UCLA QB: "Raise the SAT requirement at Alabama and see what kind of team they have"

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UCLA QB: "Raise the SAT requirement at Alabama and see what kind of team they have"

per The Big Lead:

UCLA quarterback Josh Rosen is the sort of football player who has interests outside of football, is capable of generating and expressing original ideas, and doesn’t seem afraid to do so.

Which is to say Josh Rosen makes NFL scouts extremely nervous, even though they consider him to be extremely talented, as is explained by Bleacher Report.

A particular gripe of Rosen’s is this whole “student-athlete” deal, which irks Rosen not so much because players aren’t getting paid, but because playing football and matriculating through college are goals in conflict with each other.

"Look, football and school don’t go together. They just don’t. Trying to do both is like trying to do two full-time jobs. There are guys who have no business being in school, but they’re here because this is the path to the NFL. There’s no other way. Then there’s the other side that says raise the SAT eligibility requirements. OK, raise the SAT requirement at Alabama and see what kind of team they have. You lose athletes and then the product on the field suffers."

http://thebiglead.com/2017/08/08/uc...-alabama-and-see-what-kind-of-team-they-have/

Go Gophers!!
 


Boo-hoo. Welcome to adulthood and the real world. Things that are worth doing are going to be difficult.
 

Even the Gophers have had guys on the team that didn't deserve to graduate highschool let alone get into a college. Raise the SAT scores and those guys would still find their way onto the Alabama team. Hasn't stopped any programs, won't stop them in the future. Wins and $$$$.
 

The very reason there is a lawsuit working its' way through Federal courts about paying players...
 


He might have a point, but I suspect winning all those championships and coaches have something to do with it too.
 

He must not plan on playing them in a bowl game
 





He's right, but he's also happily playing as part of the system.

Would he have a great voice if he skipped college football and complained about the system? Probably not. He'd just be a blogger or someone who tweets with no audience then.
 






Options:

1. drop any pretense of D1 athletes being students. no academic requirements - they are 'employees' of the university - compensated with the financial equivalent of a full-ride scholarship.

2. maintain academic requirements at a lower level for student-athletes. allow them to take vocational classes at an affiliated community college.

3. continue with the present system.

4. install more stringent academic requirements
 

Boo-hoo. Welcome to adulthood and the real world. Things that are worth doing are going to be difficult.

I don't see how this is a response to his point.

There are a lot of things that are difficult in adulthood that are logical. Our system of "student-athletes" is difficult and completely illogical. He is 100% right, they have nothing to do with each other.

Also, I'd be Josh Rosen works harder than 99% of "adults".
 

I don't see how this is a response to his point.

There are a lot of things that are difficult in adulthood that are logical. Our system of "student-athletes" is difficult and completely illogical. He is 100% right, they have nothing to do with each other.

Also, I'd be Josh Rosen works harder than 99% of "adults".

How is it illogical? I assume that you want high schools to drop athletics and all other extracurriculars as well?

I have to assume you're joking with the second part. Most of us would drop all of our responsibilities and go back to college in a second. Being a student-athlete is difficult, but calling it "work" is an affront to actual work. Digging ditches is work. Pulling double and triple shifts to pay rent and keep food in your kids' stomachs is work. Taking tests, lifting weights, and studying your playbook isn't work.
 

How is it illogical? I assume that you want high schools to drop athletics and all other extracurriculars as well?

I have to assume you're joking with the second part. Most of us would drop all of our responsibilities and go back to college in a second. Being a student-athlete is difficult, but calling it "work" is an affront to actual work. Digging ditches is work. Pulling double and triple shifts to pay rent and keep food in your kids' stomachs is work. Taking tests, lifting weights, and studying your playbook isn't work.

Is that an actual assumption or just an attempted strawman? We should probably just stick with sports, because I can only assume you lumped in "all other extracurriculars" to make it a bit more dramatic.

It's illogical because being a good athlete and being a good student have nothing to do with one another. You can be a great person, a hard worker, and an amazing football player without being good at school. Why should the two activities be so closely intertwined? Baseball, soccer, tennis, swimming, hockey, and even basketball are not so intertwined with being a college student.

If you felt so inclined, you could certainly point to the logical connection between being a great defensive tackle and English 101 or World History. . . I'd love to hear it. Please make it an actual connection too, not just some nonsense about this how it's done and if they don't like it they don't have to play. I know they don't have to play, that doesn't make it logical.


As for point two. . . lol. . . wow. You are being a tad dramatic today. Didn't you say "boo-hoo" to someone else on this thread today and now you reply with this absolute strawman again.

How does the existence of ditch diggers disqualify what a collegiate athlete does as work? Is it just the lack of getting paid? Is it an affront to "work" to say Tom Brady was a hard worker? Or is it just an affront to actual work if we don't pay them?

Do you think you work harder on a day to day basis than a college football player? I get that they may like their work more than most of us like our jobs, but it doesn't make it any less work. Fleck is known as a tireless worker, I'm sure he absolutely loves his job. The fact that Fleck likes his job and gets paid a ton for it doesn't make it an affront to "actual work". Just because ditch diggers exist doesn't mean that other, far more enjoyable professions/activities are not hard work.
 

He's absolutely correct. But let's not act like schools don't bend the lines.

All due respect to Duke athletes, but there is no way every one of their basketball players meet the same admission requirements as your average Math major
 

Options:

1. drop any pretense of D1 athletes being students. no academic requirements - they are 'employees' of the university - compensated with the financial equivalent of a full-ride scholarship.

2. maintain academic requirements at a lower level for student-athletes. allow them to take vocational classes at an affiliated community college.

3. continue with the present system.

4. install more stringent academic requirements

The athletes have 5 years of scholarship coverage and must complete 20% of their degree requirements each year. They must take 6 credit hours hours each term. Assuming one doesn't change their major three times, takes a typical credit load...ideally a typical student graduates in around 4 years.

Spring practice runs around a month. Fall prep and season runs 4 months, possibly (hopefully) 5 months.

There is no question if a student athlete is a "serious student" in a demanding field those 5-6 months will be challenging. However many students work long days at part-time jobs, have kids, or other demands on their time. The fogies here didn't have access to online libraries, textbooks, video lectures, note services...had to trudge to the library in the snow.

I challenge any student athlete to trade places with a single mom (let's say of a small child or two) working their way through school. They wouldn't last a week.

After school, many employees or entrepreneurs work very long days at least in the early years. It's the way of the world.

So, for those 5-6 months you have to devote a lot of your time to studies and play football, lift, etc understand it could be much worse.

I do sympathize with those athletes that cannot take classes they need to graduate in their major of choice. I'm not sure how common that is...isnt everything online for later review now?

/soapbox
 

Do you think you work harder on a day to day basis than a college football player?

Not at all. I realize that I'm very privileged to not have to dig ditches or work 3 jobs to pay my bills. Unlike Josh Rosen, I don't look a gift horse in the mouth and whine about how much I have to "work".

What this all boils down to is that these are a bunch of unsophisticated, naive 18-22-year-olds who don't realize how sweet of a gig they have. People would literally kill to be in Josh Rosen's position. He's a spoiled brat, and then has the audacity to whine about his situation. Thankfully, most of them do realize how good they have it and are grateful for the opportunity. Then there are other morons like Rosen who have zero self-awareness. He has zero awareness of what the real world looks like outside of his privileged bubble and makes himself look stupid to people who weren't blessed with his upbringing and natural athletic ability.
 

Is that an actual assumption or just an attempted strawman? We should probably just stick with sports, because I can only assume you lumped in "all other extracurriculars" to make it a bit more dramatic.

It's illogical because being a good athlete and being a good student have nothing to do with one another. You can be a great person, a hard worker, and an amazing football player without being good at school. Why should the two activities be so closely intertwined? Baseball, soccer, tennis, swimming, hockey, and even basketball are not so intertwined with being a college student.

If you felt so inclined, you could certainly point to the logical connection between being a great defensive tackle and English 101 or World History. . . I'd love to hear it. Please make it an actual connection too, not just some nonsense about this how it's done and if they don't like it they don't have to play. I know they don't have to play, that doesn't make it logical.


As for point two. . . lol. . . wow. You are being a tad dramatic today. Didn't you say "boo-hoo" to someone else on this thread today and now you reply with this absolute strawman again.

How does the existence of ditch diggers disqualify what a collegiate athlete does as work? Is it just the lack of getting paid? Is it an affront to "work" to say Tom Brady was a hard worker? Or is it just an affront to actual work if we don't pay them?

Do you think you work harder on a day to day basis than a college football player? I get that they may like their work more than most of us like our jobs, but it doesn't make it any less work. Fleck is known as a tireless worker, I'm sure he absolutely loves his job. The fact that Fleck likes his job and gets paid a ton for it doesn't make it an affront to "actual work". Just because ditch diggers exist doesn't mean that other, far more enjoyable professions/activities are not hard work.

When you are representing your school then yes, your schoolwork and your athletic endeavors should be somewhat intertwined. Not every player has to be (or has the ability to be) a 3.9 GPA student in neuroscience, but every player should maintain at least a 2.0 GPA. With all the academic help that D1 players get that is really not a tall ask. If the school wants to do extra things to help them (tutoring, priority class registration, scholarships, money for cost of living expenses, etc.) that makes sense, but I don't think it is so crazy to think that someone who competes athletically for an academic institution should have to actually be a student in good standing at that institution.

As a former D3 athlete I am a little annoyed with some of these D1 athletes who talk about wanting a larger piece of the pie. D3 athletes (and many D2 athletes) have to pay all or most of their educational expenses just like every other student. Seems like many D1 athletes don't really understand how great of a benefit it is to have your entire education paid in full. I understand that D1 athletes are elite, and their talents earn them more benefits than a D2/3 athlete. That is fine. But it reminds me of when Latrell Sprewell declined his $21M contract offer, because he "had to feed his family." Just stop already.
 

The athletes have 5 years of scholarship coverage and must complete 20% of their degree requirements each year. They must take 6 credit hours hours each term. Assuming one doesn't change their major three times, takes a typical credit load...ideally a typical student graduates in around 4 years.

Spring practice runs around a month. Fall prep and season runs 4 months, possibly (hopefully) 5 months.

There is no question if a student athlete is a "serious student" in a demanding field those 5-6 months will be challenging. However many students work long days at part-time jobs, have kids, or other demands on their time. The fogies here didn't have access to online libraries, textbooks, video lectures, note services...had to trudge to the library in the snow.

I challenge any student athlete to trade places with a single mom (let's say of a small child or two) working their way through school. They wouldn't last a week.

After school, many employees or entrepreneurs work very long days at least in the early years. It's the way of the world.

So, for those 5-6 months you have to devote a lot of your time to studies and play football, lift, etc understand it could be much worse.

I do sympathize with those athletes that cannot take classes they need to graduate in their major of choice. I'm not sure how common that is...isnt everything online for later review now?

/soapbox

This isn't normal for me, but I agree with you 100%
 

Here is another reason why somebody needs to start up a Major Junior Football League like the CHL.
 

This isn't normal for me, but I agree with you 100%

There are student athletes with kids that live with them. Dan Coleman had his son living with him while he was a student athlete at the U of M. I'm not going to get in a pissing match on whats tougher but Rosen main point was that these schools are just pushing kids along to win. There are actual college seniors on teams that can't read. Also, athletes being forced in and out of majors so they don't affect practice time
 

Not at all. I realize that I'm very privileged to not have to dig ditches or work 3 jobs to pay my bills. Unlike Josh Rosen, I don't look a gift horse in the mouth and whine about how much I have to "work".

What this all boils down to is that these are a bunch of unsophisticated, naive 18-22-year-olds who don't realize how sweet of a gig they have. People would literally kill to be in Josh Rosen's position. He's a spoiled brat, and then has the audacity to whine about his situation. Thankfully, most of them do realize how good they have it and are grateful for the opportunity. Then there are other morons like Rosen who have zero self-awareness. He has zero awareness of what the real world looks like outside of his privileged bubble and makes himself look stupid to people who weren't blessed with his upbringing and natural athletic ability.

You make it seem like he didn't have to work extra hard to maximize his talent how is he a spoiled brat for pointed out something that is true. Schools are letting in players who shouldn't be in college and putting them in cupcake courses to keep them eligible.
 

You make it seem like he didn't have to work extra hard to maximize his talent how is he a spoiled brat for pointed out something that is true. Schools are letting in players who shouldn't be in college and putting them in cupcake courses to keep them eligible.

There are also many kids who would have never had an opportunity to go to college if it weren't for sports. Some have taken advantage of the opportunity and became very successful after college.
 

You make it seem like he didn't have to work extra hard to maximize his talent how is he a spoiled brat for pointed out something that is true. Schools are letting in players who shouldn't be in college and putting them in cupcake courses to keep them eligible.

People keep saying things like this as though it's a given they're true. In fact, athletes have higher GPAs and graduate at higher rates than non-athletes:

http://www.nwmissouri.edu/library/ResearchPapers/2012/Stegall, Ryan.pdf
http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...resident-student-athletes-graduate-more-ofte/
 

People keep saying things like this as though it's a given they're true. In fact, athletes have higher GPAs and graduate at higher rates than non-athletes:

http://www.nwmissouri.edu/library/ResearchPapers/2012/Stegall, Ryan.pdf
http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...resident-student-athletes-graduate-more-ofte/

There certainly are examples of it but I think it is way overblown. Sure there are athletes that don't care at all about academics but some people make it seem like a majority don't care. I don't think that's the case.
 

People keep saying things like this as though it's a given they're true. In fact, athletes have higher GPAs and graduate at higher rates than non-athletes:

http://www.nwmissouri.edu/library/ResearchPapers/2012/Stegall, Ryan.pdf
http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...resident-student-athletes-graduate-more-ofte/

Some interesting points in that second article.

Football and basketball have the lowest graduation rates using the NCAA measurement. Additionally, more than half of the 18 women’s sports have graduation rates higher than 90 percent, while only one men’s sport — fencing — has a graduation rate above 90 percent.

Under the federal measurement, the sports with the highest graduation rates are: men’s gymnastics with 88 percent, women’s gymnastics with 83 percent and women’s lacrosse with 80 percent.

Some experts have taken issue with the NCAA’s claim because the graduation rates vary depending on the team, meaning one group’s success could mask another’s troubles.

"Emmert is not referring to football and men's basketball, which is considerably lower," said Gerald Gurney, a former senior associate athletic director for academics at Oklahoma University. "The problem in college sports is not with the women's soccer team."
 





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