The Gophers Quarterback Situation

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CentralGopher said:
I don't care who it is I just want to see us win games. I'm just saying that he played in a small school in outstate where players tend to go unnoticed. From what I have heard he was a bit of a steal as a PWO.


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If you want us to win games, I’d suggest not putting a what, 5th string freshman PWO in there. Alexandria and the big ten are extremely different animals
 

RatherBeGolfing said:
If you want us to win games, I’d suggest not putting a what, 5th string freshman PWO in there. Alexandria and the big ten are extremely different animals
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If you say so. There are plenty of examples of outstate players and walk ons that have done well at this level.


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Morgan used to be taller, but he was out on a boat one day, and it went through this funny mist, and now he keeps getting shorter...........
 


What is the situation regarding Croft? All I know is from what pj said he is dealing with a personal issue.
 

Morgan is definitely short. Disappointingly so.
It would be hard for me to imagine Croft playing for the Gophers. You hear PJ wax on about the importance of leadership X 10 for quarterback. How can you trust somebody with your team who let everybody down significantly enough to be away from the team? This isn't a "CATASTROPHIC" interception boo boo, it's a major F up...whatever it is. Seems unlikely to me he sees the field for PJ...barring unimaginable dire need...but I also have no idea what he did. Could PJ be making a statement and it's largely drama that Croft is awol? Seems doubtful, but I don't know why he's away from the team, so absolutes are more difficult to predict.
 


PJ has repeatedly stated he's Big on "statements, e.g. The scholarship awards, team outings. He's making an example of Croft and Still and Devers and the unnamed player but I would imagine if they change their ways sufficiently Fleck will greet them like prodigal sons. He will likely need them in some way, shape, or form to move his train down the track, particularly the unnamed player and the QB. There's no spreading of the culture if you're fired for losing winnable games this year, losing recruiting mo, losing fan mo, losing in future years. So a healthy détente is probably a good place to be for all parties.
 



Pompous Elitist said:
PJ has repeatedly stated he's Big on "statements, e.g. The scholarship awards, team outings. He's making an example of Croft and Still and Devers and the unnamed player but I would imagine if they change their ways sufficiently Fleck will greet them like prodigal sons. He will likely need them in some way, shape, or form to move his train down the track, particularly the unnamed player and the QB. There's no spreading of the culture if you're fired for losing winnable games this year, losing recruiting mo, losing fan mo, losing in future years. So a healthy détente is probably a good place to be for all parties.
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PJ is not going to be fired for losing any time soon....several years. (Plus, he's not gonna lose) But he is adamant about changing the culture. So even if it wasn't broke he's gonna demonstrate it was, seems more likely course to me. Successful coaches, in general, pretty much all cut bait. It's tough to discipline welcoming offenders back. Far more effective to make examples early in your timeline. He can lose games to prove a point for a couple years establishing his culture. This seems far more likely to me than going Mother Teresa benevolent. Any hint of weakness is disaster as a coach. My way or the highway is a cliche in sports for a reason.
 

CentralGopher said:
If you say so. There are plenty of examples of outstate players and walk ons that have done well at this level.


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I don't have anything against walk ons, I think they're huge to the success of a program like ours. My point is that putting true freshman walk ons in at QB in the Big Ten is a terrible idea. I get it, you like him because he lives outside the metro like you and you want him to succeed because he's from a small town in greater MN. The reality is he's about our 5th option right now.
 

GoldenGopherTilTheEnd said:
Seriously. I don't think he's even 6'. Croft, Green, and Rhoda tower over him.
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He is still the shortest out of the bunch regardless:

No----Name----------Ht------Wt---Class----Hometown
15----Rhoda---------6-3-----225--RS-SR---Eagan, Minn. (Cretin-Derham Hall HS)
17----Green---------6-4-----229--RS-FR---Woodbury, Minn. (Allen HS)
11----Croft----------6-5-----205--RS-SO---Rockford, Ill. (Boylan HS)
13----Morgan-------6-2-----205--FR--------Union, Ky. (Ryle HS)
19----Pickerign-----6-4-----224--FR--------Alpharetta, Ga. (Minnehaha Academy)
14----Roste---------6-3-----234--FR--------Alexandria, Minn. (Alexandria HS)

Scout and Rivals listed him as 6' 1" while 247SPorts listed him as 6' 1" in the commitment summary, and as 6' 2" in the bio page.

People are saying they think he is much shorter.

What matters is that PJF, who himself was a diminutive player, saw something in Tanner Morgan that is good enough for a scholarship offer. Rusell Wilson is only 5' 11", just saying.
 

60's Guy said:
PJ is not going to be fired for losing any time soon....several years. (Plus, he's not gonna lose) But he is adamant about changing the culture. So even if it wasn't broke he's gonna demonstrate it was, seems more likely course to me. Successful coaches, in general, pretty much all cut bait. It's tough to discipline welcoming offenders back. Far more effective to make examples early in your timeline. He can lose games to prove a point for a couple years establishing his culture. This seems far more likely to me than going Mother Teresa benevolent. Any hint of weakness is disaster as a coach. My way or the highway is a cliche in sports for a reason.
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I get what you're saying and obviously he would never be be fired for at least 4 years but I've come to find his press conferences near-unlistenable due to the strident tone. These are young men not sixth graders. IMO it's possible to go overboard on the tough guy routine and if it isn't fairly applied it's a net negative and it's all too easy to be inconsistent (most parents, managers struggle with this and they don't have 100+ kids) I'm not saying that's the case and undoubtedly the suspended or dismissed guys earned their discipline.
 



hungan1 said:
He is still the shortest out of the bunch regardless:

No----Name----------Ht------Wt---Class----Hometown
15----Rhoda---------6-3-----225--RS-SR---Eagan, Minn. (Cretin-Derham Hall HS)
17----Green---------6-4-----229--RS-FR---Woodbury, Minn. (Allen HS)
11----Croft----------6-5-----205--RS-SO---Rockford, Ill. (Boylan HS)
13----Morgan-------6-2-----205--FR--------Union, Ky. (Ryle HS)
19----Pickerign-----6-4-----224--FR--------Alpharetta, Ga. (Minnehaha Academy)
14----Roste---------6-3-----234--FR--------Alexandria, Minn. (Alexandria HS)

Scout and Rivals listed him as 6' 1" while 247SPorts listed him as 6' 1" in the commitment summary, and as 6' 2" in the bio page.

People are saying they think he is much shorter.

What matters is that PJF, who himself was a diminutive player, saw something in Tanner Morgan that is good enough for a scholarship offer. Rusell Wilson is only 5' 11", just saying.
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In my observations generally speaking listed heights are a good inch, sometimes upwards of 2 in excess of reality. If I had to guess Morgan is in that 5' 11" - 6 foot range. But it doesn't matter if he has other attributes in spades. I'll be excited to see him play if that comes to fruition.
 

I hope Morgan is a star. Being short doesn't mean he will fail or shouldn't be given his chance. As stated, it is a personal bias of mine with QBs where my excitement for them decreases when I realize my 14-year old would tower over them.


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Pompous Elitist said:
I get what you're saying and obviously he would never be be fired for at least 4 years but I've come to find his press conferences near-unlistenable due to the strident tone. These are young men not sixth graders. IMO it's possible to go overboard on the tough guy routine and if it isn't fairly applied it's a net negative and it's all too easy to be inconsistent (most parents, managers struggle with this and they don't have 100+ kids) I'm not saying that's the case and undoubtedly the suspended or dismissed guys earned their discipline.
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He's taking advantage of that "honeymoon/new sheriff" window. As mentioned earlier, I think most new HCs try to take advantage of the it in some way to establish that it's "their" program now.
 

RatherBeGolfing said:
I don't have anything against walk ons, I think they're huge to the success of a program like ours. My point is that putting true freshman walk ons in at QB in the Big Ten is a terrible idea. I get it, you like him because he lives outside the metro like you and you want him to succeed because he's from a small town in greater MN. The reality is he's about our 5th option right now.
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I never said he wasn't likely the 5th option right now. His being from outside the metro also has nothing to do with me liking him or not either. I just doubt there are many aside from the coaching staffthat have a real good idea what his abilities are.


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Pompous Elitist said:
In my observations generally speaking listed heights are a good inch, sometimes upwards of 2 in excess of reality. If I had to guess Morgan is in that 5' 11" - 6 foot range. But it doesn't matter if he has other attributes in spades. I'll be excited to see him play if that comes to fruition.
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Yeah, KJ Maye lost two inches when he went to the NFL. Seems the shorter they are the more leeway they take, 5'6" = 5'8" but 6'0" might be 6'1"
 

We could all list shorter QB's who have been successful, and taller QB's who were not successful. Obviously, the issue with a shorter QB is visibility. to some extent, you have to design the offense to accommodate the QB - more roll-outs, etc. It ultimately depends on the coach, his system, and how willing that coach is to make adjustments to fit specific players.
 

Still is back this week, so maybe the chances that Croft returns are not so unlikely.
 

I have greatly enjoyed reading this thread. I have watched Roste play upwards of 15 times. He has the size. He has the arm. He has the wheels. Does he have "it" at the Big Ten level? Dunno that. He is a good kid and is smart. But the college QB ranks are littered with similar guys that didn't make it. He was a steal as a PWO. Still faces long odds. My official position is he is better than his PWO status indicates but I am sure he is not ready to start a Big Ten game for us. I really hope he turns into something as a QB as I am sure all of us do. I would love to here what the coaches have to say about him. Alexandria is a 5A school, so not that small and has an awesome facility. Decker, Andries, Spann-Ford, Thielen all came from that conference or even smaller schools.
 

WriterGoph said:
Still is back this week, so maybe the chances that Croft returns are not so unlikely.
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Pretty near impossible to know, without knowing why any of them are gone. Seems unlikely it's all for the same reason.
 



Good for Demry- hope he realizes the opportunity he's been given and takes advantage of it. Don't know anybody who hasn't erred before so hopefully he'll earn another chance to be with the team soon.


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Tigger said:
I have greatly enjoyed reading this thread. I have watched Roste play upwards of 15 times. He has the size. He has the arm. He has the wheels. Does he have "it" at the Big Ten level? Dunno that. He is a good kid and is smart. But the college QB ranks are littered with similar guys that didn't make it. He was a steal as a PWO. Still faces long odds. My official position is he is better than his PWO status indicates but I am sure he is not ready to start a Big Ten game for us. I really hope he turns into something as a QB as I am sure all of us do. I would love to here what the coaches have to say about him. Alexandria is a 5A school, so not that small and has an awesome facility. Decker, Andries, Spann-Ford, Thielen all came from that conference or even smaller schools.
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All we have to do is take a look at Conor Rhoda's career. He started as a PWO. He worked hard, has a good attitude and waited his turn. IMHO, don't count Roste out completely. There is a reason why he was invited to be a PWO. He's a quality kid.

He did not get a lot of exposure like the metro area kids. If he is a really good player it will manifest itself in the years to come.
 

hungan1 said:
All we have to do is take a look at Conor Rhoda's career. He started as a PWO. He worked hard, has a good attitude and waited his turn. IMHO, don't count Roste out completely. There is a reason why he was invited to be a PWO. He's a quality kid.

He did not get a lot of exposure like the metro area kids. If he is a really good player it will manifest itself in the years to come.
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+1


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pharmacygopher said:
It would be nice to keep multiple QBs around for 4-5 years to develop. It seems like we've had higher than average QB turnover and have lost QBs that at a minimum would have been good depth (Parish, Shortell, Nelson, Streveler, McKinzy, Perra-wo).

The odds of this happening are likely next to 0 but if we have no QB transfers/suspensions and if everyone took a redshirt, it would be nice to have depth like this in a few years:

Sr Croft
Jr Green
So Morgan
Fr Armstrong
true Fr recruit (Bachmeier?)

It doesn't exactly strike fear, but I'd prefer if this was our QB depth this season (I think the years are accurate-ish):

Sr Streveler, Rhoda
Jr McKinzy, Perra
So Croft
Fr Green
true Fr Morgan


It would be nice to have some seasoned depth. Consider that the last time we had the Axe, it wasn't Asad Abdul-Khaliq that finished the game, it was Benji Kamrath.
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I hope things cleared up with Croft as soon as possible. We need him to stick around. The QBs behind him need time to mature and develop. We would have loved it if Streveler had stuck around. The QB position is one area that I was really disappointed with during the Kill/Claeys era. Thank goodness for PJF inviting Rhoda back. We would have been in much dire circumstances.
 

hungan1 said:
All we have to do is take a look at Conor Rhoda's career. He started as a PWO. He worked hard, has a good attitude and waited his turn. IMHO, don't count Roste out completely. There is a reason why he was invited to be a PWO. He's a quality kid.

He did not get a lot of exposure like the metro area kids. If he is a really good player it will manifest itself in the years to come.
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“In the years to come” is the main point here. I don’t think anyone is ruling him out down the road, there’s always the chance they develop. My point to Central Gopher was that it’s laughable to suggest that he may be a legitimate option this year
 

RatherBeGolfing said:
“In the years to come” is the main point here. I don’t think anyone is ruling him out down the road, there’s always the chance they develop. My point to Central Gopher was that it’s laughable to suggest that he may be a legitimate option this year
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And if you look back at my posts you will see that I never said he was. You're simply making something out of nothing. Beyond any of the first three options there aren't any legitimate options. It is silly to assume one first year player would play ahead of another if the first 3 options were not available in some ridiculous scenario though based solely on the fact that one has a scholarship and one doesn't when you really don't have any idea about the skills of the players.


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