Zulgad: Gophers’ failure to identify starting QB a reminder of where Kill went wrong

BleedGopher

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per Judd:

So who is to blame for the fact that Fleck doesn’t feel there is a qualified quarterback on campus? That would be new Rutgers offensive coordinator and former Gophers head coach Jerry Kill.

Before Fleck arrived from Western Michigan, sporting an impressive resume that included knowing his way around offensive schemes, Kill was named the Gophers coach and arrived in 2011 from Northern Illinois with a similar reputation.

Kill’s final quarterback at Northern Illinois was Chandler Harnish, who showed significant improvement from his sophomore to his junior seasons. Harnish’s passing yards went from 1,670 to 2,530; his passing touchdowns jumped from 11 to 21; and his passer rating went from 137.9 to 157.8.

But Kill did not come close to finding a Hanish at Minnesota.

He recruited Philip Nelson and Mitch Leidner. Nelson started most of the 2013 season after taking the job midway through his freshman year but decided to transfer in January 2014. Nelson said he was, “looking to play in a system that centers more around the pass game which utilizes my skill sets.”

That left Leidner as the starter and, as much as Gophers fans tried to convince themselves that the Lakeville native would eventually turn into Harnish, that never came close to happening. Leidner could run the ball like Kill wanted but his shortcomings in the passing game couldn’t be overlooked.

Watching Leidner ended up being more maddening than anything, even as the Gophers won nine games last season. Those victories came under Tracy Claeys, who had been Kill’s defensive coordinator before taking over as coach in October 2015 when Kill stepped down for health reasons.

Claeys, who was fired after a tumultuous 2016 season, didn’t leave Fleck many quarterback options and Fleck even went so far as to convince Rhoda to return for a fifth season. Rhoda, who started a game at Maryland last season in place of the injured Leidner, and Croft both have 17 career pass attempts.

Fleck is no stranger to playing two quarterbacks, having done it in two of his four seasons at Western Michigan. However, he admitted at Big Ten media day in Chicago that he’s not a big proponent of splitting time between his quarterbacks but he would be willing to go in that direction if no one won the job.

That’s exactly what happened.

So what’s the answer? Since it appears backups Seth Green and Tanner Morgan aren’t even in the mix at this point, Fleck likely will hope that Rhoda or Croft grab hold of the job during the nonconference season.

But there’s a very good chance that will be the short-term fix.

It’s no secret that Fleck really likes three-star quarterback Brennan Armstrong, who has made a verbal commitment to the Gophers and is the top-ranked QB prospect in the 2018 class from Ohio.

http://www.1500espn.com/gophers-2/2...dentify-starting-qb-reminder-kill-went-wrong/

Go Gophers!!
 

I agree that the Kill era QBs were a disaster. No getting around that. You could argue that alone was enough for them to be dismissed.

But, Freshman QBs play at various schools around the country. Transfers are available. I'm not giving Fleck a 3 year leash on this like many will. I don't even like it as an excuse for this year. Let's not forget Croft and Greene were highly touted. Peder State wanted Croft, and Greene was committed to Oregon at one time. Both were high 3-star talent. He's supposed to bring an expertise in regards to QBs/WRs. Show me, instead of just telling me every 5 minutes, that you're great.
 

Not sure it's really fair to say that the Kill era couldn't develop QBs. We have no idea how good Croft or Green could be as they both have inexperience. It's impossible to have a proven Qb the year after a 3 year starter graduates.

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Not sure it's really fair to say that the Kill era couldn't develop QBs. We have no idea how good Croft or Green could be as they both have inexperience. It's impossible to have a proven Qb the year after a 3 year starter graduates.

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Um, seriously? It's totally fair.
 

Brewster left a disaster at the QB position for Jerry Kill. I get it.

But, to be fair his emphasis on the running game probably made it even less attractive for better QBs.

He had a big mess to fix, and he should be thanked for building up the defense. We did go to consecutive bowl games. It is a huge tactical problem for the GOphers not having a higher caliber QB.

But, like the data I plotted indicated, the Gophers on average will be forever a fifth place team in the B1G West without a better QB.
 


Brewster left a disaster at the QB position for Jerry Kill. I get it.

But, to be fair his emphasis on the running game probably made it even less attractive for better QBs.

He had a big mess to fix, and he should be thanked for building up the defense. We did go to consecutive bowl games. It is a huge tactical problem for the GOphers not having a higher caliber QB.

But, like the data I plotted indicated, the Gophers on average will be forever a fifth place team in the B1G West without a better QB.

Brewster left two QBs that were better than anything Kill brought in.
 

Not sure it's really fair to say that the Kill era couldn't develop QBs. We have no idea how good Croft or Green could be as they both have inexperience. It's impossible to have a proven Qb the year after a 3 year starter graduates.

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Kill seemed to recruit run-first QBs like McKinzy and Streveler. Always made me question the QB's role in the overall scheme, but Kill and Company have forgotten more about football in the last ten minutes than I could learn in ten lifetimes, so I'll let that one go.

It would have been interesting to see if Jay Johnson could have done something with the QB position had the old regime stayed in place. Limegrover's offense pretty much featured a Pop Warner-level passing game in terms of sophistication and I think that contributed to the erratic QB play.

A two-QB system isn't ideal, but it isn't a death knell for the team either.
 

They never did lock in on what exactly they wanted to do on offense here. They seemed to try and go back and I forth between being a play action based, under center type passing game vs. a shotgun more read option attack. The inability to pick a philosophy and stick with it trickled into QB recruiting. Sure you can mix and match between both, I'm not saying you have to be 100% one or the other but that constant changing of what they wanted to do showed with QB recruiting and thus the rest of the offense.

Streveler was signed and then they decided to go to that play action attack. He simply was not that type of quarterback. Same with Nelson. Phil is best suited running in a shotgun RPO type offense. We're seeing it a bit now with guys recruited by the former staff that are still on the roster. Croft looks like he'll dramatically benefit from this change because it better suits his skillset. I remember when he signed here and it was blatantly obvious then that he wasn't built to run an under center passing attack.

It always seemed to me that they came here and had great success at previous stops with their read option offense in the past but got it in their head that if they were going to play with Iowa and Wisconsin, they would have to play bruiser ball and go with their philosophies and it showed in recruiting. They wanted to be a bully under center running game but never 1. really could execute the true nuances of it and 2. adapt their recruiting strategy. They wanted to recruit the type of player they always had at previous stops and mold them into fit that bully ball strategy and it never worked and nowhere was it more apparent than at QB
 

I agree that the Kill era QBs were a disaster. No getting around that. You could argue that alone was enough for them to be dismissed.

But, Freshman QBs play at various schools around the country. Transfers are available. I'm not giving Fleck a 3 year leash on this like many will. I don't even like it as an excuse for this year. Let's not forget Croft and Greene were highly touted. Peder State wanted Croft, and Greene was committed to Oregon at one time. Both were high 3-star talent. He's supposed to bring an expertise in regards to QBs/WRs. Show me, instead of just telling me every 5 minutes, that you're great.

Croft may have been somewhat highly touted, but wasn't Green told he would be a TE at Oregon? Regardless of stars, the players have to develop and get better. This year is the first year for everyone in the system. I think that if either Croft or Rhoda seizes the starting job and the team is winning, the season will play out with those two at QB. If the team struggles, I could see Green or Morgan playing to get them some reps for next year. The Oregon State game will tell us a lot about where this team is early.
 



"failure to identify starting QB"

I just love positive thinking.
 

Maybe it's who the 2 Quarterbacks are?
 

Croft may have been somewhat highly touted, but wasn't Green told he would be a TE at Oregon? Regardless of stars, the players have to develop and get better. This year is the first year for everyone in the system. I think that if either Croft or Rhoda seizes the starting job and the team is winning, the season will play out with those two at QB. If the team struggles, I could see Green or Morgan playing to get them some reps for next year. The Oregon State game will tell us a lot about where this team is early.

There is no doubt about this, that's for sure. The OSU game will be a huge litmus test across the board, for all units
 

I don’t know about developing QBs, but they sure couldn’t handle a QB situation. Did Mitch Leidner keep his starting job for 4 years because there wasn’t one QB who could beat him out, or was it because the Kill/Claeys staff stubbornly refused to give anyone a chance because they favored Mitch’s experience regardless of what the other QBs could bring? And, when they played Croft for one half against NW a couple of years ago and never let him play again was plain stupid (luckily for Croft he was able to RS last year). I can’t really judge Rhoda after his Maryland game because I’m sure he was told to just go out and be Mitch Leidner. However you look at it, those coaches botched it. Hopefully one of these two will emerge. I’m cutting Fleck some flack and agree mostly with Zulgad.
 



I agree that the Kill era QBs were a disaster. No getting around that. You could argue that alone was enough for them to be dismissed.

But, Freshman QBs play at various schools around the country. Transfers are available. I'm not giving Fleck a 3 year leash on this like many will. I don't even like it as an excuse for this year. Let's not forget Croft and Greene were highly touted. Peder State wanted Croft, and Greene was committed to Oregon at one time. Both were high 3-star talent. He's supposed to bring an expertise in regards to QBs/WRs. Show me, instead of just telling me every 5 minutes, that you're great.

Croft wasn't highly touted. He had no other P5 offers. Penn St may have asked him to come to campus for a visit in January as a back-up plan. That doesn't make him Trace McSorley.

Green was absolutely highly touted early in his high school career, but he fell off significantly and it's unknown whether he would have had another P5 offer to play QB besides us in his senior year. The opinion on the pay boards is that he'll be moved to TE after Armstrong arrives on campus.
 

Croft wasn't highly touted. He had no other P5 offers. Penn St may have asked him to come to campus for a visit in January as a back-up plan. That doesn't make him Trace McSorley.

Green was absolutely highly touted early in his high school career, but he fell off significantly and it's unknown whether he would have had another P5 offer to play QB besides us in his senior year. The opinion on the pay boards is that he'll be moved to TE after Armstrong arrives on campus.

I agree with this set of facts.
Someone mentioned a lack of direction for the offense, I think it is true, but by default.
Limegrover was trying to move more towards a balanced offense with more passing, wider line splits etc. That is why he took OTs who looked like power forwards coming out of US. But whenever the offense struggled JK reverted to a power running game. I think mentally he knew they needed to change, but he could never last through the transition.
They simply were not good at identifying HS QBs. Streveler and McKinzy should never have been D1 let alone p5 recruits.
I think Z was actually a good pass game coordinator, but a terrible QB coach and talent evaluator.
 

Wait, wait, wait...Jerry Kill didn't reach out to the Twin Cities media to get an article in?

Give it a day and there will be a feature length article that has Kill going in-depth over and over about how great he is, was, and forever shall be and how the U doesn't know how great he is.
 

Wait, wait, wait...Jerry Kill didn't reach out to the Twin Cities media to get an article in?

Give it a day and there will be a feature length article that has Kill going in-depth over and over about how great he is, was, and forever shall be and how the U doesn't know how great he is.

With some supporting quotes from Jim Carter...only a matter of time.
 

I agree with this set of facts.
Someone mentioned a lack of direction for the offense, I think it is true, but by default.
Limegrover was trying to move more towards a balanced offense with more passing, wider line splits etc. That is why he took OTs who looked like power forwards coming out of US. But whenever the offense struggled JK reverted to a power running game. I think mentally he knew they needed to change, but he could never last through the transition.
They simply were not good at identifying HS QBs. Streveler and McKinzy should never have been D1 let alone p5 recruits.
I think Z was actually a good pass game coordinator, but a terrible QB coach and talent evaluator.

Streveler was pretty good at USD.
 


We are maybe the only team in the Country with not 1, but 2 Division I STARTING QBs. What's not to like?


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Failure to find/develop the QB and WR positions were two massive short comings in the Kill/Claeys era. Time will tell if Fleck and his staff can flip that trend.
 

Wait, wait, wait...Jerry Kill didn't reach out to the Twin Cities media to get an article in?

Give it a day and there will be a feature length article that has Kill going in-depth over and over about how great he is, was, and forever shall be and how the U doesn't know how great he is.

Country Jer never misses an oppprtunity to let you know how great he is.
 

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!! Keep it up.
 

Streveler was pretty good at USD.

Batter stats than Tanner Lee but that's a low bar. In ten games Strev had about 2000 yards passing, 830 rushing 22 passing TDs to 9 interceptions with a 7.1 average. 9 rushing TDs. By the reports of some here he couldn't hit sand if he fell off a camel. Not a totally accurate assessment.

I always liked that kid. Dynamic player.
 


Everyone on our roster would be good at USD... there might be 20-30 that would make the USD hall of fame.
 

Batter stats than Tanner Lee but that's a low bar. In ten games Strev had about 2000 yards passing, 830 rushing 22 passing TDs to 9 interceptions with a 7.1 average. 9 rushing TDs. By the reports of some here he couldn't hit sand if he fell off a camel. Not a totally accurate assessment.

I always liked that kid. Dynamic player.

How was Streveler dynamic? He basically played 1 game vs San Jose St. and completed 1 pass. Nothing against him personally, but he's the poster child for the failed QB recruiting under Kill.
 


How was Streveler dynamic? He basically played 1 game vs San Jose St. and completed 1 pass. Nothing against him personally, but he's the poster child for the failed QB recruiting under Kill.

I was at that game. Rain delay in the second half. He was the winning QB and also a red-shirt freshman at the time.
 

Batter stats than Tanner Lee but that's a low bar. In ten games Strev had about 2000 yards passing, 830 rushing 22 passing TDs to 9 interceptions with a 7.1 average. 9 rushing TDs. By the reports of some here he couldn't hit sand if he fell off a camel. Not a totally accurate assessment.

I always liked that kid. Dynamic player.

Lol, are we going to pretend we miss Chris Streveler now? And Tulane is still a FBS school and not a FCS school. Apples and oranges.

Streveler averaged 7.1 yards per pass attempt, the exact same as Leidner, yet at a lower level. I watched several USD games last year and Streveler can get away with a lot more at that level. His arm is not strong, but he's a great athlete.

Jordan Lynch had ~3000 passing yards each of his last 2 seasons at NIU and the NFL would only give him a shot a RB. That was the type of QB Kill kept recruiting, good athletes, not good passers. Both Rhoda and Croft have much better arms than Streveler but still might not be good QBs.
 




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