we're starting a guy that literally no division 1 program wanted right?
Green is big and fast. He fit well with Johnson's offense, yes he would have been better in that system.

We lost two o-line starters to transfer after Claeys was fired unless I'm mis-remembering their reason for transfer.
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Those transfers retired from football. Big and fast has nothing to do with being a good QB
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
Psst. . . Conor Rhoda split time at QB his senior season of HS with a much worse QB than Seth Green did (Ricardo Johnson III).

If that's a strike against Green being a capable Big 10 QB, you might not want to use it in the context of Conor Rhoda.
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Yeah and I’ve never said Rhoda was a good QB either. The offensive talent on this roster is offensive
 

Hmmmmm.... somehow we were 3-2 after 5 games last year on the way to 9 wins......wait the sky is falling!

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leadpipegopher said:
Sure we're losing. ..but the way our guys sprint between quarters. ..elite
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And how about when we get a turnover and run the ball over to PJ? Also elite.


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hello-world said:
I don't think anyone is calling for his head.
I've definitely been a pretty vocal critic so far, but it's mostly in response to people saying that he doesn't have the talent to compete.
He does, he is just facing a massive learning curve.
Brohm was able to step in a deliver a really creative offense/defense because he's been around so damn long, Fleck needs to learn how to do the same thing.
We hired young and this is what we get.
He needs to re-focus and figure out how to win, that could take some time.

But what really kills me right now is that he has no trust in his players. He says the ball is the program, but his players are the program.
He needs to trust them to handle complex playbooks and on-field reads.
He needs to trust our defense in man coverage (even though we got gashed in man late today).

It's not always going to be perfect in practice, if you wait for your team to run plays perfectly in practice then your playbook will never exceed 8 plays.
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Very well stated. I think everyone is on board with giving PJF time, but I think most would agree that this team should show some promise...some inkling of progression that makes you say "yeah with a guy here or a guy there things could turn around or with a little more seasoning this team could be decent, I'm excited for next year!" I don't see that, at least not now. It's ugly right now!
 



The only offensive difference between now and the Kill/Clayes era is the prior regime had an O-line capable of sustaining blocks against lesser opponents until a back could get through

The QB play is still well below average
 

JZsportswhiz said:
The only offensive difference between now and the Kill/Clayes era is the prior regime had an O-line capable of sustaining blocks against lesser opponents until a back could get through

The QB play is still well below average
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They also used a fullback. It matters if you want to run the ball.
 

Well, maybe we should just coach a few up like Kill and Clayes used to do. Wtf?
 

Something weird and fishy is going on. Fleck at WM, their offense certainly wasn't like this (or was it? Never watched a WM game). Kill at NI, had a decent offense too. So is our administration telling them "if you guys turn this into a passing offense, we will fire you!" ? I get that we may not have the right skillsets, like a good QB, but come on, this is ridiculous. RUTM, RUTM, QB option to RB up the middle. Even zero year Purdue Coach Brohm did flee flickers and trick plays, screens. You can't tell me Purdue has superior athletes? And don't talk about their veteran QBs, those guys weren't very good thus not even winning many B10 games. It's like the U of M just forbids any mistakes and they threaten to fire any coach that makes one, thus Kill, Claeys, and even Fleck seem to just want to do the safest plays. Has it worked out?? I'd rather we try to keep the defenses off balance than to play vanilla and still lose. Coach Kill was never an X's and O's guy, he was a motivator, with good defensive coaches. Fleck just doesn't seem like an X's and O's guy either, for sure he's a motivator, but the jury is out on the coordinators.

no excuse in losing to a fellow zero year coach, when you win the turn over battle. Throw in that this team was a 9 win team.. did we seriously lose all our athletes to be at ground zero? Even below Purdue? So frustrating.
 



hello-world said:
This is fair.
What's frustrating to me though is that Claeys saw this coming and had started planning for it (recruiting a good dual-threat QB).
Also if we had kept him our line would be so much better because we wouldn't have lost two starters.
Fleck is just kinda letting us get hit in the face by it, kept Rhoda, but couldn't keep our o-linemen.

Like, I agree that we're in a ****ty spot, but Fleck is doing absolutely nothing to make it better (random suspensions, ****ty play design, ****ing around with our special teams) etc.
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Who is this good dual threat qb you speak of?
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
Psst. . . Conor Rhoda split time at QB his senior season of HS with a much worse QB than Seth Green did (Ricardo Johnson III).

If that's a strike against Green being a capable Big 10 QB, you might not want to use it in the context of Conor Rhoda.
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Don't be bringing facts in here.
PJ just needs to coach him up more!!
 

I am just so frustrated. I thought Kill was upgrading our talent and that seems to be wrong. I thought we hired the up and coming best bet head coach. We seemed to have gotten the next MAC flash in the pan. Purdue seems to have passed us for at least this year. How the f does that happen when we were supposed to be in better shape. F the skunks to the east survived two coaching changes and bearly skipped a beat. Why can't we just get it done here?

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TruDat said:
I am just so frustrated. I thought Kill was upgrading our talent and that seems to be wrong. I thought we hired the up and coming best bet head coach. We seemed to have gotten the next MAC flash in the pan. Purdue seems to have passed us for at least this year. How the f does that happen when we were supposed to be in better shape. F the skunks to the east survived two coaching changes and bearly skipped a beat. Why can't we just get it done here?

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I'll address each of your points.

Kill upgraded from Brewster. Yes. I think so.
Yes, we did hire an up and coming coach, but he wasn't going to win a national title this year or next. (Claeys probably wasn't going to either, but you might disagree).
Five games, I would argue, is too early to call a coach a flash in the pan.
Purdue might have a better record this year. If you think overall their program is closer to winning a Big Ten title in 5 years, than you're optimistic for Purdue.
We aren't the skunks by any recent measure.
Maybe you are giving up hope to early.
 

RolGnav said:
Something weird and fishy is going on. Fleck at WM, their offense certainly wasn't like this (or was it? Never watched a WM game). Kill at NI, had a decent offense too. So is our administration telling them "if you guys turn this into a passing offense, we will fire you!" ? I get that we may not have the right skillsets, like a good QB, but come on, this is ridiculous. RUTM, RUTM, QB option to RB up the middle. Even zero year Purdue Coach Brohm did flee flickers and trick plays, screens. You can't tell me Purdue has superior athletes? And don't talk about their veteran QBs, those guys weren't very good thus not even winning many B10 games. It's like the U of M just forbids any mistakes and they threaten to fire any coach that makes one, thus Kill, Claeys, and even Fleck seem to just want to do the safest plays. Has it worked out?? I'd rather we try to keep the defenses off balance than to play vanilla and still lose. Coach Kill was never an X's and O's guy, he was a motivator, with good defensive coaches. Fleck just doesn't seem like an X's and O's guy either, for sure he's a motivator, but the jury is out on the coordinators.

no excuse in losing to a fellow zero year coach, when you win the turn over battle. Throw in that this team was a 9 win team.. did we seriously lose all our athletes to be at ground zero? Even below Purdue? So frustrating.
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Did you watch he game yesterday? We ran to the outside a lot and couldn't pass worth a darn the few times we tried. They don't have the players to run a more wide open offense. This team is built to grind it out. The offense isn't going to be the same as it was at WMU because there isn't th right personnel.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Did you watch he game yesterday? We ran to the outside a lot and couldn't pass worth a darn the few times we tried. They don't have the players to run a more wide open offense. This team is built to grind it out. The offense isn't going to be the same as it was at WMU because there isn't th right personnel.
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Yup. We are depleted at WR and have a below average QB in terms of passing, who isn't a threat to run at all. Not to mention he back peddles 5+ yards nearly every pass play.


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hello-world said:
To me, it doesn't look similar, we're running a way slimmer playbook. Our run blocking is unimaginative, our play-calling is predictable, and our entire offense is built around a play that we are incapable of running. Why not just bring back the golden I? We would be way more successful with that than we are with this.

However, I'll openly admit that I don't like single-set formations and it's a personal preference.
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I too have been underwhelmed by the offensive game plan being so basic looking, and with no real ability to make, or at least try to make adjustments. I feel that Fleck put together a very good staff, so it's puzzling. They don't seem to have a counter-punch ability.

Hate to bring it up, but the HC of the team to the east seems to have mastered making halftime adjustments.
 

PMWinSTP said:
I too have been underwhelmed by the offensive game plan being so basic looking, and with no real ability to make, or at least try to make adjustments. I feel that Fleck put together a very good staff, so it's puzzling. They don't seem to have a counter-punch ability.

Hate to bring it up, but the HC of the team to the east seems to have mastered making halftime adjustments.
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So your continued defense of Rhoda is it's all the coaches fault. It has nothing to do with Rhoda being a bad QB...:rolleyes:
 

GophersInIowa said:
Did you watch he game yesterday? We ran to the outside a lot and couldn't pass worth a darn the few times we tried. They don't have the players to run a more wide open offense. This team is built to grind it out. The offense isn't going to be the same as it was at WMU because there isn't th right personnel.
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Agree to disagree on the player personnel comment. The offense doesn't need to be wide open or extremely basic like it has been these five games. Finally mixed in play action pass and it worked but then I didn't see it again.
 

jdoif0304 said:
This is the most frustrating offense I've seen since the "Brew Crew". Hey lets run the same play over and over again (inside zone). I can live with Rohda as our QB, but come on man (Kirk whatever) please run something else. Won't make a bowl game this year, and maybe next if the OL can't open holes, and if they run inside zone over and over. Sorry I'm frustrated by lack of offense.
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Did you watch the game yesterday? They didn't run inside zone as much as you think they did
 

hello-world said:
You realize we're starting a guy that literally no division 1 program wanted right?
Green is big and fast. He fit well with Johnson's offense, yes he would have been better in that system.

We lost two o-line starters to transfer after Claeys was fired unless I'm mis-remembering their reason for transfer.
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Both OL are out of football . Next.
 



hello-world said:
"We lost two players off of our line so we're probably worse off than they would have been."

"They don't play football anymore."

Gee thanks for that input genius.
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You're spewing in uncharted waters. Conner had been demoted to second team. Tyler's back problems begin surfacing late in the season and it caused him to miss the bowl game.Do you want the rest of the history on the two players after they left, or is out of football good enough?
At Oregon Seth Green was told he would probably move to TE. In HS ( Texas ) he never became a starter. Thus, with the Oregon decision to move him to TE , he flipped to Minnesota because they offered him a chance to play QB. If you watched Spring and Fall practices you could see why Oregon wanted to move him to TE. Next Part Deux
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Psst. . . Conor Rhoda split time at QB his senior season of HS with a much worse QB than Seth Green did (Ricardo Johnson III).

If that's a strike against Green being a capable Big 10 QB, you might not want to use it in the context of Conor Rhoda.
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You went to more games than I did...but I thought it was Rhoda's team and Ricardo played in get him some experience situations. It was certainly Rhoda's team in the playoff run? .... how I remember it but only saw playoff games and talked to some folks
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
So your continued defense of Rhoda is it's all the coaches fault. It has nothing to do with Rhoda being a bad QB...:rolleyes:
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I don't think Mitch was a bad quarterback and I don't think Rhoda is either. They have different skills. Neither offense used or is using those skills to their greatest advantage. That's my comment and my interpretation of what PMW is saying as well. Did either team seem to ever set anything up...with any consistency...show you this, make you stop it and gash you with this kind of thing. We run our "specials" without setting the defense up to defend them....they don't work....the few times we use some.
There is nothing that screams to the other team...Dang, I wish this guy was OUR offensive coordinator, for certainly the last two years.
 

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