Wisconsin senior inside linebacker Jack Cichy will miss the 2017 season with Torn ACL

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Pompous Elitist said:
There was an insinuation that Wisconsin may be a great team and we were simply pointing out they have not risen to an elite level. We even allowed they are a good program...with fans that can't be allowed to get too big for their britches. We are all familiar with the Gopher's struggles but that is a totally separate topic.
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If Wisconsin is a good program, what are we?
 


Some Day...Maybe said:
Saw that, 2 LBs out for the season.


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WI is deep at LB. From the outside, it looks bad for WI, with watt and biegel in the NFL and 2 starters out for the season. However, they will still kill it on defense somehow.

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John Galt said:
If Wisconsin is a good program, what are we?
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I understand what you're saying, but Minnesota's status is a different argument. Wisconsin is demonstrably not elite. They are good, or above average, and the highest compliment I can give them is they pretty consistently outplay their recruit rankings which is the mark of a good program.

Last I saw they choked, big time, vs Penn State. That was fun.

Their most recent Bowl win Was vs a bad (for them) USC squad in a bowl nobody at USC cares about.

Prior to that they defeated an 8-4 Auburn squad from the laughably overrated 2014 SEC. That bowl season will not soon be forgotten (will it?)

Prior to that I don't think football existed. Ive heard from reliable experts to the east that recent history is all that matters.

I think they lost to a mid-major at the Rose Bowl, but can't be sure.

Since you asked, MN is solid on its way to becoming elite.
 


Pompous Elitist said:
I understand what you're saying, but Minnesota's status is a different argument. Wisconsin is demonstrably not elite. They are good, or above average, and the highest compliment I can give them is they pretty consistently outplay their recruit rankings which is the mark of a good program.

Last I saw they choked, big time, vs Penn State. That was fun.

Their most recent Bowl win Was vs a bad (for them) USC squad in a bowl nobody at USC cares about.

Prior to that they defeated an 8-4 Auburn squad from the laughably overrated 2014 SEC. That bowl season will not soon be forgotten (will it?)

Prior to that I don't think football existed. Ive heard from reliable experts to the east that recent history is all that matters.

I think they lost to a mid-major at the Rose Bowl, but can't be sure.

Since you asked, MN is solid on its way to becoming elite.
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but wasn't their most recent bowl win against Western Michigan?
 



Their most recent Bowl win over a power 5. Thank you for helping make the argument - the Cotton Bowl was a forgettable game (outside of PJ Fleck now being our coach) over a team that would have been middling to perhaps slightly above average in the Big Ten.

My point was I see a bunch of Ls in their recent Rose Bowls against good out of conference opponents. I don't see evidence they've challenged for the national title recently. They don't typically beat the elite teams. What is their record vs Ohio State. Let's keep perspective.
 



Pompous Elitist said:
I understand what you're saying, but Minnesota's status is a different argument. Wisconsin is demonstrably not elite. They are good, or above average, and the highest compliment I can give them is they pretty consistently outplay their recruit rankings which is the mark of a good program.

Last I saw they choked, big time, vs Penn State. That was fun.

Their most recent Bowl win Was vs a bad (for them) USC squad in a bowl nobody at USC cares about.

Prior to that they defeated an 8-4 Auburn squad from the laughably overrated 2014 SEC. That bowl season will not soon be forgotten (will it?)

Prior to that I don't think football existed. Ive heard from reliable experts to the east that recent history is all that matters.

I think they lost to a mid-major at the Rose Bowl, but can't be sure.

Since you asked, MN is solid on its way to becoming elite.
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Listen, I can't stand the Badgers, so please don't kill the messenger. My point is, as hard as it is to stomach (and type), they have been much more than a "good" team. One losing season in the past 20. Average 9+ win/season over that stretch, and had 10 seasons with 10 or more wins. Ranked top 25 14 times in that stretch. Ranked top 10 six times in that stretch. I'm thinking not many other P5 non helmet schools have done that in the last 20 years.
 

If the Gophers would win bowl games over Auburn, USC, and a Cotton Bowl in consecutive years along with a win over LSU, I think us fans would call us a lot more than a "good" program.

I suppose it depends who's in what category for where Wisconsin fits. They are not in the Alabama/Ohio State/Florida State tier....but they're probably in the one just below that.

Back to topic at hand; seems like they're losing LBs. Seems like a position of strength for them, but it still will hurt.
 

FireDaveLee said:
If the Gophers would win bowl games over Auburn, USC, and a Cotton Bowl in consecutive years along with a win over LSU, I think us fans would call us a lot more than a "good" program.

I suppose it depends who's in what category for where Wisconsin fits. They are not in the Alabama/Ohio State/Florida State tier....but they're probably in the one just below that.

Back to topic at hand; seems like they're losing LBs. Seems like a position of strength for them, but it still will hurt.
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Wearing collared shirts = elite

Winning bowl games over USC = good, not elite.
Winning Cotton Bowl = good, not elite.
Making several Rose Bowls = good, not elite.

You get it now.
 

Is the argument they are elite, or good? I'm just keeping it real.

So much self hate. The tampers that downplay a 9 win season, or beating Michigan, Iowa, Nebraska, WA State (because they were down!) think wins over a mediocre 8-4 USC team (I follow this team closely) and an overrated 8-4 Auburn team is impressive.

I've already given props to Wisconsin for their consistency and playing above their weight. We all hope to reach and exceed that on the coming years.
 



Pompous Elitist said:
Is the argument they are elite, or good? I'm just keeping it real.

So much self hate. The tampers that downplay a 9 win season, or beating Michigan, Iowa, Nebraska, WA State (because they were down!) think wins over a mediocre 8-4 USC team (I follow this team closely) and an overrated 8-4 Auburn team is impressive.

I've already given props to Wisconsin for their consistency and playing above their weight. We all hope to reach and exceed that on the coming years.
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All good (or great?) points. I think it goes Meh, Good, Great, Tremendous, ELITE. :)
 

PMWinSTP said:
All good (or great?) points. I think it goes Meh, Good, Great, Tremendous, ELITE. :)
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Shall we define a timeline for this argument? Last 20 years? We have been at times good, oftentimes meh, occasionally putrid. Wisconsin OTOH has recently been consistently good with years of greatness but no elite seasons since current recruits were crapping their diapers, i.e. winning Rose Bowls.

I have never suggested the MN football program has been superior in recent years. I feel that is about to change.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Shall we define a timeline for this argument? Last 20 years? We have been at times good, oftentimes meh, occasionally putrid. Wisconsin OTOH has recently been consistently good with years of greatness but no elite seasons since current recruits were crapping their diapers, i.e. winning Rose Bowls.

I have never suggested the MN football program has been superior in recent years. I feel that is about to change.
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I agree, and I did define it as the last 20 years. Said it before, Rose Bowl after 2019 season absolutely a possibility for Gophs. They continue to elevate and progress on what has been built over the last 5-6 years, and there is definitely a chance for Gophs to run the regular season table in 2019.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Shall we define a timeline for this argument? Last 20 years? We have been at times good, oftentimes meh, occasionally putrid. Wisconsin OTOH has recently been consistently good with years of greatness but no elite seasons since current recruits were crapping their diapers, i.e. winning Rose Bowls.

I have never suggested the MN football program has been superior in recent years. I feel that is about to change.
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So winning B1G championships is not elite? That's a new one
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
So winning B1G championships is not elite? That's a new one
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The 2010 team lost to mid major TCU. Not elite.
The 2011 team lost to Oregon. Not elite.
The 2012 team went 4-4 in conference and 8-6 overall. Lost to Stanford. Not elite.

The Big Ten went through a period of "dark times" where OSU, Michigan, and PSU were all mediocre. The SEC gained acclaim. The Big Ten became the butt of jokes. Michigan State and Wisconsin took advantage, but in recent years the old order has returned. Most recently, Wisconsin lost 59-0 to the spread offense Buckeyes and choked away a game to spread offense PSU.

Illinois, Northwestern (twice), and Purdue have all won conference championships over the last 20 years. Does that mean they were elite?
 

Pompous Elitist said:
The 2010 team lost to mid major TCU. Not elite.
The 2011 team lost to Oregon. Not elite.
The 2012 team went 4-4 in conference and 8-6 overall. Lost to Stanford. Not elite.

The Big Ten went through a period of "dark times" where OSU, Michigan, and PSU were all mediocre. The SEC gained acclaim. The Big Ten became the butt of jokes. Michigan State and Wisconsin took advantage, but in recent years the old order has returned. Most recently, Wisconsin lost 59-0 to the spread offense Buckeyes and choked away a game to spread offense PSU.

Illinois, Northwestern (twice), and Purdue have all won conference championships over the last 20 years. Does that mean they were elite?
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That 'mid major' team finished #2 in the country, and it was their 3rd consecutive top 7 finish. What about when that 8-6 team still hung 70 on Nebraska in the B1G championship game?

Only one team has more B1G titles than Wisconsin over the last 23 years, Ohio St. They are a B1G title threat every year. They've played in 4 of the 6 B1G championship games. I agree if you don't want to consider them elite nationally. Only a handful of teams are. But they are an elite B1G team.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
That 'mid major' team finished #2 in the country, and it was their 3rd consecutive top 7 finish. What about when that 8-6 team still hung 70 on Nebraska in the B1G championship game?

Only one team has more B1G titles than Wisconsin over the last 23 years, Ohio St. They are a B1G title threat every year. They've played in 4 of the 6 B1G championship games. I agree if you don't want to consider them elite nationally. Only a handful of teams are. But they are an elite B1G team.
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I smell Badger lover...
 

Well, you're moving the goalpost. The original post was addressing whether they are a great program. That should mean more than a few seasons of elite outcomes on a national scale.

Should we define an elite program as one that wins the West? Big Ten? Or one that makes noise on a national level? Top 5, Top 10, Top 20?

When Wisconsin starts beating good teams on a national level (not mediocre SEC teams) then they can claim eliteness. The 90s are ancient history.
 


Pompous Elitist said:
Well, you're moving the goalpost. The original post was addressing whether they are a great program. That should mean more than a few seasons of elite outcomes on a national scale.

Should we define an elite program as one that wins the West? Big Ten? Or one that makes noise on a national level? Top 5, Top 10, Top 20?

When Wisconsin starts beating good teams on a national level (not mediocre SEC teams) then they can claim eliteness. The 90s are ancient history.
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Apparently you put more weight on bowl success than winning B1G titles. I couldn't disagree more unless you're playing in the playoff.
 

STPGopher said:
I smell Badger lover...
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First you find yourself watching Badgers on tv or in the bar. Then you start reading Badger magazines. Then you start hanging out at Badger bars, going to Badger games. Mom will always love you, but dad will never understand. Grandpa, can't tell him.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Apparently you put more weight on bowl success than winning B1G titles. I couldn't disagree more unless you're playing in the playoff.
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I'm simply pointing out national relevance. TCU put up an elite performance that year (and others). They won, Wisconsin lost. Stanford, same.

You're arguing teams aren't amped up to play in the Rose Bowl? It's not important?

Here you go Badger Boy: http://www.buckeyville.com
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I'm simply pointing out national relevance. TCU put up an elite performance that year (and others). They won, Wisconsin lost. Stanford, same.

You're arguing teams aren't amped up to play in the Rose Bowl? It's not important?

Here you go Badger Boy: http://www.buckeyville.com
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Lol, I'm a Badger Boy now? Get real. I can have respect for one of our 'rivals' who continues to own us. Hopefully someday we can get to that level and return the favor.

Somehow you are arguing that winning a Big Ten title does not equal national relevance? That's completely laughable.

Answer this: Is the Rose Bowl an elite bowl? Does it take an elite season to make it to the Rose Bowl?
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Lol, I'm a Badger Boy now? Get real. I can have respect for one of our 'rivals' who continues to own us. Hopefully someday we can get to that level and return the favor.

Somehow you are arguing that winning a Big Ten title does not equal national relevance? That's completely laughable.

Answer this: Is the Rose Bowl an elite bowl? Does it take an elite season to make it to the Rose Bowl?
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I will admit that the Badgers are a second tier Big Ten program.

if you want to believe they are one of the best teams in the land I'd disagree with that. They've had some pretty good defenses in recent years, but they were weren't able to slow down elite offenses.

As I said, as a program they have been good and occasionally great but not elite. They can't seem to ever put it all together: offense, defense, special teams.

Try watching some football outside of the Big Ten. You can even have a side team. USC, Washington, TCU, Boise, WMU, Stanford, etc

No true Gopher fan would go on and on about the Badgers like you. Off to Buckyville. Badger-curious?.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I will admit that the Badgers are a second tier Big Ten program.

if you want to believe they are one of the best teams in the land I'd disagree with that. They've had some pretty good defenses in recent years, but they were weren't able to slow down elite offenses.

As I said, as a program they have been good and occasionally great but not elite. They can't seem to ever put it all together: offense, defense, special teams.

Try watching some football outside of the Big Ten. You can even have a side team. USC, Washington, TCU, Boise, WMU, Stanford, etc

No true Gopher fan would go on and on about the Badgers like you. Off to Buckyville. Badger-curious?.
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I only have to defend the Badgers when I read delusional takes like yours. I watch plenty of football outside the B1G. And I didn't say they are one of the 'best teams in the land', but they are one of the best in the B1G every year. There's no argument to that.

Hopefully Fleck can actually keep a game within 10 points against Bucky. We haven't seen that since Brewster.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I only have to defend the Badgers when I read delusional takes like yours. I watch plenty of football outside the B1G. And I didn't say they are one of the 'best teams in the land', but they are one of the best in the B1G every year. There's no argument to that.

Hopefully Fleck can actually keep a game within 10 points against Bucky. We haven't seen that since Brewster.
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:rolleyes: ok.

Why are you here again?
 

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