Did we hire Fleck to be drastically better in one year?

UpAndUnder43

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I'm as frustrated as anyone by game Saturday. Gophers were outplayed on all facets, including coaching.

However, I'm in this for the long haul. Just as I was with all previous coaches. Fleck is going to recruit his guys, run his system and we will see what happens.

The aftermath of a loss is always the same. But when its in game 4 of a new regime I am less concerned. If a similar loss occurs in 2020? Sure. Lets freak on Fleck (trademark pending) but until then take a deep breath and realize he is going to be here a while and freaking out over a loss is silly.
 

I wouldn't say the Gophers were vastly outplayed on all facets of the game, they did lose but were competitive, and really in the football game until the end. The players continued to fight back even when they're were mistakes, missed tackles and being in the wrong spot's, and errors. They made a lot of mistakes for a team that only lost 24-31. Hopefully Brooks and the special teams guy's learned something Saturday, take nothing for granted, don't expect a bounce to be predictable, and have your head on a swivel, be aware of where the ball is at on all kicks. Santoso can kick the ball out of the end zone all day long if he want's or is coached to do so, until those angle short kicks are perfected I would let him boot it through the goal line.

To only lose the game by 7 points on a last minute play and to have left some points on the board due to turnovers indicates even with lesser talent the Gophers can be competitive in the Big 10. What Saturday proved is they cannot lose the turnover battle and win many Big 1o games, the team just isn't built that way. With as ball hoggish as they were last year you would hope the guy's would have at least that same desire to win the turnover battle on defense. I know the talent level isn't quite the same, but the precedent was set to win games on defense from that group. You cannot call yourselves DB U and not have any take a way's.
 

I've been of the opinion that this year was going to be the start of a couple year process of change. Call it rebuilding, reloading, restocking, whatever.

You bring a new coach in from the outside to come and cleanup a program with the scandals this one had, you're going to see a change in direction on wins. Absolutely no doubt about it. Unless you hired Knute Rockne / Vince Lombardi / or Nick Saban as head coach.

I love the optimism of those who thought this would be a winning season with a brand-new QB who never played (barely) before, but there's a reason many national publications picked us to have a weak record.

The record this year really doesn't matter, but I'd be thrilled with a bowl game!
 

The point of this thread, on the surface, is legit. This loss doesn't ruin the season and it certainly doesn't lessen the chances that Fleck will be successful. However, I don't see anyone asking for him to be fired. I see some saying he coached a bad game and others unable to even accept that in denial and talking about silly recruiting rankings that had zero impact on the game.


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Please define drastically better than 9 wins.
 


I've been of the opinion that this year was going to be the start of a couple year process of change. Call it rebuilding, reloading, restocking, whatever.

You bring a new coach in from the outside to come and cleanup a program with the scandals this one had, you're going to see a change in direction on wins. Absolutely no doubt about it. Unless you hired Knute Rockne / Vince Lombardi / or Nick Saban as head coach.

I love the optimism of those who thought this would be a winning season with a brand-new QB who never played (barely) before, but there's a reason many national publications picked us to have a weak record.

The record this year really doesn't matter, but I'd be thrilled with a bowl game!

The record this year doesn't matter??? Wow.
 

I believe we'll bounce back this week.
 

I would hope he could at least keep us at the same level (8-9 wins). The talent is there.
 

Unless you're promoting from within and running the same system, I actually expect to see a falloff. And I'm always pleasantly surprised if it's minimized.

Everything's harder the first year coach. You don't know the players, they're not used to your system, there's always discipline problems in the transition, pretty much every week you're opposite a coaching staff you don't know. Probably worse, if it's a jump up the ladder, B1G reality is a completely different animal for a G5 coach. Top to bottom, I don't think there's a more grinding conference closer to true parity than the B1G.

Also, if you have to be "developing" young players, you can easily get in a world of hurt in a hurry. Most high school players aren't particularly well-coached and they're certainly not used to playing the level of competition in every practice much less every game. The players find the playbook is deeper, you have to adjust to a new, higher level of schooling both academically and for football, you probably need a good year or two with S&C and nutritional work. But the hardest thing in development is that young players think to much--they're consciously trying to integrate all the coaching and they're playing in their heads and making mistakes. All that stuff the coaches throw at you has to be practiced until it's internalized until you read and react rather than read, think, react. It's the zen of the game, and having to use players that aren't ready--no matter how much native talent--is problematic.

That doesn't mean coaches get a free pass. You shouldn't ever see a huge falloff with a decent team, but you can't totally ignore the facts either.
 



I'm as frustrated as anyone by game Saturday. Gophers were outplayed on all facets, including coaching.

However, I'm in this for the long haul. Just as I was with all previous coaches. Fleck is going to recruit his guys, run his system and we will see what happens.

The aftermath of a loss is always the same. But when its in game 4 of a new regime I am less concerned. If a similar loss occurs in 2020? Sure. Lets freak on Fleck (trademark pending) but until then take a deep breath and realize he is going to be here a while and freaking out over a loss is silly.

Let me turn this question around on you. Did we hire him to be drastically worse in one year?
 

Lots of apologists for Fleck on this thread. Fact is the team played poorly. They also appeared poorly coached and unprepared for a Big 10 opponent. They got punched in the mouth by a team they thought they would handle easily and lost. Poor tackling and poor fundamentals throughout the game. This one is on Fleck.
 

Unless you're promoting from within and running the same system, I actually expect to see a falloff. And I'm always pleasantly surprised if it's minimized.

Everything's harder the first year coach. You don't know the players, they're not used to your system, there's always discipline problems in the transition, pretty much every week you're opposite a coaching staff you don't know. Probably worse, if it's a jump up the ladder, B1G reality is a completely different animal for a G5 coach. Top to bottom, I don't think there's a more grinding conference closer to true parity than the B1G.

Also, if you have to be "developing" young players, you can easily get in a world of hurt in a hurry. Most high school players aren't particularly well-coached and they're certainly not used to playing the level of competition in every practice much less every game. The players find the playbook is deeper, you have to adjust to a new, higher level of schooling both academically and for football, you probably need a good year or two with S&C and nutritional work. But the hardest thing in development is that young players think to much--they're consciously trying to integrate all the coaching and they're playing in their heads and making mistakes. All that stuff the coaches throw at you has to be practiced until it's internalized until you read and react rather than read, think, react. It's the zen of the game, and having to use players that aren't ready--no matter how much native talent--is problematic.

That doesn't mean coaches get a free pass. You shouldn't ever see a huge falloff with a decent team, but you can't totally ignore the facts either.

I expected 5 wins with Claeys returning (due to not likely being able to complete a forward pass, a drop off in DB play, and the O-line issues). After Fleck chose his staff and I watched game one and thought we may have a serviceable QB, but same issues in other areas, I thought he may get us to 6 wins.

I laugh when I hear how CC and 36 are being misused. Blake was in on every 3rd down I watched and I never once saw him get home. Love the 3 LB's that are starting and that they found a place to get CC on the field at DE. Better IMO than anything we have or had at DE.

Even though the Kill years were the best defensive years I have witnessed, there were plenty of games I was left wondering WTH. I have enjoyed seeing us completely handle the OR St. and MTSU. Those that can't get over Claeys being gone and don't like Fleck's personality have been waiting for this loss. There will be many more, and there routine will get even more tired.

I will continue to sit back and enjoy the games and know that we will undoubtedly be better off than we would have been without the change, this year, and especially moving forward. I really liked Kill and was OK with Claeys, but I now think we have the most complete staff in my time.
 

Lots of apologists for Fleck on this thread. Fact is the team played poorly. They also appeared poorly coached and unprepared for a Big 10 opponent. They got punched in the mouth by a team they thought they would handle easily and lost. Poor tackling and poor fundamentals throughout the game. This one is on Fleck.

I have read this numerous times. What were the examples of poor coaching in this game, in your opinion. I seemed to recall the D line breaking into the backfield numerous times only to miss the tackle. I recall superior athletes running away from our defensive talent. I am not a fan of continuous RUTM, but I thought 24 points would be enough to win as well. To me this loss came down to defensive players not tackling in space. I guess Fleck should have gone live more in spring ball?
 



I have read this numerous times. What were the examples of poor coaching in this game, in your opinion. I seemed to recall the D line breaking into the backfield numerous times only to miss the tackle. I recall superior athletes running away from our defensive talent. I am not a fan of continuous RUTM, but I thought 24 points would be enough to win as well. To me this loss came down to defensive players not tackling in space. I guess Fleck should have gone live more in spring ball?

Our corners were out of position and slow all game. Whatever that breakdown was on Maryland's last touchdown was unforgivable. We have a quarterback that's not allowed to run but they're calling read option plays every time we get the ball. The list of coaching mistakes in that game was longer than Santa's wishlist from an Edina kid.
 

Our corners were out of position and slow all game. Whatever that breakdown was on Maryland's last touchdown was unforgivable. We have a quarterback that's not allowed to run but they're calling read option plays every time we get the ball. The list of coaching mistakes in that game was longer than Santa's wishlist from an Edina kid.

That's because our corners are slow and not very good.
 

I have read this numerous times. <b>What were the examples of poor coaching in this game, </b>in your opinion. I seemed to recall the D line breaking into the backfield numerous times only to miss the tackle. I recall superior athletes running away from our defensive talent. I am not a fan of continuous RUTM, but I thought 24 points would be enough to win as well. To me this loss came down to defensive players not tackling in space. I guess Fleck should have gone live more in spring ball?

Let's start with the game plan on both sides of the ball that showed we were unprepared, the uninspired effort the players put forth, and the crazy refusal to make any in game adjustments - especially with our offensive approach.


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That's because our corners are slow and not very good.

They aren't so slow that they need 7 yards of cushion with the talent we have over the top. Stop making excuses for him, that was an awful performance from Fleck.
He's making $3 million a year on our support, it's okay to demand excellence.
You wouldn't be crying about the Vikings lack of talent if Zimmer lost to the Browns, stop doing it when Fleck losses to a bottom-feeder team from the East.
 

They aren't so slow that they need 7 yards of cushion with the talent we have over the top. Stop making excuses for him, that was an awful performance from Fleck.
He's making $3 million a year on our support, it's okay to demand excellence.
You wouldn't be crying about the Vikings lack of talent if Zimmer lost to the Browns, stop doing it when Fleck losses to a bottom-feeder team from the East.

Have you watched Shenault play this year?
 

Have you watched Shenault play this year?

Yes he has regressed significantly and I'm thoroughly convinced it's because he's not able to disrupt routes before they develop because Smith has him lined up in our end zone when the other team is on the 20.
I'll go find a video (not of Shenault) that illustrated my point.
 

Let's start with the game plan on both sides of the ball that showed we were unprepared, the uninspired effort the players put forth, and the crazy refusal to make any in game adjustments - especially with our offensive approach.


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They punted 3 times and should have scored 6 times with at least 3 touchdowns. The offense was clearly not the problem in this game.
 

Let's start with the game plan on both sides of the ball that showed we were unprepared, the uninspired effort the players put forth, and the crazy refusal to make any in game adjustments - especially with our offensive approach.


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Based on what? Our offense was just as good if not better than it was against Maryland last year. Uninspired? We had a goal line stand on Maryland's 1st drive. The game was tied with just under 4 minutes left in the game. There were missed opportunities by the players all game long. The coaches had the players in a position to win the game.
 

Yes he has regressed significantly and I'm thoroughly convinced it's because he's not able to disrupt routes before they develop because Smith has him lined up in our end zone when the other team is on the 20.
I'll go find a video (not of Shenault) that illustrated my point.

Thomas is playing press because he can actually cover people. The coaches clearly do not trust Shenault to that so he's playing further away from the receivers.
 

Yes he has regressed significantly and I'm thoroughly convinced it's because he's not able to disrupt routes before they develop because Smith has him lined up in our end zone when the other team is on the 20.
I'll go find a video (not of Shenault) that illustrated my point.

Lol, Shenault has never been fast or good. You obviously weren't paying attention the last few seasons.
 

Based on what? Our offense was just as good if not better than it was against Maryland last year. Uninspired? We had a goal line stand on Maryland's 1st drive. The game was tied with just under 4 minutes left in the game. There were missed opportunities by the players all game long. The coaches had the players in a position to win the game.

If our players were perfect every down then I could coach them, it's Flecks job to limit the damage and exploit the strengths, he failed last week.
 

This is what I'm talking about:

http://video.btn.com/dj-turner-diving-catch-on-4th-and-10-vs-minnesota

Thomas is like ten yards off the line of scrimmage which means all three trips had time to develop, all three routes were open, and they converted a 4th and 10 into our red zone.
That's not acceptable. I understand prevent defense, but sometimes you need to trust your guys in man coverage. Trips right on 4th and 10 is on of those times.
 

Lol, Shenault has never been fast or good. You obviously weren't paying attention the last few seasons.

I think you are completely misunderstanding my point. He's never been one of our top corners but he was effective in the old system because Claeys knew how to scheme for him, Smith, so far at least, has shown an inability to do so.
 

There was no one even covering the slot receiver. Winfield is playing deep here as a safety, also the play he got hurt on. This is pathetic defensive scheming.
 


I think you are completely misunderstanding my point. He's never been one of our top corners but he was effective in the old system because Claeys knew how to scheme for him, Smith, so far at least, has shown an inability to do so.

He was better in the old system because he was mostly a backup coming in to give someone a breather. When he was forced to start, he had a better corner opposite of him to take on the best WR. Now he's the best we have which is telling on how far our CB talent has dropped via graduation and expulsions.
 

Let's start with the game plan on both sides of the ball that showed we were unprepared, the uninspired effort the players put forth, and the crazy refusal to make any in game adjustments - especially with our offensive approach.


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You must be a much higher level coach than me. To me, unprepared looks like not getting lined up correctly and mental errors that produce numerous penalties. I am quite sure no one would complain about the defensive game plan if we finished tackles in the Maryland backfield. Also, our rather weak corners compared to past years playing off and keeping MD in front seems to be the right call, esp. with Duke and AW out. The hope had to be bend a little but hope our front seven made enough plays to stop them before they drove the field.

On offense i saw a QB, not super talented but the best we have miss a higher % of throws than previous games that killed drives. I saw an Oline not get much push which is really not a surprise. It seemed the plan then became to do what we have successfully done in the past. RUTM so we don't have to set an edge and put the game in the hands of our best players, RS and SB. While not a thing of beauty, it resulted in 24 points. Again, I am not a fan of RUTM, but I am not sure what else goes better. What were the adjustments that should have been made, that our guys were capable of carrying out. As much as i don't like to say it, I do not think we were more talented. In fact, I am disappointed that MD had 3 QB's on their roster that are better than anything we have on ours.
 




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