Carter Coughlin bulking up for DE; hopes to get to 235#, last year was 214#

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Johnnyboy18 said:
Think of it as 3-4 outside linebacker, I don't see a problem with it.
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Yeah, I try to look at it that way. The coaches call it a 4-3 and label him a DE, but if they did the same exact thing and called it a 3-4 and CC an OLB, then I would probably think it was a perfect fit. Definitely one of the cases where we have to trust the coaches and form opinions after we see a few games.

My biggest concern, FTR, is moving a talent like CC out of the LB position he seems perfect for.


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Coughlin is one of our better defensive players. He needs to be on the field. Whether it's at DE or OLB shouldn't matter. But if he moves to LB, then one of our other talented LB isn't on the field as Celestine, Poock, Barber, Cashman, etc. Don't have the physical tools to play DE like Coughlin does. Moving him there for a year makes most sense and is an upgrade at DE with Winston compared to our starters of Ekpe and Elmore last year.


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GFBfan said:
Coughlin is one of our better defensive players. He needs to be on the field. Whether it's at DE or OLB shouldn't matter. But if he moves to LB, then one of our other talented LB isn't on the field as Celestine, Poock, Barber, Cashman, etc. Don't have the physical tools to play DE like Coughlin does. Moving him there for a year makes most sense and is an upgrade at DE with Winston compared to our starters of Ekpe and Elmore last year.


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A valid point. Team first. Go Gophers!


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Some guy said:
That is completely dependent on scheme

For instance Navy had a middle of the pack rush defense and were undersized at every positon
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You can get away with an undersized defense a little easier in the AAC than you can in the Big Ten. It's easier to stop the run versus Tulane or East Carolina than it is versus Wisconsin or Michigan St. They gave up 412 rushing yards to USF and 316 to Army, for crying out loud. They gave up 4.6 yards per rush against an AAC and service academy schedule, while we gave up 3.4 against a Big Ten schedule. Thank you for providing material to reinforce my correct points.
 

GFBfan said:
Coughlin is one of our better defensive players. He needs to be on the field. Whether it's at DE or OLB shouldn't matter. But if he moves to LB, then one of our other talented LB isn't on the field as Celestine, Poock, Barber, Cashman, etc. Don't have the physical tools to play DE like Coughlin does. Moving him there for a year makes most sense and is an upgrade at DE with Winston compared to our starters of Ekpe and Elmore last year.


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How can the position not matter? Shannon Brooks is also one of our better players, but I don't want to see him at offensive guard.

Not to mention Coughlin has never played DE in his life. I'm not sure how anyone could call him an upgrade at the position over 2 multi-year starters when you haven't been to practice and have never seen him play a game at the position. But keep digging.
 


Spoofin said:
Team first. Still, sucks to have to move our highest rated LB in years to a different position due to depth.


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It's basically a LB position still. He's standing up as an OLB.


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I'm not a defensive coordinator in my free time, so maybe I don't know exactly what I am talking about. Here's my two cents, though: a 3-4 defense IS pretty much a 4-3 with a LB as a blitzing end, right? This seems to be what wisconsin has done for the last several years. Given our temporary depth at DT, I wouldn't be against maybe throwing Richardson, Jackson, Stelter our there together with one of our rush ends (LBs). We may not need to, though...we should only panic if we get pushed around against the run. If not we will be dynamic with the pass rush. I mean, honestly, we really haven't had a feared DE since Van de Steeg.
 

Look, I don't know how it will end up. I'm not a B1G defensive coordinator, nor am I able to predict the future. That said, I like having stud players on the field because they make plays. Like somebody in this thread said earlier, I want the best 11 on the field.

CC will do it all at DE. He'll drop into coverage (which he does extremely well), play the QB on option, rush off the edge on passing downs (a la Cashman and Huff, probably better), slant a ton on running downs, etc. Again, he's a football player. I don't envision him getting blown off the ball by anybody on a regular basis, 1) because he understands how to use leverage and play low, and 2) because I imagine he'll mainly line up against TE's and H-Backs on obvious running downs to minimize his deficiencies -- and even then he'll be slanting a lot and being asked to simply keep contain. He'll then line up against OT on the weak side on passing downs to speed rush.
 

John Galt said:
How can the position not matter? Shannon Brooks is also one of our better players, but I don't want to see him at offensive guard.

Not to mention Coughlin has never played DE in his life. I'm not sure how anyone could call him an upgrade at the position over 2 multi-year starters when you haven't been to practice and have never seen him play a game at the position. But keep digging.
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Check for a gas leak at your house.
 



John Galt said:
How can the position not matter? Shannon Brooks is also one of our better players, but I don't want to see him at offensive guard.

Not to mention Coughlin has never played DE in his life. I'm not sure how anyone could call him an upgrade at the position over 2 multi-year starters when you haven't been to practice and have never seen him play a game at the position. But keep digging.
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DE or OLB have some similarities. Especially when rushing the passer. Your brooks to OL comparison is no applicable here. Now if Winfield was being moved to DE, then that would be a comparison, but moving a LB to DE isn't a stretch as it has been done before. Need examples? That is why position doesn't matter in this case.
Didn't he play a similar position at EP? They used him all over to take advantage of his skills. He is a smart player with great skills, which means he will figure out how to make plays against the run and pass. Really excited to see him on the field for more snaps this year
To use your logic, neither was drafted so therefore not talented DE. Although Elmore may after his year at ECU. Coughlin will be drafted and Winston is similar to either Ekpe or Elmore so, yes indeed it is an upgrade. But you keep tamping. [emoji12]


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From the reports, the Rush End is really more of a 3-4 LB. We've seen video of them dropping into coverage. Seems like a zone blitz type look to confuse the OL on who is rushing. I think Coughlin is a great fit for this role.

Once they recruit more talent at DE, I suspect Coughlin to go back to traditional LB.


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BBShopGo4 said:
From the reports, the Rush End is really more of a 3-4 LB. We've seen video of them dropping into coverage. Seems like a zone blitz type look to confuse the OL on who is rushing. I think Coughlin is a great fit for this role.

Once they recruit more talent at DE, I suspect Coughlin to go back to traditional LB.


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Agreed, I think what Carter is doing can be compared to Clay Matthews role on the Packers.
 

I thought he did a lot of this in high school? I remember a lot of his tape featuring edge rushing. Probably isn't too much of a reach for him.
 



I would hope that, if the Gophs are playing a power running team that is running max blocking off-tackle schemes, the coaches are smart enough to shift the personnel around and get a bigger defender at the point of attack. If they just leave Coughlin out there to get steamrolled, that would not be very good coaching in my book.

My sense, based on what Fleck has said, is that they are going to play mix-and-match on the defense to try and get the best possible match-ups. I would not be surprised to see a ton of guys rotating around on virtually every play depending on down, distance and field position. The only guys who will be out there every down for sure are Richardson, Winfield and Celestin. beyond that, better have your program handy to figure out who is where.
 

dpodoll68 said:
You can get away with an undersized defense a little easier in the AAC than you can in the Big Ten. It's easier to stop the run versus Tulane or East Carolina than it is versus Wisconsin or Michigan St. They gave up 412 rushing yards to USF and 316 to Army, for crying out loud. They gave up 4.6 yards per rush against an AAC and service academy schedule, while we gave up 3.4 against a Big Ten schedule. Thank you for providing material to reinforce my correct points.
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You clearly don't know anything about football
 

GopherHomer said:
I'm not a defensive coordinator in my free time, so maybe I don't know exactly what I am talking about. Here's my two cents, though: a 3-4 defense IS pretty much a 4-3 with a LB as a blitzing end, right? This seems to be what wisconsin has done for the last several years. Given our temporary depth at DT, I wouldn't be against maybe throwing Richardson, Jackson, Stelter our there together with one of our rush ends (LBs). We may not need to, though...we should only panic if we get pushed around against the run. If not we will be dynamic with the pass rush. I mean, honestly, we really haven't had a feared DE since Van de Steeg.
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It can be. A lot of 3-4 defenses don't automatically blitz an outside linebacker every time. Against the run when playing a team using tight ends a 3-4 is basically a 5-2
 

highwayman said:
Expert. Thank god Chicken Little doesn't coach football.
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Says the guy worried it would take a lot of time for a leftie QB to acclimate to a "right handed" offense. Thank g-d you don't coach.


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C'Mon Man said:
I thought he did a lot of this in high school? I remember a lot of his tape featuring edge rushing. Probably isn't too much of a reach for him.
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He probably didn't take on a lot of 320# OTs in high school which he will on weakside runs or 290-300# pulling centers if we play our DT in a 2 or 2i technique on CCs side.


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kisarazu said:
Here's an article on lefties vs righties in football. Some interesting stuff.
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Especially this part

Do coordinators have more trouble drawing up plays and designing offensive schemes for left-handed quarterbacks?

"When you're thinking through play action and the easiest way to fake and the most comfortable throw, you automatically think of how it affects right-handers," said Houston Texans quarterbacks coach Sean Ryan. "You have to kind of think it through, but that's probably the biggest obstacle. And it [isn't] even an obstacle, you just have to think about it a little bit."

Cincinnati Bengals offensive coordinator Ken Zampese was more blunt.

"None of those things make any difference," he said. "It makes absolutely no difference. We're not into left hand/right hand, we're into production. Because that's what wins. I'm way more concerned with what's between the ears than height/weight/speed stuff or stuff that matters even less, like what hand he throws with."


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I haven't read the discussion carefully enough maybe but the biggest difference is where you play your best tackle to protect the quarterback's blindside. Can your beast left tackle move to the right side for a lefty?
 

Section2 said:
It's basically a LB position still. He's standing up as an OLB.


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An interesting and sometimes successful way to make up for a lack of depth on the line. Usually confusing for o lines not knowing if a guy is rushing or dropping into coverage. Could be an interesting defense also bringing a db up to the lb level too. Wasn't it mentioned they might do that with winfield?


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CentralGopher said:
An interesting and sometimes successful way to make up for a lack of depth on the line. Usually confusing for o lines not knowing if a guy is rushing or dropping into coverage.


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I'm no expert. But to me, a normal 3-4 has one DT, and two DEs, even though they are both strong side DEs basically. 4-3, has 2 DTs right? In a sense, we'll be running a 2-4-5 against most teams, with Winfield acting as a LB-nickel hybrid, and Kamal and Carter as rush ends/OLBs.

Anyway, an OLB is going to take on lineman on running plays anyway, it's not as if Carter at OLB doesn't play against OTs, and now he will.
 

To me, I think the 3-4 would be ideal in college if you can successfully use it to stop the run vs power teams using the 5-2 line up at snap.

Creating chaos, confusing 21 yo college olinemen with some crazy blitzes is essentially what has made sconnie defense so good out of 3-4. They take the 230 lb guys that are available here and create a defense that is feared.
 

John Galt said:
How can the position not matter? Shannon Brooks is also one of our better players, but I don't want to see him at offensive guard.
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But would you want to see Shannon Brooks split out? Be put in a position where his natural abilities and talents can be exploited?

Saying that he could move to guard just to see the field is a idiotic statement.

If Carter Coughlin has shown the ability to play (exceed?) at rush end and linebacker, there is ample reason to find him time at those positions. On Saturday he was working out with both units.
 

Spoofin said:
Yeah, I try to look at it that way. The coaches call it a 4-3 and label him a DE, but if they did the same exact thing and called it a 3-4 and CC an OLB, then I would probably think it was a perfect fit. Definitely one of the cases where we have to trust the coaches and form opinions after we see a few games.

My biggest concern, FTR, is moving a talent like CC out of the LB position he seems perfect for.


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Wasn't he an outside LB any way and so it's not really a move
 

Brooks is a running back and that's clearly his best position. I wouldn't mind splitting him out a handful of times each game, just like it makes sense to let CC occasionally rush off the edge. The issue is that if Brooks had to split out all game, it's not ideal because it's clearly not his best position and would be an indictment on how poor our WRs are. Same with CC. I want players playing the position that they are best at. No doubt CC will be effective and make some plays at DE but he is far more suited to play OLB.
 

John Galt said:
Brooks is a running back and that's clearly his best position. I wouldn't mind splitting him out a handful of times each game, just like it makes sense to let CC occasionally rush off the edge. The issue is that if Brooks had to split out all game, it's not ideal because it's clearly not his best position and would be an indictment on how poor our WRs are. Same with CC. I want players playing the position that they are best at. No doubt CC will be effective and make some plays at DE but he is far more suited to play OLB.
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Carter playing rush end is about getting the best 11 on the field. We have tons of great LBs and few DEs. He might be better suited to a 4-3 OLB, but maybe he's not on the field, or it's taking a LB off the field who is better than the DE who replaces him.
 

The only head scratcher to me in this is why would you not take Martin or Barber (who were already 230+) last year and fit them to that role. Martin did some edge rushing last year and Barber at 6'1 233 is closest in frame to a DE.
 

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