B1G Talent

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GopherWeatherGuy said:
It's almost like there's a strong correlation between recruiting rankings and wins! Amazing!
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Team Rankings at the end of each season should then line up based on recruiting rankings of the previous year. Best recruiting ranking wins the nat title and on down.

Not sure why any games are played. Just recruit and you win a title!!

Amazing.
 

DEGopher said:
You need to understand how far Maryland recruiting has come under Durkin. In the last two years he has recruited two top 20 classes, he has UnderArmor doing for MD what Nike did for Oregon. By comparison Minnesota recruiting has ranked in the 40s. MD has recruited better than all but OhSt, Michigan, and Penn St. Minnesota was out matched before the kick off and it was a testament to Fleck that the game was as close as it was.

A loss to Purdue next week, however, will not be the same. While Brohm is a good coach, Purdue doesn’t have a distinct talent advantage over Minnesota. Minnesota should be able to beat Purdue.
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We're talking about a Maryland team that's on their 3rd QB and just lost to UCF 38-10. A testament to Fleck that the game was so close? Maryland has certainly seen a talent upswing, but this wasn't Alabama the Gophers just played. Fans have every right to think their team matches up with Maryland - they were 13+ point favorites for a reason.

Obviously have to give Fleck time to bring in his guys, but it's OK to criticize the team and his performance at the same time.
 

Word said:
Maybe the eventual ceiling will be higher with Fleck if he can recruit better than Kill/Claeys, but I feel like Kill/Claeys were better at getting the most out of their talent.

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I don't necessarily disagree and that is exactly why I would have taken any coach over Claeys and kill. They had hit their ceiling twice and it was as an 8-4 team.

At least give me a coach where I know mediocrity might not be the ceiling.
 

MNBadgerGuy said:
We're talking about a Maryland team that's on their 3rd QB and just lost to UCF 38-10. A testament to Fleck that the game was so close? Maryland has certainly seen a talent upswing, but this wasn't Alabama the Gophers just played. Fans have every right to think their team matches up with Maryland - they were 13+ point favorites for a reason.

Obviously have to give Fleck time to bring in his guys, but it's OK to criticize the team and his performance at the same time.
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Agree. Minnesota should have won yesterday. A beatable team. Two teams that are both pretty average. A close game. Even if they are more talented, you'd rather win close games.


It is okay to say we should have won yesterday.
 

Face The Facts said:
This is really true, and it's a darn good thing we made the coaching switch when we did. Our talent was on a downward spiral with Claeys as the recruiter.
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It is not true. If we had Buford and Harden at the corners we would talking a whole different story today. Duke Mcghee and Croft really let this team down too. We have plenty of talent sans injuries and kids making stupid mistakes preventing them from playing. Probably one of the most embarrassing efforts by our D line in years.
 


gopherjay said:
It is not true. If we had Buford and Harden at the corners we would talking a whole different story today. Duke Mcghee and Croft really let this team down too. We have plenty of talent sans injuries and kids making stupid mistakes preventing them from playing. Probably one of the most embarrassing efforts by our D line in years.
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Only had 4 d linemen who played significant snaps against a fast spread team.
They are going to get tired and worn out. Depth hurt today. Having more good players would've helped. You are correct.
 

BarnBurner said:
Team Rankings at the end of each season should then line up based on recruiting rankings of the previous year. Best recruiting ranking wins the nat title and on down.

Not sure why any games are played. Just recruit and you win a title!!

Amazing.
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Is this your first time watching college football?
 

MNBadgerGuy said:
We're talking about a Maryland team that's on their 3rd QB and just lost to UCF 38-10. A testament to Fleck that the game was so close? Maryland has certainly seen a talent upswing, but this wasn't Alabama the Gophers just played. Fans have every right to think their team matches up with Maryland - they were 13+ point favorites for a reason.

Obviously have to give Fleck time to bring in his guys, but it's OK to criticize the team and his performance at the same time.
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A couple things to point out: UCF may be a top 20 team. They crushed Memphis who beat UCLA. Also, they had a wrk to game plan with their 3rd string QB, that's different than having to put him in in the middle of a game where you may have had a completely different game plan for his skill set.

Depth in the secondary is a real factor for MN. 2 very good starting safeties out can really affect run defense and what you do in the secondary. The Purdue game will be a big challenge. Probably a toss up. They have good players, just lacked good coaching.


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short ornery norwegian said:
To be blunt - there are people on this board who simply will not criticize Fleck or the other coaches. Some of these same people had no trouble criticizing the former coaching staff, but apparently the rules changed along with the coaching staff.
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You are spot on SON. And most here realize it. There are a handful of PJ supporters that wouldn't criticize him for murdering people. He can do no wrong. They are Flecknotized. Of course, when they get called out for it they will just say others are Claeys guys and not objective. One did that just yesterday. Rinse. Repeat.


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So the argument from some is now that MD just had so much more talent that it wasn't realistic to think we should win, even favored by 13, even with 2 weeks to prepare, even against their 3rd QB, even at home. I mean they just have way too much talent - so much more than this Gopher team.
So, unbelievably, incredibly, ridiculous.


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Some Day...Maybe said:
A couple things to point out: UCF may be a top 20 team. They crushed Memphis who beat UCLA. Also, they had a wrk to game plan with their 3rd string QB, that's different than having to put him in in the middle of a game where you may have had a completely different game plan for his skill set.

Depth in the secondary is a real factor for MN. 2 very good starting safeties out can really affect run defense and what you do in the secondary. The Purdue game will be a big challenge. Probably a toss up. They have good players, just lacked good coaching.


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UCF has a dual threat QB that ran for about a hundred vs Maryland. They UCF ran all over them no doubt because the QB as a run threat demands another gap be defended. It's not chess it's checkers. Rhoda is a liability and it's sad we are in this situation.

They also got after the QB while we appeared to sit back in a deep zone allowing their QB to go unmolested and set up all day.It was a tactical choice because they didn't want to give up the big play and they tried to protect our CBs they don't really trust.
 

Spoofin said:
So the argument from some is now that MD just had so much more talent that it wasn't realistic to think we should win, even favored by 13, even with 2 weeks to prepare, even against their 3rd QB, even at home. I mean they just have way too much talent - so much more than this Gopher team.
So, unbelievably, incredibly, ridiculous.
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I haven't seen one person say that. But some posters want to act like we just lost to Rutgers or Illinois. I thought the Gophers would still win yesterday. But I wasn't surprised with the outcome either because Maryland has talent, and they are better than last year.
 

Spoofin said:
So the argument from some is now that MD just had so much more talent that it wasn't realistic to think we should win, even favored by 13, even with 2 weeks to prepare, even against their 3rd QB, even at home. I mean they just have way too much talent - so much more than this Gopher team.
So, unbelievably, incredibly, ridiculous.


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You should ignore those people rather than letting them bother you.

Fact is, an average team lost to an average team yesterday. It happens.
 



Pompous Elitist said:
UCF has a dual threat QB that ran for about a hundred vs Maryland. They UCF ran all over them no doubt because the QB as a run threat demands another gap be defended. It's not chess it's checkers. Rhoda is a liability and it's sad we are in this situation.

They also got after the QB while we appeared to sit back in a deep zone allowing their QB to go unmolested and set up all day.It was a tactical choice because they didn't want to give up the big play and they tried to protect our CBs they don't really trust.
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As so many have stated, we lacked the athletes to compete. Coaching had nothing to do with this game. Recruiting in past years did. I would imagine that all the Big Ten coaches are licking their chops about the lack of mobility at QB. Not having a QB that is mobile but also can throw is not coaching, it's about past years recruiting. Not having more than 4 defensive tackles is about recruiting, not present day coaching. Not having cornerbacks that can cover, is not about coaching, it's about recruiting.
I truly doubt that TC would have made any difference. Always remember the other team also practices.
 

Pete smith said:
As so many have stated, we lacked the athletes to compete. Coaching had nothing to do with this game. Recruiting in past years did. I would imagine that all the Big Ten coaches are licking their chops about the lack of mobility at QB. Not having a QB that is mobile but also can throw is not coaching, it's about past years recruiting. Not having more than 4 defensive tackles is about recruiting, not present day coaching. Not having cornerbacks that can cover, is not about coaching, it's about recruiting.
I truly doubt that TC would have made any difference. Always remember the other team also practices.
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We're not taking advantage of the players we have. It's that simple. We were in fact limited on defense but it was a choice to avoid living dangerously or gamble if you wish.

The guys didn't have fire and didn't execute well at times. Part of that is innate but I was surprised to see a Fleck team look so flat.
 

Spoofin said:
So the argument from some is now that MD just had so much more talent that it wasn't realistic to think we should win, even favored by 13, even with 2 weeks to prepare, even against their 3rd QB, even at home. I mean they just have way too much talent - so much more than this Gopher team.
So, unbelievably, incredibly, ridiculous.


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No. I think people are saying that watching the game, Maryland was clearly a more athletic team. Are you disputing that?

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short ornery norwegian said:
To be blunt - there are people on this board who simply will not criticize Fleck or the other coaches. Some of these same people had no trouble criticizing the former coaching staff, but apparently the rules changed along with the coaching staff.
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Just like you who has no problem criticizing the current coaching staff while continuing to kneel at the Altar of Kill/Claeys.


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goldy93 said:
No. I think people are saying that watching the game, Maryland was clearly a more athletic team. Are you disputing that?

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At some positions - but the idea that we didn't have the talent to win, or that we should have won going away, is nonsense. This was one of the biggest upsets at TCF Bank stadium and rather than criticizing the coaches for an unprepared, uninspired team and for a terrible game plan that they refused to adjust, we hear about recruiting rankings and how good MD is and blame previous coaching staffs. You really can't make up how flecknotized some are.


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scools12 said:
Just like you who has no problem criticizing the current coaching staff while continuing to kneel at the Altar of Kill/Claeys.


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More Rubber and Glue.


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GopherWeatherGuy said:
Yes. Minnesota had players that were better and Maryland had players that were worse.
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This years Maryland team has much more talent than last year. Last year, Durkin was mostly playing with a lot of what was left over from the dreadful Edsall years with the addition of some talent he recruited in the mix. But this year, the team is infused with Durkin's first full recruiting cycle which was very good. 2018 is shaping up for another very good class from him. The DMV is talent rich and Durkin and his staff is getting it. Maryland just also build a state of the art indoor football facility which is amazing. He definitely has it going in the right direction.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
It's PJ Fleck in Concert - the "No Expectations" tour!

So, just out of curiosity, when are Gopher fans allowed to have expectations? 2 years - 3 years - 10 years - never?

We keep being told that Fleck is a better coach and a better recruiter - but we can't expect him to win as many games as the departed bad coach and bad recruiter. Why? Because.
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Yes, and Fleck is being paid three times as much as Claeys, his assistants (no idea how much in comparison to coach Claeys)? Fleck is being presented as an elite program builder.

Though I actually like Fleck and really want him to be successful, I still think he (and his staff) did a very poor job of coaching. I know he is aware of it, so this is really toward the Fleck can never do wrong crowd. Fleck is getting paid three times as much as the previous staff. I have no idea what his assistants are getting paid, but I am guessing their pay is higher as well. Fleck and staff have a responsibility to the current players. Not just these (higher ranked) better recruits that might come to Minnesota. Even with the piss poor coaching job yesterday, the players played hard and maybe could have won that game. The coaches failed them with a flawed game plan and a system that does NOT put them in position to win.

That is NOT ELITE.
 

Spoofin said:
At some positions - but the idea that we didn't have the talent to win, or that we should have won going away, is nonsense. This was one of the biggest upsets at TCF Bank stadium and rather than criticizing the coaches for an unprepared, uninspired team and for a terrible game plan that they refused to adjust, we hear about recruiting rankings and how good MD is and blame previous coaching staffs. You really can't make up how flecknotized some are.


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Which positions did you think we looked more skilled? Kicker? QB? No one is excusing the coaching staff for anything, but some of us at the game were alarmed by how much faster and more athletic Maryland was and some of us just want to ignore it.

They also act like we lost 55-0. It was 7 point game.

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Spoofin said:
So the argument from some is now that MD just had so much more talent that it wasn't realistic to think we should win, even favored by 13, even with 2 weeks to prepare, even against their 3rd QB, even at home. I mean they just have way too much talent - so much more than this Gopher team.
So, unbelievably, incredibly, ridiculous.


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YEs, that is accurate.

Courtesy of weather guy.
 

Some guy said:
You should ignore those people rather than letting them bother you.

Fact is, an average team lost to an average team yesterday. It happens.
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Hold on - weather guy and yourself appear to be saying our talent is so far below MD. Therefore if Maryland is average there is no way MN is average.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
We're not taking advantage of the players we have. It's that simple. We were in fact limited on defense but it was a choice to avoid living dangerously or gamble if you wish.

The guys didn't have fire and didn't execute well at times. Part of that is innate but I was surprised to see a Fleck team look so flat.
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Remember the recent past when Kill/Claeys led teams came out flat? The same folks that wont call it out now were crowing then.
 

BarnBurner said:
Remember the recent past when Kill/Claeys led teams came out flat? The same folks that wont call it out now were crowing then.
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I remember the recent past when Kills/Claeys teams came out flat they same people crowing now wouldn’t call it out then.


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I can admit we came out flat, didn't have a great gameplan and didn't make good in-game adjustments.

But can the Claeysites admit the following:

1. As GWG accurately stated, last we year we had Myrick, Travis, Winfield and Hardin at DB. 2 of those guys are now in the NFL, a 3rd will be, and the 4th might have been. Yesterday we had Shenault, Kiondre Thomas, Jacob Huff and Ayinde. Not even remotely the same level of talent at DB.
2. On the o-line we have 2 underclassmen and first year starters (Olson and Connelly) and 3 JUCOs who with 1 year of experience. Not exactly the stuff that great lines are made of. Having Weyler injured has hurt us. Having Moore and Mayes transfer hurt as well.
3. We have 1 legitimate B1G DE that is playing - Winston D. A senior DE who can play the run like Elmore would have made a big difference yesterday.
4. Our starting QB was a walk-on that no one ever expected to see starting. Maryland's 3rd string QB had comparable/better skills than our starter.
5. WR is an absolute cluster. We all knew that Still needed to have a big year for us to be average at WR. He's been MIA all year. The two promising freshmen, Bell and Douglass, have been hampered with injuries. Where is the proven upperclassmen at WR?
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Maryland is the 4th most talented team in the B1G according to 247. The Gophers are 12th. We're not going to get to where we want until Fleck increases the talent. Our lack of speed and athleticism at the skill positions on offense and defense was obvious today.

https://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite?Conference=Big-Ten
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Yes, and it showed greatly. Claeys had no long-term chance, he couldn't recruit...he was coaching with Kill's recruits. Claeys did an OK job with those recruits, but the future didn't bode well under Claeys at the helm. PJ gave the program life. A turnaround isn't going to happen in one season, folks.
 

BarnBurner said:
Team Rankings at the end of each season should then line up based on recruiting rankings of the previous year. Best recruiting ranking wins the nat title and on down.

Not sure why any games are played. Just recruit and you win a title!!

Amazing.
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Well, they play the games, and it ends up that the teams with top 5 recruiting classes over the past 3 years make it to the playoffs.

So pretty much the sport plays out as you say, “just recruit and you win a title.”
 

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