Shooter: Ex-Gopher QB Jacques Perra expected to start for St. Thomas

oak_street1981 said:

Saint Johns was kicking everyone in the MIAC around for a very long time, with massive rosters, and plenty of recruits on board who had upper D2 NCC (NDSU, No. Dakota, SDSU) talent, but chose to play for Gagliardi and accept the financial aid that made the choice close to on par with the D2 scholarship.

No one seems to have had an issue with any of that (except for maybe Carleton who they beat 70-7? in a NCAA DIII playoff game one year), but suddenly the whining commenced when St. Thomas was finally able to sustain the type of success for a few years that they flirted with for a brief time in the early 80s under Dr. Mark Dienhardt.

I have no doubt that those old St. Johns teams could have competed with the heavyweights of the old North Central Conference. What St. Thomas is doing today Is not much different that what Saint Johns is still tying to do, and certainly some of the other big fish in DIII football also do. They put a decent amount of resources into football, have a very competent, large staff, offer good levels of financial aid, and happen to be in a great recruiting area for top players who are not quite low D1 talents. If I was 18 right now, I'd probably go to Gustavus or Augsburg and get the playing time, and also have some fun, but the appeal of St. Thomas is very strong.

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You're right. From the 1970s until 2010, St. John's was golden. Gustavus, Concordia-Moorhead, and St. Thomas also had consistently strong squads in the 1970s. Gusties have been up-and-down since then, but Concordia-Moorhead still brings in those big corn-fed farm kids from the Dakotas and Montana that can put the hurt on you. Trouble is, St. Thomas seems to be getting all the playmakers (and Perra should be the next in line). Getting back to St. John's, it's quite a sight to see about 100 guys dressed for a home game streaming onto the field up in Collegeville. Gagliardi did such a good job of grooming guys and having starting line-ups that were primarily juniors and seniors. Experience can provide a big edge at the D3 level.

D2 is kind of a no-mans-land for football since the demise of the NCC. The big schools went FCS, and the others dropped down to the NSIC, which maintains scholarship limits below the D2 maximum (and a few went D3, like UMM and Morningside). And as someone who attended a D2 school in Minnesota, it's a different vibe in terms of school support than it is at an MIAC school. And the MIAC gets a LOT more media coverage, especially in the Twin Cities, than any D2 conference ever has.

I've thought for a while that UST going D1 and playing non-scholarship FCS in the Pioneer League would make the most sense in terms of where their programs overall are.

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St John's tweeted this recently. I was on the field against all those previously mentioned teams in the early 80's and I can confirm that yes, SJU was the original version of what St Thomas is now with similar discussion of going D1. They also won 4 National Titles in their day.

oldauggie said:

That makes three Auggies including me, I was there in the early to mid 80's. I do follow the MIAC as close as the Big Ten these days and can tell you the gap between St Thomas and the other schools has really increased in the last 5 years. Not long ago, in 2013 we (Augsburg) had them on the ropes with a lead in the 3rd quarter and only some great play calling on Caruso's part brought the Tommies back to win by a late field goal to win 17-14. Now they dominate the MIAC with high scoring games each week and former D1 kids on both sides of the ball. However.......they have won exactly 0 National Titles in football as Mt Union continues to dominate them. I don't see that changing.

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Four. 1979-82.

Our hockey team was national champs when I was there...our football team not so much. My broomball team was pretty good.

dpodoll68 said:

Yes - the all or nothing means revenue sports (football and basketball) - in other words, you can't be DI in basketball and then DII or DIII in football. They will grant exemptions for non-revenue sports like hockey. Johns Hopkins is another example - they're DI (Big Ten) in lacrosse, but DIII in everything else.

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They grandfathered those teams into the rule. They will not grant new exceptions to St. Thomas if they want to add a D1 team in an non-revenue sport.

The Tommies talked about moving up at one point, but decided against it. When they spent $60 Million on a new arena and only put in 2,000 seats that's a pretty strong signal they wanted to stay in D3.

As to their compeitive advantage, enrollment is pretty meaningless for most recruits unless a school is so small they don't have your major. They have little advantages everywhere that has added up, but if they hire the wrong coach or start losing recruits it's pretty easy to lose ground.

It would be fun if they did go D1, but unless the Big East suddenly gets desperate and sends them an invite, it's not going to happen.

A lot of Eastern DI BB teams play in arenas not much different than the recently built UST arena in the large athletic complex facing the football field. Even some of the Big East Teams (Seton Hall, St. Johns, Georgetown) to this day still play in a small on campus gym once in a while with the big games being played at the big downtown arena. (MSG, Verizon Center, DT Newark Iron Bound district arena - very nice)

I doubt St. Thomas wants to deal with DI, but if they did they would try to play at the Xcel Energy Center when they could. The X is a good basketball arena if fully configured for Basketball. The upper seats are much closer to the court than at Target Center with concessions and an open concourse steps away from any upper seat. Compare that to Target Center, a giant single upper bowl with many steps to get anywhere and no open upper concourse. Taylor spent all that money on the renovation and all they did was put lipstick on a pig.

oak_street1981 said:

A lot of Eastern DI BB teams play in arenas not much different than the recently built UST arena in the large athletic complex facing the football field. Even some of the Big East Teams (Seton Hall, St. Johns, Georgetown) to this day still play in a small on campus gym once in a while with the big games being played at the big downtown arena. (MSG, Verizon Center, DT Newark Iron Bound district arena - very nice)

I doubt St. Thomas wants to deal with DI, but if they did they would try to play at the Xcel Energy Center when they could. The X is a good basketball arena if fully configured for Basketball. The upper seats are much closer to the court than at Target Center with concessions and an open concourse steps away from any upper seat. Compare that to Target Center, a giant single upper bowl with many steps to get anywhere and no open upper concourse. Taylor spent all that money on the renovation and all they did was put lipstick on a pig.

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That's nice that the upper level seats are a bit closer, but the lower level seats are much farther away. Maybe if they put the court in a corner of the building you could get a little atmosphere but when you put it in the middle of a big empty floor, you kill the atmosphere.

oak_street1981 said:

Saint Johns was kicking everyone in the MIAC around for a very long time, with massive rosters, and plenty of recruits on board who had upper D2 NCC (NDSU, No. Dakota, SDSU) talent, but chose to play for Gagliardi and accept the financial aid that made the choice close to on par with the D2 scholarship.

No one seems to have had an issue with any of that (except for maybe Carleton who they beat 70-7? in a NCAA DIII playoff game one year), but suddenly the whining commenced when St. Thomas was finally able to sustain the type of success for a few years that they flirted with for a brief time in the early 80s under Dr. Mark Dienhardt.

I have no doubt that those old St. Johns teams could have competed with the heavyweights of the old North Central Conference. What St. Thomas is doing today Is not much different that what Saint Johns is still tying to do, and certainly some of the other big fish in DIII football also do. They put a decent amount of resources into football, have a very competent, large staff, offer good levels of financial aid, and happen to be in a great recruiting area for top players who are not quite low D1 talents. If I was 18 right now, I'd probably go to Gustavus or Augsburg and get the playing time, and also have some fun, but the appeal of St. Thomas is very strong.

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A lot of their guys still are that caliber of player. Their QB, Jackson Erdmann, was the gatorade Minnesota player of the year and was a PWO for Penn State for a semester, they just landed Danny Pietruszewski who was a PWO TE for the gophers last year, I know their TE had a PWO offer from the gophers as well as a couple DII offers and Josh Parks, former gopher PWO RB, originally transferred to SJU and then to UST. I think they have a few more guys like that but not sure. They also still have 190+ man rosters. UST definitely has much better size on the O-line though.

Geeze, we are giving Pat Ruesse fodder for another exclusive article on the St. Thomas football experience.

GopherPlaya said:

I hope this was sarcasm

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It was not. They could easily join the Missouri Valley Conference. Heck, in 10 years, I think the Big East would take them due to them being able to enter the Twin Cities market.

I get that it would cost 10-20 million (10 million annually plus about 10 million for more renovations) to go D1 in all their current sports and would require the football team to go D1-AA or eliminate football, but UST has lots of money to spend it would be a great investment for their university (get more applicants, get more national exposure because their school is division 1, school and business school ranking increases=more overall national prestige for their school). Further, UST always talks about having more national exposure and prestige for their school, so anybody please inform me of more cost-effective ways this could be done.

Think about why HS students even apply to Creighton or Marquette or Gonzaga, it has a lot to do with these schools having good d1 basketball programs and solid academics (Believe me, I've been to Creighton an Marquette and UST campus is light years better). And if you don't believe that, ask any of those applicants or current students there if they would've gone there had they NOT had division 1 sports or a division 1 basketball team, the key word is "HAD THEY NOT". Many of them, sadly, would prb say they love the school but would've never attended it if not for d1 sports (even if its just 5 basketball games per year). In addition, UST is larger than all three of these schools, as well has comparable/nicer facilities than many division 1 schools in mid major conferences (for example the Missouri Valley Conference).

And if you really think they couldn't make the NCAA tourney is every sport within 10 years, you're the classic pessimistic Minnesota person and see the glass half full. There’s no reason their hockey team with 5 years of recruits, couldn't be a national contender (look at all the small schools that have success in hockey), there’s no reason their basketball team wouldn't attract top MID-MAJOR talent and couldn't make the NCAA tournament with in 5-10 years, there’s no reason why their volleyball, or baseball, or soccer, or every other division 1 sports programs couldn't have phenomenal success.

I think the U of M would benefit from this as they would have competition in their own town and hopefully raise the bar for their athletic program.