Looks like very experienced two deep

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swingman

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Lot of veterans, older, mature guys.

Olson may be the only oline man in two deep without experience, and he took a lot of good snaps last Fall and all the snaps this Spring. Fifth year Wright, fourth year Greene, fourth year Weyler, fourth/fifth year Calhoun, third year guys Connelly, Dovich, Oseland.

Looks like three running backs with experience. Two of them fourth year guys, two of them three year starters

Top two receivers seem to be Still and Tyler, both experienced and by Fleck's own comments super talented. Fifth year Carter in mix and fourth year Holland in mix.

Top two tight ends Woz and Lingen fourth and fifth year guys.

Upfront on dline also very mature and experienced with seniors Richardson, Merrick, Stelter and rs junior Moore.

Seniors Celestin and Poock and junior Cashman anchoring linebacker with rising sophomore stars Martin, Barber, Waters getting great experience last year. Junior Julian Huff may help.

Fifth year guy at punter, fourth year guy at kicker.

Fifth year McGhee and third year Huff and fifth year Ayinde look to be in two deep at safety.

Cornerback has junior Shenault at one spot, maybe soph Winfield at nickel. Probably soph Durr or rs frosh Kiondre at other corner.

Redshirt soph DeLattiboudere and rs junior Gibson at def end.

Rush end may rely on sophs Coughlin and Devers.

QB battle between third and fifth year guys...both who have had a season taking all the number two reps, both who have seen at least some Big Ten game action. Even or better with QB situations at Iowa, Nebraska, MSU, Illinois, Oregon State, Maryland, maybe Michigan.
 

FWIW - Fleck was on Sports Huddle this morning, and rattled off some stats about how many true FR and Redshirt FR are on the roster. He said the Gophers have 42 or 43 returning lettermen, and said that makes them one of the least experienced teams in country.

So, it all depends on your point of view.

I agree they have good players coming back, but they need to stay healthy. a few injuries at key positions, and there could be a lot of FR or RS FR on the field.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
FWIW - Fleck was on Sports Huddle this morning, and rattled off some stats about how many true FR and Redshirt FR are on the roster. He said the Gophers have 42 or 43 returning lettermen, and said that makes them one of the least experienced teams in country.

So, it all depends on your point of view.

I agree they have good players coming back, but they need to stay healthy. a few injuries at key positions, and there could be a lot of FR or RS FR on the field.
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Everyone plays freshmen and rs freshmen in college football these days (see Kassel at Wisconsin threads, Spielman at NE threads, entire Michigan and MSU two-deep this year.

PJ is Lou Holtz-like in lowering expectations. He is recruiting 24-7 and always sending out messages intended for the high school juniors and seniors he is recruiting who want immediate playing time can read. First week in August, he also wants to motivate veterans on roster to fight for their spots, not assume them. He is a PhD level motivator. Would not surprise me if he gets hired to lecture at Carlson.

The Washburn-McCreavey crowd on Sunday mornings - a90something, deaf bootlicker, Radio Dave and retired millionaire/University booster Mona aren't going to point out any of the fallacies in his statements.

When it comes to game day, my guess is we will roll with less frosh and sophs, more juniors and seniors in the two deep than we did last year.
 

3 of our starting o-lineman will probably be JUCOs who have been here for about a year.
 

John Galt said:
3 of our starting o-lineman will probably be JUCOs who have been here for about a year.
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Not sure about your point JG. They'll still be Jr or Sr and they'll have as much experience with Coach Kirk's offense as anyone.


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GopherWeatherGuy said:
Experience is one thing, talent is another
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Then the Gophers have both then. There is a lot of talent on this team, not at every position (CB and QB seem to be the biggest question marks, you could maybe make a case for O-line) but for the most part this is a team that should be able to hold its own and has proved so over the last few years with many of these same players.
 

swingman said:
Lot of veterans, older, mature guys.

Olson may be the only oline man in two deep without experience, and he took a lot of good snaps last Fall and all the snaps this Spring. Fifth year Wright, fourth year Greene, fourth year Weyler, fourth/fifth year Calhoun, third year guys Connelly, Dovich, Oseland.

Looks like three running backs with experience. Two of them fourth year guys, two of them three year starters

Top two receivers seem to be Still and Tyler, both experienced and by Fleck's own comments super talented. Fifth year Carter in mix and fourth year Holland in mix.

Top two tight ends Woz and Lingen fourth and fifth year guys.

Upfront on dline also very mature and experienced with seniors Richardson, Merrick, Stelter and rs junior Moore.

Seniors Celestin and Poock and junior Cashman anchoring linebacker with rising sophomore stars Martin, Barber, Waters getting great experience last year. Junior Julian Huff may help.

Fifth year guy at punter, fourth year guy at kicker.

Fifth year McGhee and third year Huff and fifth year Ayinde look to be in two deep at safety.

Cornerback has junior Shenault at one spot, maybe soph Winfield at nickel. Probably soph Durr or rs frosh Kiondre at other corner.

Redshirt soph DeLattiboudere and rs junior Gibson at def end.

Rush end may rely on sophs Coughlin and Devers.

QB battle between third and fifth year guys...both who have had a season taking all the number two reps, both who have seen at least some Big Ten game action. Even or better with QB situations at Iowa, Nebraska, MSU, Illinois, Oregon State, Maryland, maybe Michigan.
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Completely agree. Good talent across the board.
 

I'm extremely confident about DT, RB, and LB (maybe TE if Lingen is fully healthy). Every other position is a very big unknown in my mind. Not saying those other positions couldn't turn out to be great, but I have a hard time feeling confident about it.

Edit: Special Teams is also good to go!
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
Experience is one thing, talent is another
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Sometimes I get the impression you don't think many of the kids on our team can tie their own shoes. Keep on tamping.


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Spoofin said:
Sometimes I get the impression you don't think many of the kids on our team can tie their own shoes. Keep on tamping.


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I'm sure they're great at that, but I have watched our offense for the last 6 years. The OL was terrible last year. Who knows what's going to happen at QB. I think WR will be the position the young guys replace the older guys the fastest. I also feel the same way at DB outside of Winfield, who is obviously still only a sophomore.
 

swingman said:
Lot of veterans, older, mature guys.

Olson may be the only oline man in two deep without experience, and he took a lot of good snaps last Fall and all the snaps this Spring. Fifth year Wright, fourth year Greene, fourth year Weyler, fourth/fifth year Calhoun, third year guys Connelly, Dovich, Oseland.

Looks like three running backs with experience. Two of them fourth year guys, two of them three year starters

Top two receivers seem to be Still and Tyler, both experienced and by Fleck's own comments super talented. Fifth year Carter in mix and fourth year Holland in mix.

Top two tight ends Woz and Lingen fourth and fifth year guys.

Upfront on dline also very mature and experienced with seniors Richardson, Merrick, Stelter and rs junior Moore.

Seniors Celestin and Poock and junior Cashman anchoring linebacker with rising sophomore stars Martin, Barber, Waters getting great experience last year. Junior Julian Huff may help.

Fifth year guy at punter, fourth year guy at kicker.

Fifth year McGhee and third year Huff and fifth year Ayinde look to be in two deep at safety.

Cornerback has junior Shenault at one spot, maybe soph Winfield at nickel. Probably soph Durr or rs frosh Kiondre at other corner.

Redshirt soph DeLattiboudere and rs junior Gibson at def end.

Rush end may rely on sophs Coughlin and Devers.

QB battle between third and fifth year guys...both who have had a season taking all the number two reps, both who have seen at least some Big Ten game action. Even or better with QB situations at Iowa, Nebraska, MSU, Illinois, Oregon State, Maryland, maybe Michigan.
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I can almost guarantee Iowa, Nebraska, MSU, OSU, and Michigan get significantly better QB play than us this year. Illinois and Maryland are train wrecks so who knows? Seriously, please explain to me how Croft/Rhoda can be seen as better QB situation than at Michigan?
 

GopherHomer said:
I can almost guarantee Iowa, Nebraska, MSU, OSU, and Michigan get significantly better QB play than us this year. Illinois and Maryland are train wrecks so who knows? Seriously, please explain to me how Croft/Rhoda can be seen as better QB situation than at Michigan?
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Based on what? NEB QB struggled mightily in a significantly inferior league against significantly inferior talent, putting up ML like passing numbers...minus the run ability or production. He's about as immobile as they come. Iowa lost nearly all its skill position players on offense.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
I'm sure they're great at that, but I have watched our offense for the last 6 years. The OL was terrible last year. Who knows what's going to happen at QB. I think WR will be the position the young guys replace the older guys the fastest. I also feel the same way at DB outside of Winfield, who is obviously still only a sophomore.
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We won nine games last year. We have talent
 

PMWinSTP said:
Based on what? NEB QB struggled mightily in a significantly inferior league against significantly inferior talent, putting up ML like passing numbers...minus the run ability or production. He's about as immobile as they come. Iowa lost nearly all its skill position players on offense.
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Based less on the other schools really excelling, and based more on what I think our passing game will look like this year. It's a hunch and I could be wrong...we will see I guess.
 


Your need to lower Flecks expectation s is laughable. Our front seven is stacked which will take the pressure off our Dbacks. We have two running backs capable of going over 1000 yards and it's not like the teams on our schedule bring everyone back either. Our non con is easy, our cross over games are manageable. The West is the same as last year and we were in all of those games until the end.There isn't a team on this schedule that will make rationale fan say we have no shot. If you weren't willing to give our last coach the benefit of the doubt than it is hypocritical to lower expectations this year for a guy making three times amount in salary
 

As someone who is probably labeled as one who is attempting to 'lower expectations' for Fleck, I just want to get this out there. My expectations are sky high! I just don't think we will necessarily see those met in year 1. I'm not predicting disaster as the previous staff did leave roughly half of our position groups in very nice shape. I'm simply predicting a rather typical Gopher year in 2017 with 6 or 7 regular season wins being the most the common result (although I do think 5 wins is slightly more likely than 8). We have been, and still are, at a talent/depth deficit compared to most of our peers in the conference. The previous staff did an amazing job of finding under-recruited guys to perfectly fit their system and maximize their potential. I have no clue if our current roster is filled with guys that fit what Fleck wants to do (regardless of random "coach-speak" quotes that may be out there) - hence my uncertainty.

My optimism for Fleck is that eventually he will get a little high caliber of athlete into our program, which will raise our potential (hat tip to the previous staff for getting the facilities kick-started, which will also help). I sincerely hope that I am underestimating Fleck's ability to hit the ground running as I want the Gophers to win every game on the schedule. Sometimes I like to engage in hyperbole and challenge other posters' agenda with my own, but I feel like this post most closely resembles my truth. Cheers!
 

bemidjigopher said:
Your need to lower Flecks expectation s is laughable. Our front seven is stacked which will take the pressure off our Dbacks. We have two running backs capable of going over 1000 yards and it's not like the teams on our schedule bring everyone back either. Our non con is easy, our cross over games are manageable. The West is the same as last year and we were in all of those games until the end.There isn't a team on this schedule that will make rationale fan say we have no shot. If you weren't willing to give our last coach the benefit of the doubt than it is hypocritical to lower expectations this year for a guy making three times amount in salary
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I'm sorry you confuse reality with lowering expectations. You say stacked front 7, yet our starting DE's average 6'3.5" and 236 lbs this year and are only Sophomores. Last year they were a JR and SR averaging 6'5.5" and 258 lbs. How are this year's going to hold up against the good OL's we play? It's much different when you can bring in the smaller guys to only pass rush, this year they have to play every down.

This year's non-conference is more difficult than last years. You say the West is the same, but we finished 4th last year. I agree that we could beat anyone, but we could also lose to anyone, except Buffalo, we're not losing to them. Our regular season range of wins has been 5-8 the last 5 years, and I think they'll fall in that range again this year. But I think 6 wins is far more likely than 8, and once again they'll finish 4th or 5th in the West. I'm not sure how that's 'lowering expectations' with some major holes on this roster.
 

bemidjigopher said:
Your need to lower Flecks expectation s is laughable. Our front seven is stacked which will take the pressure off our Dbacks. We have two running backs capable of going over 1000 yards and it's not like the teams on our schedule bring everyone back either. Our non con is easy, our cross over games are manageable. The West is the same as last year and we were in all of those games until the end.There isn't a team on this schedule that will make rationale fan say we have no shot. If you weren't willing to give our last coach the benefit of the doubt than it is hypocritical to lower expectations this year for a guy making three times amount in salary
Click to expand...

The over under for wins is at 7.5 for a reason.

Being realistic about the talent on the squad is not an attempt to lower expectations for the new HC.


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swingman said:
Lot of veterans, older, mature guys.

Olson may be the only oline man in two deep without experience, and he took a lot of good snaps last Fall and all the snaps this Spring. Fifth year Wright, fourth year Greene, fourth year Weyler, fourth/fifth year Calhoun, third year guys Connelly, Dovich, Oseland.

Looks like three running backs with experience. Two of them fourth year guys, two of them three year starters

Top two receivers seem to be Still and Tyler, both experienced and by Fleck's own comments super talented. Fifth year Carter in mix and fourth year Holland in mix.

Top two tight ends Woz and Lingen fourth and fifth year guys.

Upfront on dline also very mature and experienced with seniors Richardson, Merrick, Stelter and rs junior Moore.

Seniors Celestin and Poock and junior Cashman anchoring linebacker with rising sophomore stars Martin, Barber, Waters getting great experience last year. Junior Julian Huff may help.

Fifth year guy at punter, fourth year guy at kicker.

Fifth year McGhee and third year Huff and fifth year Ayinde look to be in two deep at safety.

Cornerback has junior Shenault at one spot, maybe soph Winfield at nickel. Probably soph Durr or rs frosh Kiondre at other corner.

Redshirt soph DeLattiboudere and rs junior Gibson at def end.

Rush end may rely on sophs Coughlin and Devers.

QB battle between third and fifth year guys...both who have had a season taking all the number two reps, both who have seen at least some Big Ten game action. Even or better with QB situations at Iowa, Nebraska, MSU, Illinois, Oregon State, Maryland, maybe Michigan.
Click to expand...

Swingman, your posts seem to hint at a very successful season. Seems like you're indirectly saying this team is set up to win 9 or 10 games and possibly win the West. That it is going to surprise people. If the corners and QB's step up and the team stays pretty healthy, I can see it.


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Some Day...Maybe said:
Swingman, your posts seem to hint at a very successful season. Seems like you're indirectly saying this team is set up to win 9 or 10 games and possibly win the West. That it is going to surprise people. If the corners and QB's step up and the team stays pretty healthy, I can see it.


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A season like that wouldn't surprise me, but I'm not expecting it.
 

Some Day...Maybe said:
Swingman, your posts seem to hint at a very successful season. Seems like you're indirectly saying this team is set up to win 9 or 10 games and possibly win the West. That it is going to surprise people. If the corners and QB's step up and the team stays pretty healthy, I can see it.


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I read the same post and think he's just countering the Flecksters who think 4-6 wins is a reasonable expectation. I read swingman saying there is no valid reason for a drop-off. I agree.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I'm sure they're great at that, but I have watched our offense for the last 6 years. The OL was terrible last year. Who knows what's going to happen at QB. I think WR will be the position the young guys replace the older guys the fastest. I also feel the same way at DB outside of Winfield, who is obviously still only a sophomore.
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Profound takes.

3 JUCO OL played last year (Greene, Wright, Calhoun...may even be one I'm missing). Still and Johnson played a bunch at WR last year as underclassman. A bunch of experienced DBs were kicked off the team last year, and they played Durr, Craighton, etc. QB has never not been a question mark here.

Literally every one of these things happened last year. Yet, they won 9 games, and it wasn't enough, coach sucked, etc. Now, somehow, Fleck shouldn't be expected to win 6, and if he wins 8-9 he's going to be the next Bear Bryant.

I really like PJ Fleck. Love the hire. But it's comical how some will go when it comes to the various Fleck vs Claeys narratives.
 

Heracles said:
Profound takes.

3 JUCO OL played last year (Greene, Wright, Calhoun...may even be one I'm missing). Still and Johnson played a bunch at WR last year as underclassman. A bunch of experienced DBs were kicked off the team last year, and they played Durr, Craighton, etc. QB has never not been a question mark here.

Literally every one of these things happened last year. Yet, they won 9 games, and it wasn't enough, coach sucked, etc. Now, somehow, Fleck shouldn't be expected to win 6, and if he wins 8-9 he's going to be the next Bear Bryant.

I really like PJ Fleck. Love the hire. But it's comical how some will go when it comes to the various Fleck vs Claeys narratives.[/QUOT

2016 was a "peak" season for our previous staff's program (8 regular season wins is awesome - congrats to them). 2017 would have been a struggle for Claeys stemming from their lazy/ineffective recruiting. Fleck is taking over the sub-par scraps. That is the distinction. I really can't believe the idiocy of people thinking that 2016 was some sort of 'stepping stone' year...2016 was no fun. It's like everybody wants to forget that...we skated by on an easy schedule and won the games we were favored in. 2013 and 2014 were VASTLY more impressive.
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Heracles said:
Profound takes.

3 JUCO OL played last year (Greene, Wright, Calhoun...may even be one I'm missing). Still and Johnson played a bunch at WR last year as underclassman. A bunch of experienced DBs were kicked off the team last year, and they played Durr, Craighton, etc. QB has never not been a question mark here.

Literally every one of these things happened last year. Yet, they won 9 games, and it wasn't enough, coach sucked, etc. Now, somehow, Fleck shouldn't be expected to win 6, and if he wins 8-9 he's going to be the next Bear Bryant.

I really like PJ Fleck. Love the hire. But it's comical how some will go when it comes to the various Fleck vs Claeys narratives.
Click to expand...

Again those 3 JUCOs were not very good. Prisig and Moore were our best OL and they are gone off what was already a bad OL. Still and Johnson had a combined 32 receptions for 490 yards and 1 TD. Last year we returned Wolitarsky who had 39 for 524 and 3 TDs by himself his JR year. Leidner wasn't great, but like it or not, he's still one of the best QBs in school history. We have no idea what we're replacing him with.

We had two NFL'ers anchoring our DBs. That's not the case this year. All of these positions are bigger question marks this year than they were going into last year.

But 9 wins....yet the best win until the bowl game was over Northwestern who finished the regular season 6-6.
 

GopherHomer said:
2016 was a "peak" season for our previous staff's program (8 regular season wins is awesome - congrats to them). 2017 would have been a struggle for Claeys stemming from their lazy/ineffective recruiting. Fleck is taking over the sub-par scraps. That is the distinction. I really can't believe the idiocy of people thinking that 2016 was some sort of 'stepping stone' year...2016 was no fun. It's like everybody wants to forget that...we skated by on an easy schedule and won the games we were favored in. 2013 and 2014 were VASTLY more impressive.
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Is that so? You know it was the ceiling? You think this year's schedule looks a lot tougher? You didn't like our 2016 recruiting class (the only one that signed while TC was HC and could be ranked higher than this year's will be)? Wow, those are some great takes Homer.


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Put me in the Swingman, PMW, Spoofin group that thinks we have talent. That thinks 43 returning lettermen is a positive, not a negative.

For me PJ is annoying. For all his talk of positivity he sure broadcasts a lot of whoa is me. No where in his Elite video is confidence or believing in yourself and your teammates discussed. But there is the Famers Alliance and telling the truth. PJ is not doing that about his football team (imo). No where in the HYPRR video does he speak of confidence in yourself or believing in your teammates or yourself. Confidence, love and trust, a belief in yourself one another are the only ways a team or players can achieve greater heights than expected (imo). Constantly whining in the media about shortcomings to lower expectations erodes confidence and creates doubt in your players. Questioning is motivating. Preaching incessantly about your perceived problems makes them a reality. (again, I know you all don't agree, it's just my perception of his words) We only hear 2 minute sound bites. The players hear 15 and half hours a day of what I'm sure is positivity. Just the contrast surprises me. The omission of belief and confidence in his culture definition puzzle me. The passioned preaching of Farmers Alliance and PJ spewing words totally contrary to his culture mission definition makes it all annoying to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLAalXfKPHU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwH2IGCmlec
 

GopherHomer said:
Heracles said:
Profound takes.

3 JUCO OL played last year (Greene, Wright, Calhoun...may even be one I'm missing). Still and Johnson played a bunch at WR last year as underclassman. A bunch of experienced DBs were kicked off the team last year, and they played Durr, Craighton, etc. QB has never not been a question mark here.

Literally every one of these things happened last year. Yet, they won 9 games, and it wasn't enough, coach sucked, etc. Now, somehow, Fleck shouldn't be expected to win 6, and if he wins 8-9 he's going to be the next Bear Bryant.

I really like PJ Fleck. Love the hire. But it's comical how some will go when it comes to the various Fleck vs Claeys narratives.[/QUOT

2016 was a "peak" season for our previous staff's program (8 regular season wins is awesome - congrats to them). 2017 would have been a struggle for Claeys stemming from their lazy/ineffective recruiting. Fleck is taking over the sub-par scraps. That is the distinction. I really can't believe the idiocy of people thinking that 2016 was some sort of 'stepping stone' year...2016 was no fun. It's like everybody wants to forget that...we skated by on an easy schedule and won the games we were favored in. 2013 and 2014 were VASTLY more impressive.
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I fully agree with this
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