Rhoda and the previous regime

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KillerGopherFan said:
One did. As a matter of fact, he declined an invite to the Vikings mini-camp for a tryout to make the transfer. The other guys just moved on with the life. Rogers transferred, but was handicapped by his injury history at Minn. But Claeys should've given him a chance to return given that. Rhoda obviously didn't accept Claeys decision. The kid has balls obviously and wasn't going to let someone else dictate his future.
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Ok, Bobek. If you're the head coach and you have a very injury-prone player who missed the majority of the season (again) and has already been passed on the depth chart by a true freshman, why would you keep him around? He ended up recovering and had a great season as one of the best players on a bad Iowa St. team. That's great for him, but he would've been very unlikely to see the field, healthy or otherwise, on a much better Minnesota team in 2016. Rogers, same thing. Again, most players who've graduated, particularly those who are injury-prone, are not brought back by the coach.

And I don't know what you're even trying to say with the Rhoda thing. The only reason that he didn't have to "accept" Claeys' decision was because Claeys lost his job. Saying macho things like "he wasn't going to let someone else dictate his future" is really manly and all, but almost everyone on the planet has their future dictated for them by someone else. His future was dictated for him by P.J. Fleck, but you like Fleck so in that case it's a good thing.
 

PitinoFan said:
Look at all the time Rhoda has had to survey the field. All day for the most part. We've yet to give up a sack in two games. I'm no Leidner fan, but he might have thrived in Fleck's system too.


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I recall the Gophs didn't give up a sack through the first three games last year
 

PitinoFan said:
Probably getting ahead of myself here, but if Rhoda plays like that all season, and improves in some areas, he'll get some NFL looks, like Leidner did. I still need to see his deep ball though.


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Yes you're ahead of yourself


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dpodoll68 said:
Ok, Bobek. If you're the head coach and you have a very injury-prone player who missed the majority of the season (again) and has already been passed on the depth chart by a true freshman, why would you keep him around? He ended up recovering and had a great season as one of the best players on a bad Iowa St. team. That's great for him, but he would've been very unlikely to see the field, healthy or otherwise, on a much better Minnesota team in 2016. Rogers, same thing. Again, most players who've graduated, particularly those who are injury-prone, are not brought back by the coach.

And I don't know what you're even trying to say with the Rhoda thing. The only reason that he didn't have to "accept" Claeys' decision was because Claeys lost his job. Saying macho things like "he wasn't going to let someone else dictate his future" is really manly and all, but almost everyone on the planet has their future dictated for them by someone else. His future was dictated for him by P.J. Fleck, but you like Fleck so in that case it's a good thing.
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Actually, Bobek played on a Iowa State team that set many school records for offensive totals. Their offense was very productive. Something that Kill and Claeys weren't so successful at. And, apparently the Vikings saw something in the time that he played to invite him to their rookie mini-camp. And you say injury prone. Do you know his medical history? 5 OLs had season ending concussions in 2015. Were they all "injury prone"? And, "passed on the depth chart by a true freshman"? Bobek was the starter until injured. I heard from Gopher OL players and an unnamed QB that that freshman didn't know his butt from a hole in the ground as a soph, and that's why he left. He wasn't pleasing Bart Miller at all. That player transferred before TC and Miller were fired. Does that tell you anything?
I've told you before, I coached HS football. I've known many of these coaches. JK, Limegrover, and many other B1G coaches. Then you made some smarmy comment about me being a big shot. No, I just know what I'm talking about. I have some insight on the situation. And you're just guessing.
BTW, I spoke to Bart Miller on two occasions when came to visit our high school, a few months after getting the job. He told me that he was trying to patch together an O line and that he regretted not having Bobek. What did he say when he spoke to you?
 



Gotta give Fleck some play calling credit. That throw to Johnson for the TD was set up with many RUTM plays. Then a little play action and Rhoda throws the ball so that his guy can actually run with the ball after he catches it. Leidner never could hit his receivers in stride. He often through the ball low and the play was dead after the ball was caught. Rhoda is no speedster but he can extend plays and continues to look down field while buying a little time. All this being said, the competition was very poor.
 

HoustonTXGopher said:
I recall the Gophs didn't give up a sack through the first three games last year
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No, they gave up a safety and a big loss when the center snapped the ball over ML7's head twice in one game (Oregon St).
And the key to not giving up sacks is getting the ball off quickly. How many times did ML7 sit in the pocket and throw a long pass?
That stat was a joke. The Gophers were a running team thanks to Smith and Brooks. TC said he wanted "road graders". I didn't see a ton of road grading and unfortunately still don't b/c of what TC left Fleck.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Ok, Bobek. If you're the head coach and you have a very injury-prone player who missed the majority of the season (again) and has already been passed on the depth chart by a true freshman, why would you keep him around? He ended up recovering and had a great season as one of the best players on a bad Iowa St. team. That's great for him, but he would've been very unlikely to see the field, healthy or otherwise, on a much better Minnesota team in 2016. Rogers, same thing. Again, most players who've graduated, particularly those who are injury-prone, are not brought back by the coach.
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So only players who see the field are deserving of scholarships? In that case, better, cut back the schollys by about 30, because we're giving out way too many.
 



KillerGopherFan said:
Actually, Bobek played on a Iowa State team that set many school records for offensive totals. Their offense was very productive. Something that Kill and Claeys weren't so successful at. And, apparently the Vikings saw something in the time that he played to invite him to their rookie mini-camp. And you say injury prone. Do you know his medical history? 5 OLs had season ending concussions in 2015. Were they all "injury prone"? And, "passed on the depth chart by a true freshman"? Bobek was the starter until injured. I heard from Gopher OL players and an unnamed QB that that freshman didn't know his butt from a hole in the ground as a soph, and that's why he left. He wasn't pleasing Bart Miller at all. That player transferred before TC and Miller were fired. Does that tell you anything?
I've told you before, I coached HS football. I've known many of these coaches. JK, Limegrover, and many other B1G coaches. Then you made some smarmy comment about me being a big shot. No, I just know what I'm talking about. I have some insight on the situation. And you're just guessing.
BTW, I spoke to Bart Miller on two occasions when came to visit our high school, a few months after getting the job. He told me that he was trying to patch together an O line and that he regretted not having Bobek. What did he say when he spoke to you?
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There it is. The "I know better than you, because I coached HS football" card. Using your own logic, Tracy Claeys advanced far higher up the ladder than you have or ever will. Again, using your own logic, you have no right to question anything he said or did, because he was a college football head coach, and you aren't.
 

joshvanklomp said:
So only players who see the field are deserving of scholarships? In that case, better, cut back the schollys by about 30, because we're giving out way too many.
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Yeah, nobody said that. Stop trying so hard.
 

joshvanklomp said:
So only players who see the field are deserving of scholarships? In that case, better, cut back the schollys by about 30, because we're giving out way too many.
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dpodoll is just interested in saving face for being a TC fan. He'll support whatever theory backs his belief that TC was a head coach. TC wasn't equipped to be a head coach. It's been debated ad nauseam. Not interested in reigniting that. It's pointless.
The truth is coaches make all kinds of decisions. When they make a bad decision on the field, like RUTM on 3rd and long, everybody sees it. When they screw up time management at the end of a half or game, everybody sees it. When they make poor personnel decisions with the sometimes exception of the QB, it's rarely seen. Some of the decisions are scheme and fit decisions. Some are just poor decisions.
Jerry Kill didn't want to play David Cobb. Cobb had 3 RBs ahead of him his junior year and the RB coach told him "this is your last chance" before Fall 2013 camp. Cobb was still 4th string going into the UNLV game. Injuries and lousy results forced Cobb on the field. He ripped off a 60 yard run in that game. He played more each week, but wasn't THE starter until half the season had passed.
My god, it's right in front of them and they don't want to play the kid, but circumstances forced them to play him and he's fricking All Big Ten. Then JK says he "changed his attitude". No Coach, you changed your attitude.
It happens all the time and most are never known.
 




A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Is this like the Mitch isn't a P5 QB thing?

He was, and TC was a head coach...
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Yeah, sort of like that. And I believe Mitch was a good QB, but he was handicapped by a disfunctional staff situation. TC didn't think Limegrover was a good OC. Maybe he wasn't, but Limegrover was just trying to please JK.
 

50PoundHead said:
I think this plays a bigger part in what we've seen so far than anything else. Johnson never really had the chance to match personnel with his system, but Limegrover's passing game was pretty much Pop Warner in its design.
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Bingo. I have seen more crossing routes in these first 2 games than the last 2 years. Rhoda has been pretty good but having some open WR's helps alot.
 

dpodoll68 said:
There it is. The "I know better than you, because I coached HS football" card. Using your own logic, Tracy Claeys advanced far higher up the ladder than you have or ever will. Again, using your own logic, you have no right to question anything he said or did, because he was a college football head coach, and you aren't.
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No, I actually played college football too.
Seriously, this isn't about knowing more than a coach. It is about knowing more than you. Why? B/c you didn't believe that I could have any insight that you don't. Sorry, I do for a bunch of reasons.
Coaches disagree all the time about choices. Was JK an idiot for not making Cobb his #1 RB going into his junior year? No. He just made a horrible personnel decision, and Cobb proved that.
Coaches get called out all the time for decisions they make. Are you saying you'd never question a decision that a coach makes b/c they know more?
This conversation was about Rhoda and other players that TC didn't have faith in, and his decision to pull their scholarship instead of allow them to return to Minnesota to compete for a position.
That's one thing that I quesitoned about TC after you asked for examples. I'm not saying that I'm incapable of making a poor decision as a coach, but I will tell you that college coaching is about recruiting and selecting the right athletes to play for you. The better you are at those two things, the more successful you'll be.
 

Hates Monikers said:
Croft played at Northwestern because Mitch had been terrible to that point of the season. And while I don't think it was Leidner's fault, the entire offense was abysmal at NW. I'm convinced the staff was ready to make a change to Croft -- or at least start giving him more time in upcoming games -- but then Leidner was pretty good the rest if the season.

Why Croft and not Rhoda (or Streveler) is the question. Just further evidence that both Kill and Claeys saw value in Croft they didn't see in the others.

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Streveler had another of those 400 yard games - 300 passing. But that's at South Dakota. Still, you wonder...Streveler, Rhoda, Croft. Leidner was not a natural runner and his passing was wildly on-again, off-again, though when on he had some great games. But the last three coaches were deficient in developing QBs.
 

KillerGopherFan said:
No, I actually played college football too.
Seriously, this isn't about knowing more than a coach. It is about knowing more than you. Why? B/c you didn't believe that I could have any insight that you don't. Sorry, I do for a bunch of reasons.
Coaches disagree all the time about choices. Was JK an idiot for not making Cobb his #1 RB going into his junior year? No. He just made a horrible personnel decision, and Cobb proved that.
Coaches get called out all the time for decisions they make. Are you saying you'd never question a decision that a coach makes b/c they know more?
This conversation was about Rhoda and other players that TC didn't have faith in, and his decision to pull their scholarship instead of allow them to return to Minnesota to compete for a position.
That's one thing that I quesitoned about TC after you asked for examples. I'm not saying that I'm incapable of making a poor decision as a coach, but I will tell you that college coaching is about recruiting and selecting the right athletes to play for you. The better you are at those two things, the more successful you'll be.
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I don't doubt at all that you have access that I don't, mostly because I don't have any access at all. I'm saying that the validity of your assessments is very suspect owing to the clear and obvious bias you have against Claeys. He no doubt made mistakes, but few would take the decision of cutting 5th-year players with severe and repeated injury histories, players who had little chance of playing for him (decisions that would be made in the same way by virtually any coach in his shoes) and call them "big mistakes". If anything, he did them a favor by giving them a chance to latch on elsewhere and get a chance to play, something that he judged wasn't going to be likely here.

Likewise, Rhoda was a horrible fit for the Johnson offense, and would've probably been 3rd- or 4th-string here as a 5th-year senior. Once again, most any coach would've made the same decision in his shoes, particularly for a player who had already graduated, let alone one who started as a walk-on.

Many people look at these types of decisions without context and assume that they're malicious and evil, not to mention anomalous. They aren't - they are incredibly commonplace. As a highly respected HS football coach, you should realize these things and take them into account. You can't come close to anything resembling an objective assessment, because you hate Claeys.
 

KillerGopherFan said:
Actually, Bobek played on a Iowa State team that set many school records for offensive totals. Their offense was very productive. Something that Kill and Claeys weren't so successful at. And, apparently the Vikings saw something in the time that he played to invite him to their rookie mini-camp. And you say injury prone. Do you know his medical history? 5 OLs had season ending concussions in 2015. Were they all "injury prone"? And, "passed on the depth chart by a true freshman"? Bobek was the starter until injured. I heard from Gopher OL players and an unnamed QB that that freshman didn't know his butt from a hole in the ground as a soph, and that's why he left. He wasn't pleasing Bart Miller at all. That player transferred before TC and Miller were fired. Does that tell you anything?
I've told you before, I coached HS football. I've known many of these coaches. JK, Limegrover, and many other B1G coaches. Then you made some smarmy comment about me being a big shot. No, I just know what I'm talking about. I have some insight on the situation. And you're just guessing.
BTW, I spoke to Bart Miller on two occasions when came to visit our high school, a few months after getting the job. He told me that he was trying to patch together an O line and that he regretted not having Bobek. What did he say when he spoke to you?
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It is hard for you to have an discussion with someone who isn't listening, thinks they know it all, is too lazy to look up the information, has no experience or knowledge of the situation and has an agenda to accomplish.
It is obvious to everyone that the prior staff didn't know how to coach QB, or WR's.


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dpodoll68 said:
I don't doubt at all that you have access that I don't, mostly because I don't have any access at all. I'm saying that the validity of your assessments is very suspect owing to the clear and obvious bias you have against Claeys. He no doubt made mistakes, but few would take the decision of cutting 5th-year players with severe and repeated injury histories, players who had little chance of playing for him (decisions that would be made in the same way by virtually any coach in his shoes) and call them "big mistakes". If anything, he did them a favor by giving them a chance to latch on elsewhere and get a chance to play, something that he judged wasn't going to be likely here.

Likewise, Rhoda was a horrible fit for the Johnson offense, and would've probably been 3rd- or 4th-string here as a 5th-year senior. Once again, most any coach would've made the same decision in his shoes, particularly for a player who had already graduated, let alone one who started as a walk-on.

Many people look at these types of decisions without context and assume that they're malicious and evil, not to mention anomalous. They aren't - they are incredibly commonplace. As a highly respected HS football coach, you should realize these things and take them into account. You can't come close to anything resembling an objective assessment, because you hate Claeys.
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Ding! Ding! Ding! Dpodoll, just stay down on the mat, it is a very one-sided TKO. You look more and more foolish by each reply!


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Let sleeping dogs lay and move on. Deal with the here and now.
 

alchemy2u said:
Ding! Ding! Ding! Dpodoll, just stay down on the mat, it is a very one-sided TKO. You look more and more foolish by each reply!
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Butt out. Go post some more in the Title IX thread - you have a monopoly on looking foolish.
 


So far he seems to be more consistent as a throw than Leidner ever was.

Leidner could make a throw, but he really had some awful ones as well.

No running game from Rhoda. If he can grab his free 5 yards when it's there and slide, that's the best you can hope for from Rhoda.
 

I'm not sure why the concept of players fitting different schemes better or worse is such a difficult concept for people to understand.

Rhoda was an ok fit (especially as a PWO) for the under center PA scheme that Kill tried to roll with, he was a terrible fit for Claeys wanting to do a shotgun read option run game which placed great emphasis on QB's being able to run well, he is a pretty good fit for a RPO offense. Simple as that yet we keep having discussions on him or how Streveler would do or the Seth Green thread a week or two back. People just simply don't get it. Different players based on their natural talents fit different schemes
 

RatherBeGolfing said:
I'm not sure why the concept of players fitting different schemes better or worse is such a difficult concept for people to understand.

Rhoda was an ok fit (especially as a PWO) for the under center PA scheme that Kill tried to roll with, he was a terrible fit for Claeys wanting to do a shotgun read option run game which placed great emphasis on QB's being able to run well, he is a pretty good fit for a RPO offense. Simple as that yet we keep having discussions on him or how Streveler would do or the Seth Green thread a week or two back. People just simply don't get it. Different players based on their natural talents fit different schemes
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This is so very true, yet some don't want to admit it.
Rhoda didn't fit the scheme that Claeys/Johnson were planning to run.
We could have a thread McLaurin and the current regime and why they didn't play him. It's the same thing, he didn't fit what PJ and Ciarrocca wanted to do offensively.
 

oleboy41 said:
No knock on Rhoda but while the numbers were excellent he himself didn't do anything all that impressive throwing the ball. He had a nice back shoulder throw to Johnson but otherwise he hit a couple wide open WRs and didn't make any mistakes. Thats good stuff but so far nothing to say he should've been playing last year
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This


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GFBfan said:
This is so very true, yet some don't want to admit it.
Rhoda didn't fit the scheme that Claeys/Johnson were planning to run.
We could have a thread McLaurin and the current regime and why they didn't play him. It's the same thing, he didn't fit what PJ and Ciarrocca wanted to do offensively.
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Winner winner, chicken dinner. He's fitting rather well in Fleck's scheme.
 

I really hope that Rhoda stays this efficient. I am obviously pulling for Rhoda (Cretin and U of MN grad). I also will gladly admit the previous regime could not coach QBs. I also think Streveler would be our starting QB if he stayed. So, I'm really not biased by regime or player in this argument. I only start my discussion like this because everything turns into an ad hominem attack.

(1) I don't think our current staff is super confident in Rhoda. We simply haven't thrown the ball much. He was asked to throw it 20 times against Buffalo and he was not that impressive (including one atrocious decision).
(2) I don't think last week's game was a great litmus test. We ran the ball 58 times and threw it 8. He was efficient and I loved the way he played, but I wouldn't be singing Leidner's praises after such a performance either.
 

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