Did we hire Fleck to be drastically better in one year?

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gopher7 said:
I've been through so many coaching changes as a fan that I've learned not to even care about the first two years of their tenure. I'll expect the third year to be when his coaching style can really start to take effect, so that is when I will expect results.
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Agree, but I really hope we got it right this time. I'm getting old and my health ain't so good.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
And since Spoofin never answered it earlier, I’ll ask you the same thing. What adjustments would you have made that PJ didn’t?
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Stated some of these already in other threads, I'll repeat them for you here:
1. When at the line of scrimmage, Rhoda would call out a cadence, then pause and look to the sideline. Maryland would drop a safety down into the box. Rhoda would call out another cadence, pause and look to the sideline a second time. One adjustment we could have made would be to snap the ball early when Rhoda was making his first call, thus catching Maryland moving and out of position. We did this same exact thing when playing at OSU, so it is something they have done before.
2. When Maryland dropped 8 in the box, we could have run some play action passes and tried to throw over the top as they only had one deep safety. Don't recall us taking very many shots like that throughout the entire game, especially in the second half when Maryland was really selling out to stop the run on first and second down.
3. We threw one bubble screen to Howard, which he turned into an 8 yard gain and almost broke it for even more than that. We should have tried it a few more times and not just to Howard.
4. Lingen had his way with the DB on his TD catch. We had chances to exploit that match up at anytime. Again, especially since Maryland was loading up to stop the run on early downs in the second half.
5. How many times did we try to run something outside the tackles? Maybe we should have tried a few outside runs in the form of Jet Sweeps or outside runs by Brooks and Smith.
6. Finally, Take the leash off Rhoda and let him run the read play like it is designed to be run, meaning let him read it and pull if it's there, which it was.
These are all things that they have done already this year in games, so I know they have installed those things.
Now along with those things, They could also have run some other plays, like a counter play where they pull a couple lineman to lead around the end. They also could have run a QB option play to the edge of the defense. Both of those two things I saw them run, with great success in the practices that I watched this fall and Rhoda was the one running the option.
Is this a good enough list of things that the offensive staff could have done during the game? Would you like some defensive things as well?

Again I will say, they blew a great chance on Saturday to get their first BIG win. I was disappointed in the approach that was taken by the coaching staff during the game. They didn't show as much creativity that they had shown in the prior couple games. I do have confidence in them learning from this, making adjustments and performing better this coming Saturday.
 

Gopher028 said:
My beef with Fleck is that he thinks he can't be successful with the talent here.
The cupboard isn't as good as some, but it's not bare. This team, short handed,
with good coaching beat a (now #11) WSU team in the Holiday Bowl to go 9-4.

Fleck so far is more worried about 'changing the culture'. All fine but the culture outside
a couple really dumb decisions by a small few, was pretty good. Academics up, guys were
buying in and playing with heart. He needs to BUILD off that, not REbuild it...
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Let's do a car analogy...

To win the Big Ten Auto Race, you need a car that can go about 120 MPH in a down year to a 200 MPH in a competitive year.

Tracy Claeys and Jerry Kill went and found some good 1960's muscle cars and fixed and fixed... next thing you know, we improved from 80 MPH, to 100 MPH, and last year we were running a 1970 Chevy Chevelle SS, bouncing right around 115 MPH fixing up those old muscle cars. Problem was, the engine needed to be replaced. New engine Claeys was looking at was something from a late 1970's car. He was never much fond of a Lotus, or a Honda S2000 because they weren't quite his style, and we certainly weren't going to afford a Ferrari.

Sure, Claeys maybe could have gotten that car running fast, but it wasn't looking good.

Fleck comes in and he sees a nice looking Chevelle, but his job is to compete to win Big Ten titles, not just run a competitive race and try to catch lighting in a bottle. All of the fans in the area really love the 1970 Chevy Chevelle we've had. We'd won some smaller racers with her, but we couldn't beat the Red Corvette next door.
Plus we put a lot of hard work into helping paint that Chevelle, we even spent time waxing her and won a auto show with her in late December.


Fleck comes in and looks at the car and thinks, "There's no way we'll beat Corvettes and Lamborghini's with this thing, but he can't say it because people will get offended that he's ripping on the car we worked so hard on.
So in turn, he needs to plug in a new engine, use the same transmission, but start changing out the other parts. He's added the aerodynamics of the rear half of his new car to the car, but the front end is still the same, and together it's not working good. It's not as fast as the car we ran last year.

So people ask, why did he decide to change the body on the car? Couldn't we have just won with the old body style and the replacement engine. Well, yes, maybe. Some would assume we'd win all of our races because the car was pretty fast last year and we got her really tuned in before we had to change engines. Not to mention, we were running such high RPM's on her last year, it appeared the whole thing might blow at one point.

But now he have this half and half car, and Fleck made that decision. If Fleck had decided to run the same car as last year, he wouldn't be getting the rear half of the body on the car, or be working to line up the new engine and front half of the car to match it.
 

Fleck answered a lot of the questions we had about scheme and overall gameplay against Maryland in his presser today. He came right out and said that he couldn't have Rhoda running the ball because he didn't want to take the redshirt off Tanner Morgan. Had to keep Rhoda upright, want in the plan to have him run. Mission accomplished and probably a big reason there was a reinstatement for Croft.
 


GFBfan said:
Stated some of these already in other threads, I'll repeat them for you here:
1. When at the line of scrimmage, Rhoda would call out a cadence, then pause and look to the sideline. Maryland would drop a safety down into the box. Rhoda would call out another cadence, pause and look to the sideline a second time. One adjustment we could have made would be to snap the ball early when Rhoda was making his first call, thus catching Maryland moving and out of position. We did this same exact thing when playing at OSU, so it is something they have done before.
2. When Maryland dropped 8 in the box, we could have run some play action passes and tried to throw over the top as they only had one deep safety. Don't recall us taking very many shots like that throughout the entire game, especially in the second half when Maryland was really selling out to stop the run on first and second down.
3. We threw one bubble screen to Howard, which he turned into an 8 yard gain and almost broke it for even more than that. We should have tried it a few more times and not just to Howard.
4. Lingen had his way with the DB on his TD catch. We had chances to exploit that match up at anytime. Again, especially since Maryland was loading up to stop the run on early downs in the second half.
5. How many times did we try to run something outside the tackles? Maybe we should have tried a few outside runs in the form of Jet Sweeps or outside runs by Brooks and Smith.
6. Finally, Take the leash off Rhoda and let him run the read play like it is designed to be run, meaning let him read it and pull if it's there, which it was.
These are all things that they have done already this year in games, so I know they have installed those things.
Now along with those things, They could also have run some other plays, like a counter play where they pull a couple lineman to lead around the end. They also could have run a QB option play to the edge of the defense. Both of those two things I saw them run, with great success in the practices that I watched this fall and Rhoda was the one running the option.
Is this a good enough list of things that the offensive staff could have done during the game? Would you like some defensive things as well?

Again I will say, they blew a great chance on Saturday to get their first BIG win. I was disappointed in the approach that was taken by the coaching staff during the game. They didn't show as much creativity that they had shown in the prior couple games. I do have confidence in them learning from this, making adjustments and performing better this coming Saturday.
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Fair enough and I think you offer some good things in this post. I disagree with 5 and we've had that argument before. Who says they haven't done 6 and Rhoda continues to fail to execute? I know they want to keep him healthy, but that doesn't mean he can't pull it a couple of times a game. If you were to suggest these things to the coaching staff do you really think they hadn't thought of them or would have reasons why they don't do it?

Anyone saying the coaching staff made zero adjustments is ridiculous and stupid. If you or someone actually believes that, you haven't played or coached football beyond middle school.
 

HoustonTXGopher said:
Fleck answered a lot of the questions we had about scheme and overall gameplay against Maryland in his presser today. He came right out and said that he couldn't have Rhoda running the ball because he didn't want to take the redshirt off Tanner Morgan. Had to keep Rhoda upright, want in the plan to have him run. Mission accomplished and probably a big reason there was a reinstatement for Croft.
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this gets to my biggest gripe. Fleck said he doesn't want Rhoda running the ball because of the risk of injury. So why the bleepin' bleepin' bleep do you have him running something that appears to be a read option? (I know some say it's not a true read option, but it looks like it).

If your best QB is best suited for a drop-back, I or pro-style offense, then run a drop-back, I or pro-style offense. I know High School coaches who do the same thing. They have "their system," and they are going to run "their system," whether the available talent fits the system or not.

I say, run a system that fits your talent. If that means you have to deviate from what you've done in the past, then do it.

Fleck is trying to shove a square peg in a round hole at QB, and when it doesn't work, he talks about lack of talent. I say lack of imagination.

PLEASE READ THIS: My issues with Fleck are largely due to issues of personality and presentation. I honestly have not formed an opinion on his ability as a coach. I saw some encouraging signs in the previous two games. But the Maryland game was very disappointing. I DO NOT think the Gophers are some juggernaut of talent. That makes coaching all the more important if this team is going to win. If you can't out-talent the other team, you have to out-think them, or out-trick them. You do NOT just throw up your hands and say "we don't have enough talent." you try something different. and if that doesn't work, you try something different. and if that doesn't work, you try something different.

If the Gophs come out and go RUTM the 1st play against Purdue, I may just chug a quart of whiskey and eat fatty foods the rest of the day.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
this gets to my biggest gripe. Fleck said he doesn't want Rhoda running the ball because of the risk of injury. So why the bleepin' bleepin' bleep do you have him running something that appears to be a read option? (I know some say it's not a true read option, but it looks like it).
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You probably should have stopped here or just flat out admit you don't know what you're talking about. It's the same offense he's always run, with a QB that has the same mobility as his past QB's. Zach Terrell averaged 18 yards per game rushing at WMU. He wasn't a running QB either and the offense was one of the most efficient in the country. Shoving a square peg in a round hole is not even close to the truth.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
this gets to my biggest gripe. Fleck said he doesn't want Rhoda running the ball because of the risk of injury. So why the bleepin' bleepin' bleep do you have him running something that appears to be a read option? (I know some say it's not a true read option, but it looks like it).

If your best QB is best suited for a drop-back, I or pro-style offense, then run a drop-back, I or pro-style offense. I know High School coaches who do the same thing. They have "their system," and they are going to run "their system," whether the available talent fits the system or not.

I say, run a system that fits your talent. If that means you have to deviate from what you've done in the past, then do it.

Fleck is trying to shove a square peg in a round hole at QB, and when it doesn't work, he talks about lack of talent. I say lack of imagination.

PLEASE READ THIS: My issues with Fleck are largely due to issues of personality and presentation. I honestly have not formed an opinion on his ability as a coach. I saw some encouraging signs in the previous two games. But the Maryland game was very disappointing. I DO NOT think the Gophers are some juggernaut of talent. That makes coaching all the more important if this team is going to win. If you can't out-talent the other team, you have to out-think them, or out-trick them. You do NOT just throw up your hands and say "we don't have enough talent." you try something different. and if that doesn't work, you try something different. and if that doesn't work, you try something different.

If the Gophs come out and go RUTM the 1st play against Purdue, I may just chug a quart of whiskey and eat fatty foods the rest of the day.
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I think Fleck has no interest in running a single game, let alone the rest of the season, in a pro-style offense to better suit a Senior QB who, if all things were going great, would have lost the starting job to Croft.

Why make the rest of your offense start learning a pro-style offense for this year, when you're going to a spread next year and every year after.

If he was changing, then we'd be calling him out for being too Brewster-like for changing offenses 3 times in the first two years.
 



At a program like the Gophers were we don't get lots of top end talent every single year, any coach you bring in has to be viewed as a long term solution instead of the first year he is hired.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
Fair enough and I think you offer some good things in this post. I disagree with 5 and we've had that argument before. Who says they haven't done 6 and Rhoda continues to fail to execute? I know they want to keep him healthy, but that doesn't mean he can't pull it a couple of times a game. If you were to suggest these things to the coaching staff do you really think they hadn't thought of them or would have reasons why they don't do it?

Anyone saying the coaching staff made zero adjustments is ridiculous and stupid. If you or someone actually believes that, you haven't played or coached football beyond middle school.
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Fleck said they are doing whatever they can to not have him run. If he says that in a presser, no doubt they've pounded it into Rhoda not to run. Also said there were only a handful of times against MD where the option was there, and Rhoda pulled it twice, one was mishandled and the other he got 6-7 yards. There are a multitude of ways to get the LBs to back off to get the RBs better opportunities and we saw very few used against MD. I expect the staff will make the needed adjustments going forward.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
Fair enough and I think you offer some good things in this post. I disagree with 5 and we've had that argument before. Who says they haven't done 6 and Rhoda continues to fail to execute? I know they want to keep him healthy, but that doesn't mean he can't pull it a couple of times a game. If you were to suggest these things to the coaching staff do you really think they hadn't thought of them or would have reasons why they don't do it?

Anyone saying the coaching staff made zero adjustments is ridiculous and stupid. If you or someone actually believes that, you haven't played or coached football beyond middle school.
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As to my 5th point, we have disagreed on it. You don't think our backs are capable of running outside. I believe they are. To not even try it makes no sense. Maryland had two backs who were good at running outside, but they also tried running plays between the tackles with them, and the winning TD was scored right up the middle. Limiting your offense running plays to a 10 yard area - the distance from tackle to tackle really isn't a sound concept at any level of football.
With 6, PJ has now stated he didn't want to run Rhoda for fear of losing him. That to me is a cop out, because he isn't afraid of losing guys to suspension, why is he afraid of losing guys to injury. Also, that would be like him telling A. Winfield Jr., you can only run at 75% during the game because we don't want you to aggravate your hamstring injury. PJ's decision with Rhoda is hurting the team.

Their adjustments during that game were not good. DJ and Maryland were one step ahead of them the entire game. If you or someone actually believes that they didn't get out coached on Saturday, then you haven't played or coached football beyond middle school. With two weeks to prepare the team for Maryland, that is the biggest disappointment of all.
 

GFBfan said:
As to my 5th point, we have disagreed on it. You don't think our backs are capable of running outside. I believe they are. To not even try it makes no sense. Maryland had two backs who were good at running outside, but they also tried running plays between the tackles with them, and the winning TD was scored right up the middle. Limiting your offense running plays to a 10 yard area - the distance from tackle to tackle really isn't a sound concept at any level of football.
With 6, PJ has now stated he didn't want to run Rhoda for fear of losing him. That to me is a cop out, because he isn't afraid of losing guys to suspension, why is he afraid of losing guys to injury. Also, that would be like him telling A. Winfield Jr., you can only run at 75% during the game because we don't want you to aggravate your hamstring injury. PJ's decision with Rhoda is hurting the team.

Their adjustments during that game were not good. DJ and Maryland were one step ahead of them the entire game. If you or someone actually believes that they didn't get out coached on Saturday, then you haven't played or coached football beyond middle school. With two weeks to prepare the team for Maryland, that is the biggest disappointment of all.
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Coming out of halftime it was obvious adjustments were made that worked. If our normally reliable kicker makes the field goal, we win the 3rd quarter 10-0 and are up 20-17 going into the 4th. No I would not consider that to mean Durkin was ahead of Fleck all day.
 

GFBfan said:
As to my 5th point, we have disagreed on it. You don't think our backs are capable of running outside. I believe they are. To not even try it makes no sense. Maryland had two backs who were good at running outside, but they also tried running plays between the tackles with them, and the winning TD was scored right up the middle. Limiting your offense running plays to a 10 yard area - the distance from tackle to tackle really isn't a sound concept at any level of football.
With 6, PJ has now stated he didn't want to run Rhoda for fear of losing him. That to me is a cop out, because he isn't afraid of losing guys to suspension, why is he afraid of losing guys to injury. Also, that would be like him telling A. Winfield Jr., you can only run at 75% during the game because we don't want you to aggravate your hamstring injury. PJ's decision with Rhoda is hurting the team.

Their adjustments during that game were not good. DJ and Maryland were one step ahead of them the entire game. If you or someone actually believes that they didn't get out coached on Saturday, then you haven't played or coached football beyond middle school. With two weeks to prepare the team for Maryland, that is the biggest disappointment of all.
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I was starting to wonder the same thing...probably why Croft is back.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Coming out of halftime it was obvious adjustments were made that worked. If our normally reliable kicker makes the field goal, we win the 3rd quarter 10-0 and are up 20-17 going into the 4th. No I would not consider that to mean Durkin was ahead of Fleck all day.
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And the final score ended at?
They did not make enough adjustments throughout the game to win it.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Coming out of halftime it was obvious adjustments were made that worked. If our normally reliable kicker makes the field goal, we win the 3rd quarter 10-0 and are up 20-17 going into the 4th. No I would not consider that to mean Durkin was ahead of Fleck all day.
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On that third and 3 at the Maryland 24 or so (just prior to the FG attemp) the QB keep was there. IIRC they brought the safety down but he was so far inside I don think he could have caught Rhoda sprinting for the first down. Just one of several missed opportunities.

It's a game of inches and seconds. Those short QB runs are a "little" thing on the stats sheet but could have kept the drive going and led to a TD or easier FG for our suddenly mortal kicker. Mitch was really good at that.
 

PMWinSTP said:
I was starting to wonder the same thing...probably why Croft is back.
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He's been out two games so unless he's committed something terribly egregious I think that's enough time if he's been toeing the line. Even murderers get admitted to Harvard...
 

short ornery norwegian said:
this gets to my biggest gripe. Fleck said he doesn't want Rhoda running the ball because of the risk of injury. So why the bleepin' bleepin' bleep do you have him running something that appears to be a read option? (I know some say it's not a true read option, but it looks like it).

If your best QB is best suited for a drop-back, I or pro-style offense, then run a drop-back, I or pro-style offense. I know High School coaches who do the same thing. They have "their system," and they are going to run "their system," whether the available talent fits the system or not.

I say, run a system that fits your talent. If that means you have to deviate from what you've done in the past, then do it.

Fleck is trying to shove a square peg in a round hole at QB, and when it doesn't work, he talks about lack of talent. I say lack of imagination.
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Fleck has said "Don’t sacrifice what you want down the road for what you want now. I'm making decisions that effect our future."

Yet you want the coaching staff to implement a style of offense that the majority of players on the team now and the players being recruited to play in will not be running past this year.
 

scools12 said:
Fleck has said "Don’t sacrifice what you want down the road for what you want now. I'm making decisions that effect our future."

Yet you want the coaching staff to implement a style of offense that the majority of players on the team now and the players being recruited to play in will not be running past this year.
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Again, the RPO Fleck runs does not require the QB to run but a few times a game if the opportunity is there. Could have easily had passes over the short middle or mixed in a play action or RB run to the edge. All are things done out of that set. There are plenty of ways to stay in the RPO set and have Rhoda and offense be successful. Those are the adjustments I expect to see starting Saturday.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I have no idea what you're talking about
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You said - "Based on what? Our offense was just as good if not better than it was against Maryland last year. Uninspired? We had a goal line stand on Maryland's 1st drive. The game was tied with just under 4 minutes left in the game. There were missed opportunities by the players all game long. The coaches had the players in a position to win the game. "

I said - "Now it is OK to compare this offense to last year? In a positive light? After you have repeatedly said the opposite?

You just did a 360. And you dont even know it. "

Avoidance.
 

To answer the question....No, Fleck was hired because Coyle wanted a salesman. He climbed his way up as an AD on the marketing sides of departments.

Coyle wanted a marketing type of HC from the moment he got here, and that's what he hired.
 

BarnBurner said:
You said - "Based on what? Our offense was just as good if not better than it was against Maryland last year. Uninspired? We had a goal line stand on Maryland's 1st drive. The game was tied with just under 4 minutes left in the game. There were missed opportunities by the players all game long. The coaches had the players in a position to win the game. "

I said - "Now it is OK to compare this offense to last year? In a positive light? After you have repeatedly said the opposite?

You just did a 360. And you dont even know it. "

Avoidance.
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I think you meant to say he did a 180...?
 





BarnBurner said:
You said - "Based on what? Our offense was just as good if not better than it was against Maryland last year. Uninspired? We had a goal line stand on Maryland's 1st drive. The game was tied with just under 4 minutes left in the game. There were missed opportunities by the players all game long. The coaches had the players in a position to win the game. "

I said - "Now it is OK to compare this offense to last year? In a positive light? After you have repeatedly said the opposite?

You just did a 360. And you dont even know it. "

Avoidance.
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Looking at just the Maryland games, the offense was good enough to beat them by 21 last year and it was good enough to beat them by 21 this year. The defense was not. That’s the point.
 

Fleck was not all-in on Saturday and he won't be all-in this year.

I've never seen a Gopher coach not play to win in a winnable game.

I'm not criticizing! I'm guessing he has his reasons. But we should recognize Saturday's gameplan and execution for what it was: a half-measure.
 

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