Which co-starting QB do you think played better vs Buffalo?

Which co-starting QB do you think played better vs Buffalo?

  • Rhoda

    Votes: 49 36.8%

  • Croft

    Votes: 84 63.2%
  • Total voters
    133
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Livingat45north said:
Reading the DE takes experience, something Croft hasn't had a chance to gain. The plays I'm commenting on were options, Croft was looking right at the DE when the handoff was being made. I guess I'm used to Mitch being the tough-guy that'd punish defenders for trying to tackle him, whereas Croft seemed afraid to take a hit. I don't agree with folks that think he's a great runner, at least in this game he was too timid.
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It's easier to see from the stands or TV whether it should be handed off or pulled. It also depends on what the coaches are telling them to read and what to do when in doubt. I thought both of them had chances to pull the ball last night. Croft did a couple times and it worked and he did have a couple other chances, but when in doubt I would rather have the ball in Brooks or Smiths hands than Croft. After Croft did gain yards, the DE's were a little more honest in honoring him which gave Brooks and Smith some better running lanes. Rhoda never did pull and as the game went on the DE's were not honoring him at all which really closed up the running lanes.
 

The threat for Rhoda isn't whether he's going to pull it out and run, but whether he's going to pull it for a pass.
 

joshvanklomp said:
The threat for Rhoda isn't whether he's going to pull it out and run, but whether he's going to pull it for a pass.
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And that worked for 2.6 yds/carry.


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Why do we have two quarterbacks? We are arguing pretty evenly split on the decision which quarterback gives us a better chance. What's the best option for the team this season? I think we see what the coaches have been discussing and mulling throughout the month of August. Are we clear? No, It's Not Crystal Clear which guy gives us the better chance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmKOVdAGtzM
 

joshvanklomp said:
How many yards per pass?
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About 8.4 - but not sure what that has to do with your argument that the mighty threat of CR15 passing keeps defenses honest on the Read Option?


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Spoofin said:
About 8.4 - but not sure what that has to do with your argument that the mighty threat of CR15 passing keeps defenses honest on the Read Option?
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It's a run-pass option system, not a read option.
 

joshvanklomp said:
It's a run-pass option system, not a read option.
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Well then, you might need to dig up stats on what pass plays CR15 'optioned' to pass and which were from a RPO play because that is rather important. I don't recall a lot of RPO pass plays from CR yielding dividends, but haven't rewatched the game yet either. The run game definitely stalled with CR under center. He definitely had more passing yards but didn't look like Joe Montana by any stretch. As shown in another post, each QB averaged the exact same yds/drive led. As I have been saying from the start - as PJ said - there really wasn't much of a separation between them. But CR's passing threat keeping defenses honest? Please.


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Rhoda. Forget Ricky Foggie. He won't be playing here this year.
 

It's very difficult to train a quarterback to read that option in a short time. There is no way you have enough reps in practice for two quarterbacks thus the vanilla offense last night. If they go into 2nd game with 2 don't expect differently. He has to make a call on the quarterback and go with. It's not like one is so much better than the other but at least you can develop your offense.
 

My take (cribbed form the postgame thread):

• Worried about O-line and weka o-line makes things hard to figure out.
• Thought Rhoda looked very good- until he didn’t. He throws well and looked in command and then boom- interception or badly missing a receiver. (Side note- what the heck was Claeys thinking in not giving him a scholarship? Not because he is good but because their QB depth is terrible.)
(Second side note: Would Chris Streveler start for this team? I think he might. Somehow the Claeys regime seriously mishandled QB succession.)
• Croft- Personaly not impressed. Is he not a part of the strength program? He looks way too frail for someone entering three years in the program. I also expected a more dynamic runner. His runs last night were timely but consisted entirely of a sprint to the sideline. Big Ten defences stop him before the first downs.

I would go with Rhoda although some of the recent stats posted show Croft to be more effective than I thought.
 

Spoofin said:
As I have been saying from the start - as PJ said - there really wasn't much of a separation between them. But CR's passing threat keeping defenses honest? Please.
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A lot more than Croft's passing threat did.

Reading the board the last few years, the problem with the offense was the passing game, no? Too reliant on the run, no?

Look at Croft's TD drive. Two passes, and eight rushes. Yup, sounds like he sure solved the passing game issues and made it a much more complete offense. Big Ten defenses will key in on that unless it changes. Personally I'd rather have my QB keep the defense honest by passing the ball rather than running it. There should be a threat to pass. There wasn't with Croft, as the team ran 27 times with just 12 passes. With Rhoda under center, it was practically an even split with 21 rushes and 20 passes).

The offensive production was very similar under both quarterbacks (Rhoda 42-230, Croft 40-181). I guess it depends how you want the team to look. If you want the team to be run HEAVY with a limited passing attack like the last four years, Croft is the guy. If you're looking for more balance between run and pass, Rhoda is your guy.


(Note: I know I gained a play for each QB between the last two paragraphs...not sure what happened. Still you get the picture.)
 




joshvanklomp said:
A lot more than Croft's passing threat did.

Reading the board the last few years, the problem with the offense was the passing game, no? Too reliant on the run, no?

Look at Croft's TD drive. Two passes, and eight rushes. Yup, sounds like he sure solved the passing game issues and made it a much more complete offense. Big Ten defenses will key in on that unless it changes. Personally I'd rather have my QB keep the defense honest by passing the ball rather than running it. There should be a threat to pass. There wasn't with Croft, as the team ran 27 times with just 12 passes. With Rhoda under center, it was practically an even split with 21 rushes and 20 passes).

The offensive production was very similar under both quarterbacks (Rhoda 42-230, Croft 40-181). I guess it depends how you want the team to look. If you want the team to be run HEAVY with a limited passing attack like the last four years, Croft is the guy. If you're looking for more balance between run and pass, Rhoda is your guy.


(Note: I know I gained a play for each QB between the last two paragraphs...not sure what happened. Still you get the picture.)
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Rhoda completed 60% of his throws, Croft completed 58% of his, yet Rhoda is a bigger threat in the passing game? Somehow I don't follow that logic.
The three penalty backwards drive in the second half that Croft had really limited his chances to make a few more throws and even out the R/P ratio, as they were backed up in their own end. Not only that, but he turned pass plays into running plays on two occasions because of pressure.
Now you're complaining about a TD drive because we didn't throw the ball enough during it? And the other drive was finished off with a pass so that is better? Glad your not a coach. If you're running it well on a drive, why would you throw it? Think back to the Iowa game last year. I want to see TD's and don't care if it is by a pass or rush. Balance is good, but it doesn't win you games.
BIG defenses will key in on whatever we do best and we will have to keep changing things to be successful. To me, Rhoda gives you two threats, a RB run or him making a throw. Croft, gives you three, a RB run, a QB run or him making a throw. Last time I checked, 3 is better than two.
 

GFBfan said:
Rhoda completed 60% of his throws, Croft completed 58% of his, yet Rhoda is a bigger threat in the passing game? Somehow I don't follow that logic.
The three penalty backwards drive in the second half that Croft had really limited his chances to make a few more throws and even out the R/P ratio, as they were backed up in their own end. Not only that, but he turned pass plays into running plays on two occasions because of pressure.
Now you're complaining about a TD drive because we didn't throw the ball enough during it? And the other drive was finished off with a pass so that is better? Glad your not a coach. If you're running it well on a drive, why would you throw it? Think back to the Iowa game last year. I want to see TD's and don't care if it is by a pass or rush. Balance is good, but it doesn't win you games.
BIG defenses will key in on whatever we do best and we will have to keep changing things to be successful. To me, Rhoda gives you two threats, a RB run or him making a throw. Croft, gives you three, a RB run, a QB run or him making a throw. Last time I checked, 3 is better than two.
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I believe CR15 was 57% (12/21) and DC11 was 64% (7/11), no (going off memory)?


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Spoofin said:
I believe CR15 was 57% (12/21) and DC11 was 64% (7/11), no (going off memory)?


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On Gophersports it has Rhoda at 12/20 and Croft 7/12, but CBS has it how you remembered.
Either way I stand by everything I stated above.
 

Livingat45north said:
Reading the DE takes experience, something Croft hasn't had a chance to gain. The plays I'm commenting on were options, Croft was looking right at the DE when the handoff was being made. I guess I'm used to Mitch being the tough-guy that'd punish defenders for trying to tackle him, whereas Croft seemed afraid to take a hit. I don't agree with folks that think he's a great runner, at least in this game he was too timid.
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As has been pointed out by many others KC and PJ do not have their QB run often. Also just because he's looking at the DE doesn't mean it's called as an option- we often had our QB do that on planned runs so that we could see how much discipline the DE showed so we knew whether our QB was likely able to get around the end for a first down when we needed it most.


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Maverick said:
Points are all that counts. Croft 10, Rhoda 7. Croft wins.

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Hope you're being smart. If Rhoda could of only made that 37 yard field goal. He purposely missed and made the 43 yarder for Croft because he thinks Croft is the better QB too. Now I get it. Thanks
 

My vote is to continue playing both of them, at least through the non conference, or until there is a clearly more effective QB (which you could argue all day but there isn't at this point). I find it funny how for the last 4 years there was so much whining about our passing game and now so many are arguing for a running QB and running game. Can't make it up.
 

Some Day...Maybe said:
My vote is to continue playing both of them, at least through the non conference, or until there is a clearly more effective QB (which you could argue all day but there isn't at this point). I find it funny how for the last 4 years there was so much whining about our passing game and now so many are arguing for a running QB and running game. Can't make it up.
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Agree with this. Need more of a sample size to make a definitive decision.

Don't think anyone here is arguing for a running QB. I believe those people are pointing out that we moved the ball with both in similar fashion and that neither QB showed any better than the other. Wouldn't say Rhoda is a better passer right now.
 

joshvanklomp said:
The threat for Rhoda isn't whether he's going to pull it out and run, but whether he's going to pull it for a pass.
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You don't leave the DE unblocked in spread option when you PAP unless u want your immobile QB destroyed


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What's clear is that they are comparable and those who thought Croft was significantly better and accused PJ of coach speak for claiming such should take a break from posting...
 


GFBfan said:
Rhoda completed 60% of his throws, Croft completed 58% of his, yet Rhoda is a bigger threat in the passing game? Somehow I don't follow that logic.
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Rhoda did a better job of attacking downfield.
 

I just watched an entire morning of CFB pregame and not one mention of the passing performance CR15 displayed Thursday night. The national media sucks.


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They both played well, it seemed like Rhoda made more pre-snap adjustments. I was pretty unimpressed with the WR play other than Tyler Johnson. Howard, Carter, and Woz all had bad drops. Douglas showed some potential too.
 

The bottom line is their secondary wasn't great so it's hard to draw any conclusions. When we start playing better defenses it will be gut check time for these QBs. They will need to protect the ball, which Rhoda didn't in this game, and they will need to start utilizing the TE/H-back mismatch we have in Lingen.

Fleck has already said he's going to continue the two QB rotation. Way too early to say who's going to develop. Key word is develop. If you think either of these guys (or the offense) is a finished product you're nuts. Still need to see who brings more to the table. I've already made my preference known but I respect other opinions.
 

I think Croft should get the start next week. Let's lean a bit on the run and screen game and combine it with an effective play action.
 

60's Guy said:
Lol Naturally, I saw things differently...I'm not saying by an avalanche margin for sure but I do believe Rhoda is the better quarterback. Rhoda's pocket presence I thought was excellent. He stepped up in the pocket to avoid the rush, he stood in the pocket knowing he was going to get drilled and delivered the pass on target.
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I agree with this wholeheartedly. I thought Rhoda showed more pocket presence and pocket awareness than any Gopher QB in a while. Leidner seemed to have that awareness or presence. Obviously the INT was horrendous but I liked what I saw in him for the most part, particularly moving around in the pocket, keeping the play alive, making decent throws.

I'm too lazy to check but I'm curious to see how each QB did in converting 3rd downs. Watching it live, I thought Rhoda was more effective but I can't say for sure.

I went into the game slightly pulling for Croft for the reasons of his athleticism and his youth but at this point trust Rhoda a lot more.
 

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