Did we hire Fleck to be drastically better in one year?

I never said it about Kill or Claeys, huh? You have any idea how many posts I have? You've read them all? Hell, even I haven't. I have ripped Kill's offensive approach on here repeatedly recently in regards to Rutgers and did the same when he was here. You don't think I was mad at Claeys after the MI game? Go to bed JG - you are a fool.


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No one's life is boring enough to go back and read your posts, and I'm sure you were a little miffed at Claeys and Kill from time to time. But try not to fool yourself into thinking you're objective about Fleck...
 

10 keepers per game from Rhoda. Brilliant strategy coach. I'm sure that's the ticket to 10 wins, they should get you on the payroll.

JUCOs almost never red-shirt. They had every intention of playing Silver until Gary Moore awoke from his slumber this off-season. But don't hurt yourself patting your back...

It would have helped move their linebackers away from Shannon and made room for Shannon to get going downhill. Two good carries by Rhoda might have been enough to completely flip the game, we'll never know, but as it was played, Rhoda didn't do his job on the read-option.
 

I have read this numerous times. What were the examples of poor coaching in this game, in your opinion. I seemed to recall the D line breaking into the backfield numerous times only to miss the tackle. I recall superior athletes running away from our defensive talent. I am not a fan of continuous RUTM, but I thought 24 points would be enough to win as well. To me this loss came down to defensive players not tackling in space. I guess Fleck should have gone live more in spring ball?

First time Maryland is third and long, they throw a pass to short side of field right at sticks. Shenault was covering, but had no help. He was right there, but unable to make a play on the ball. Give Maryland credit on that one. They ran that same play at least two other times on 3rd and long with success. That is on the coaches, for not making an adjustment and providing help to the short side.
Offensively in the second half on first down, we would stand at the LOS call out something, look to the sideline, Maryland would walk a safety up, we would look to the sideline again, then have a running play that would not get many yards. Maryland did this quite often on early downs in the second half. We did not adjust. Two things we could have done to combat that would be to have a running play, run it right away and not wait for Maryland to roll the safety up, catching them out of position. We did that some in the OSU game so it wasn't something that we hadn't practiced. The other thing we could have done was to run a play action pass and try to beat them over the top as they had only one deep safety.
Those are two examples where our coaching was not good in this game.
 

I guess to me it is not so much about finding someone to blame. Is Fleck perfect, of course not, he would be the first if he was. It just isn't my first instinct to blame the coach for most things that are decided by players playing. In college FB I blame coaches for roster management, pre-snap penalties, lack of discipline, poor clock management, etc. These are not what seemed to cost us this particular game. Some of them, like roster makeup, can't be pinned to Fleck this year. Sorry that you can't accept that. We all get that you don't like him, and feel free to try to convince us that everything that goes wrong is his fault. As much as you want to scream it, it doesn't make it true. Fleck will have plenty to be blamed for in his time here, all coaches do. He has done multiple things I would have done differently already this year. Even though you have been working super hard with your little hater club doesn't mean anything you have identified so far are any of those things. Your eyes may be wide open, but it appears you don't know what your looking at.

I like Fleck just fine. I don't particularly like his offense or defense, especially in that game. It's terribly unimaginative, and it was executed poorly.
 

Your argument is so weak. Did I ask for 10 keepers or any specific number? How about 2. He had one that went for 6 yards. How about a run to the outside. How about a jet sweep. How about a second bubble screen. Not 10. Any so we don't run into a +1 or +2 box each and every time. This isn't rocket science.

Most JuCos don't have 3 to play 2 and come into a position of strength that will be one of weakness in a year. Wasn't rocket science either.


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Get in there coach. Show Ciarocca how it's done! 2 QB keepers per game and a few jet sweeps. We'll be putting up 40 every game... just like you did in high school.

And again, since Moore had never played meaningful snaps in his first 3 seasons, and because most teams will need to play at least 4 DTs throughout the course of a season, it was logical that Silver would be playing. He'll still need to if anyone gets injured.
 


I think it's pretty interesting that people think we are just as talented as we were last year.

Our DBs because of graduation and the suspensions have gotten so much worse. This is the first year in a long time we haven't had a CB who can slow down (if not shut down) their best WR consistently (Murray, BBC, Myrick). Not an expert by any means, but that definitely limits what we can do defensively, especially when Winfield went down.

There is a clear lack of talent at D-end (Coughlin got dominated most of the MD game from what I saw), although I think the front 7 is better than what they showed last week.

Offensively, the passing game (especially pass blocking) IMO looks better, and there appears to be a few bright spots at receiver. But that is more than offset by our O-line taking a big step back in the run game. I think part of it is lack of talent, but a big part of it is that we don't have a QB who can run. For all his faults, Leidner kept defenses on their toes when we ran the option. I agree that we have got to do something besides RUTM 60% of the time, but I don't think it's fair to say that offensively or defensively we are better than we were last year.

Overall, I think we hired Fleck because his ceiling was going to be higher than the previous staff. It may take a few years, and a huge drop off would be disappointing because this team does have talent, but it's clear that in a lot of key areas (DB, O-line, QB) we simply don't have the talent right now to take the next step. Claeys probably wouldn't have gotten the talent, I think Fleck can. I do have my doubts that Robb Smith will match Sawvel/Claeys coaching talent, though.
 

No one's life is boring enough to go back and read your posts, and I'm sure you were a little miffed at Claeys and Kill from time to time. But try not to fool yourself into thinking you're objective about Fleck...

But you just told me I never criticized them. You know, right after you told me I suggested Rhoda throw 40 times a game which was right before you said I asked for Rhoda to run 10 times a game. It is almost as if you just spew out crap to try and support an argument that is falling apart. Almost like that.


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So your argument is the offense worked with a different team with different players that played in a weak conference - so it should work here without any tweaks. Got it.


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That's not what I said at all. And you didn't answer my question of what you'd like to see changed. Fleck wants to spread it out and get the ball his playmakers. That's the whole basis of his offense. But he has to have the players to do it. Fleck is just using what he has.

We've now seen three different offensive coordinators in three years. Yet we've seen similar offense all three years. At some point maybe you and others will realize that has more to do with personnel than coaching. Luckily it'll change over the next few years.
 

Get in there coach. Show Ciarocca how it's done! 2 QB keepers per game and a few jet sweeps. We'll be putting up 40 every game... just like you did in high school.

And again, since Moore had never played meaningful snaps in his first 3 seasons, and because most teams will need to play at least 4 DTs throughout the course of a season, it was logical that Silver would be playing. He'll still need to if anyone gets injured.

Good insight coach.


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You must be a much higher level coach than me. To me, unprepared looks like not getting lined up correctly and mental errors that produce numerous penalties. I am quite sure no one would complain about the defensive game plan if we finished tackles in the Maryland backfield. Also, our rather weak corners compared to past years playing off and keeping MD in front seems to be the right call, esp. with Duke and AW out. The hope had to be bend a little but hope our front seven made enough plays to stop them before they drove the field.

On offense i saw a QB, not super talented but the best we have miss a higher % of throws than previous games that killed drives. I saw an Oline not get much push which is really not a surprise. It seemed the plan then became to do what we have successfully done in the past. RUTM so we don't have to set an edge and put the game in the hands of our best players, RS and SB. While not a thing of beauty, it resulted in 24 points. Again, I am not a fan of RUTM, but I am not sure what else goes better. What were the adjustments that should have been made, that our guys were capable of carrying out. As much as i don't like to say it, I do not think we were more talented. In fact, I am disappointed that MD had 3 QB's on their roster that are better than anything we have on ours.

The first point is debatable but I think you know a lot of people would disagree, particularly vs their 4th stringer.

To the second, you can't think of one thing?
 

First time Maryland is third and long, they throw a pass to short side of field right at sticks. Shenault was covering, but had no help. He was right there, but unable to make a play on the ball. Give Maryland credit on that one. They ran that same play at least two other times on 3rd and long with success. That is on the coaches, for not making an adjustment and providing help to the short side.
Offensively in the second half on first down, we would stand at the LOS call out something, look to the sideline, Maryland would walk a safety up, we would look to the sideline again, then have a running play that would not get many yards. Maryland did this quite often on early downs in the second half. We did not adjust. Two things we could have done to combat that would be to have a running play, run it right away and not wait for Maryland to roll the safety up, catching them out of position. We did that some in the OSU game so it wasn't something that we hadn't practiced. The other thing we could have done was to run a play action pass and try to beat them over the top as they had only one deep safety.
Those are two examples where our coaching was not good in this game.

Exposing more field to help our most experienced corner on the short side? Not sure I would have done that either. Offensively, I agree on the play action, too bad Rhoda seemed to be missing more of those throws yesterday. I think he looks for Woz a little too often as well. I also missed Douglas in this game. Could we have used howard on some of those routes to the edge, maybe. It seems as his hands aren't as reliable though.
 

If people want to be upset after this last game, fine. Not that I wouldn't have preferred a win, but if you're getting upset about the coaching after this game, you'll be upset about the coaching 5 or 6 more times this year, and probably 6-8 times next year before we start looking to be better after that.

We are 2 years away from 2019 and even then we'll be at a talent disadvantage against many teams.

Some teams have staff that coach 'em up to be competitive with the big boys and occasionally a conference title run. We will see if this staff can a) recruit at a top 20 level, and b) coach em up. Obviously neither of those questions have been answered. Maybe he can recruit at a top 40 level and develop to a top 20 level (or vice versa...)
 




The first point is debatable but I think you know a lot of people would disagree, particularly vs their 4th stringer.

To the second, you can't think of one thing?

yes, I can, but I wasn't blaming the coaches for this loss.
 

That's not what I said at all. And you didn't answer my question of what you'd like to see changed. Fleck wants to spread it out and get the ball his playmakers. That's the whole basis of his offense. But he has to have the players to do it. Fleck is just using what he has.

We've now seen three different offensive coordinators in three years. Yet we've seen similar offense all three years. At some point maybe you and others will realize that has more to do with personnel than coaching. Luckily it'll change over the next few years.

+1


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+1


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But our offense looks completely different this year?
What do you mean same offense?
We're not doing much of anything the same. Honestly we look more like a poor man's version of last years Western Michigan than we look like J Johnson's offense from last year.
 

A fair question, I see it hasn't been answered yet.
Your assumption, and it's a huge one, is that Claeys would have won 9 games again this year. And beaten every team that he beat last year.

I am not making that assumption! I know that Claeys and Fleck are two totally different coaches. If Claeys were still here Rhoda wouldn't even be on the team. I get they have different philosophies, I am okay with that. I watched Claeys and staff draw up an incredibly creative defensive scheme against WSU last year when we were totally depleted on the defensive side of the ball. Fleck just came off a bye, at home and although he took some limited blame he was quick to blame depth and lack of talent.
 

But our offense looks completely different this year?
What do you mean same offense?
We're not doing much of anything the same. Honestly we look more like a poor man's version of last years Western Michigan than we look like J Johnson's offense from last year.
Almost as if WMU had more talent last year on offense.
 

I guess to me it is not so much about finding someone to blame. Is Fleck perfect, of course not, he would be the first if he was. It just isn't my first instinct to blame the coach for most things that are decided by players playing. In college FB I blame coaches for roster management, pre-snap penalties, lack of discipline, poor clock management, etc. These are not what seemed to cost us this particular game. Some of them, like roster makeup, can't be pinned to Fleck this year. Sorry that you can't accept that. We all get that you don't like him, and feel free to try to convince us that everything that goes wrong is his fault. As much as you want to scream it, it doesn't make it true. Fleck will have plenty to be blamed for in his time here, all coaches do. He has done multiple things I would have done differently already this year. Even though you have been working super hard with your little hater club doesn't mean anything you have identified so far are any of those things. Your eyes may be wide open, but it appears you don't know what your looking at.

We should just have a monkey calling OC and DC then? Give him a typewriter.
 

Almost as if WMU had more talent last year on offense.

They didn't have more talent, they had one player in Corey Davis.
We have three fantastic backs, a couple okay receivers and two awesome tight ends.
It's not our players fault that Fleck is still figuring out how to use them.
 

A fair question, I see it hasn't been answered yet.

I am not making that assumption! I know that Claeys and Fleck are two totally different coaches. If Claeys were still here Rhoda wouldn't even be on the team. I get they have different philosophies, I am okay with that. I watched Claeys and staff draw up an incredibly creative defensive scheme against WSU last year when we were totally depleted on the defensive side of the ball. Fleck just came off a bye, at home and although he took some limited blame he was quick to blame depth and lack of talent.

What about when they gave up 31 and 32 to Rutgers and Purdue last year?
 

Kinda a little off topic but not worthy of a separate thread: What difference does it make where the MD quarterback was on the depth chart? That's in no way an objective measurement of anything except which school he's at. Cardale Jones was 3rd on the depth chart and his first start was the B1G Championship game and then his second was the National Championship game.
 


Your argument is so weak. Did I ask for 10 keepers or any specific number? How about 2. He had one that went for 6 yards. How about a run to the outside. How about a jet sweep. How about a second bubble screen. Not 10. Any so we don't run into a +1 or +2 box each and every time. This isn't rocket science.

Most JuCos don't have 3 to play 2 and come into a position of strength that will be one of weakness in a year. Wasn't rocket science either.



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Rhoda picked up 6 and a personal foul for 15 more on that play. That's as good as 21 as far as I am concerned.
 

They didn't have more talent, they had one player in Corey Davis.
We have three fantastic backs, a couple okay receivers and two awesome tight ends.
It's not our players fault that Fleck is still figuring out how to use them.

They had two NFL offensive lineman, two 1000 yard backs, the most accurate quarterback in the country, and the best receiver in college football. How did they not have more talent on offense?
 



They didn't have more talent, they had one player in Corey Davis.
We have three fantastic backs, a couple okay receivers and two awesome tight ends.
It's not our players fault that Fleck is still figuring out how to use them.

The RBs are good but the rest of the offense talent isn’t nearly as good as you think or want them to be.


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A fair question, I see it hasn't been answered yet.

I am not making that assumption! I know that Claeys and Fleck are two totally different coaches. If Claeys were still here Rhoda wouldn't even be on the team. I get they have different philosophies, I am okay with that. I watched Claeys and staff draw up an incredibly creative defensive scheme against WSU last year when we were totally depleted on the defensive side of the ball. Fleck just came off a bye, at home and although he took some limited blame he was quick to blame depth and lack of talent.

I loved the defensive performance against WSU last year. If only we could have done the same against Wisky. Or Nebraska. Or Penn St. Claeys might still be here.

People are also quick to forget how putrid the offense was against WSU. If Shannon Brooks didn't get the miraculous bounce, we could be talking about how we blew the defensive performance of a lifetime. The Maryland performance was pretty compared to a number of the offensive showings we had last year.
 

Kinda a little off topic but not worthy of a separate thread: What difference does it make where the MD quarterback was on the depth chart? That's in no way an objective measurement of anything except which school he's at. Cardale Jones was 3rd on the depth chart and his first start was the B1G Championship game and then his second was the National Championship game.

Are you serious?
 




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