AP: Rhoda, Croft Will Battle For Starting Job At Gophers Camp

My thought on this is, it is Crofts spot to lose. Just from practice observations over the past couple years and how PJF viewed Zach T at WMU, he is looking for a leader who also has a skill set to run his offense. Croft has the better all around tools, but he is lacking in being a vocal leader and needs to improve in that area to "win" the QB position. If he is able to show the team and coaches he can be a leader of the offense, he will be the starter. If he doesn't show great leadership qualities, that will open the door for Rhoda to take the job. The only way anybody else will get the nod at the beginning of the year is if both of those two fail to make any strides from the Spring. I don't see that happening.
 


The thing that none of us know is how hard each of the quarterbacks worked since spring practice. I don't think even the coaches know, yet, Croft and Rhoda are 1A and 1B right now but it's not out of the realm of possibility that they were out worked by one of the other quarterbacks. I'd go along with the 80% prediction that it'll be Croft or Rhoda. The first week is key if either Morgan or Green come into the conversation at the end of the week all bets are off.
 

I hope Croft is able to take control of the position since he is younger
 

I have dreamt of a Gopher QB that had great athleticism for some time now. Whichever legitimate RPO guy that can keep a defense on their tows would be my choice. Do we potentially have a guy like that? I think we might
 


since the flecksters have all assured us we can't win until year three, why would he burn one of "his guys" red shirt year now? Give them time to develop. We're not looking to win now, in three years......

That's pretty funny right there! I don't buy it, but funny nonetheless.
 

That's pretty funny right there! I don't buy it, but funny nonetheless.

Funny was the goal, as I don't believe for second Fleck will intentionally throw this season away. However, barring the situation we had in Kill's first year, I'd be surprised if a freshman sees the field this season at QB - didn't say won't happen, just said I'd be surprised.
 

I just can't believe that with our lack of super star QBs over the years, that some recruiter hasn't convinced a superstar QB how legendary he could become if he came here to UMN.

If you made up an All-Time All-Star lineup for the Gophers, it would be filled up with a ton of superstars, but honestly, our weakest position would probably be QB. Yes Sandy Stephens made All-America and the College Hall of Fame, but who outside of Minnesota looks at him as a Superstar?


I'm just saying, we should go after #1 rated QBs, and tell them they could become more legendary than Bronko Nagurski maybe if they come to Minnesota and take the Gophers to heights they haven't been to in 50+ years.
 

The first thing they'd ask is Bronco who?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 



The first thing they'd ask is Bronco who?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Unfortunately you are probably right.

But at least we could point to the Award named after him. That might resonate with some? I mean, its not like its just Gopher fans that see him as a great player.
 

I just can't believe that with our lack of super star QBs over the years, that some recruiter hasn't convinced a superstar QB how legendary he could become if he came here to UMN.

If you made up an All-Time All-Star lineup for the Gophers, it would be filled up with a ton of superstars, but honestly, our weakest position would probably be QB. Yes Sandy Stephens made All-America and the College Hall of Fame, but who outside of Minnesota looks at him as a Superstar?


I'm just saying, we should go after #1 rated QBs, and tell them they could become more legendary than Bronko Nagurski maybe if they come to Minnesota and take the Gophers to heights they haven't been to in 50+ years.

Because recruits don't just want to be a legend to the school. They want to be a legend nationally, and you would have to convince them that QB was the only thing our team was missing, which I think would be hard.
 

Unfortunately you are probably right.

But at least we could point to the Award named after him. That might resonate with some? I mean, its not like its just Gopher fans that see him as a great player.

I'd go with most kids these days really don't care.
 

I just can't believe that with our lack of super star QBs over the years, that some recruiter hasn't convinced a superstar QB how legendary he could become if he came here to UMN.

If you made up an All-Time All-Star lineup for the Gophers, it would be filled up with a ton of superstars, but honestly, our weakest position would probably be QB. Yes Sandy Stephens made All-America and the College Hall of Fame, but who outside of Minnesota looks at him as a Superstar?


I'm just saying, we should go after #1 rated QBs, and tell them they could become more legendary than Bronko Nagurski maybe if they come to Minnesota and take the Gophers to heights they haven't been to in 50+ years.

That same sales pitch also makes it sound how unlikely it is that you could become a superstar QB here....

If anything is clear it is that the top schools are able to stack up top talent one after another and the vast majority of croots don't give a damn if there is another 4 or 5 star in front of them.
 



From all accounts, Tony Rice was set to be a Gopher until Holtz bolted for Notre Dame and took a big chunk of the recruiting class with him. He probably would have been the best recent-era Gopher QB - although I loved Ricky Foggie.

Pivoting to a different point - upnorthkid may lose it after this post, but:

I have never understood this idea that you can't or shouldn't pull the starting QB if he struggles. I hear a lot of people say "If you yank the QB, he'll lose confidence." I would think that staying out there and stinking up the joint can't be great for the confidence, either.

If a baseball pitcher is getting shelled, you take him out of the game. If a shooting guard in basketball is tossing up bricks, you at least let him sit down for a while to re-group. If a hockey player is struggling, he might wind up as a healthy scratch. Nobody brings up the "confidence" angle for those sports. But for a FB QB, no matter how poorly he plays, some people maintain that you should not, under any circumstances, take him out of the game. I just don't buy it.

If the starting QB is having a bad day - throwing bad passes, fumbling, or having trouble reading the defense, I say give him a mental break on the sidelines - let him talk it over with the OC and QB coach, and let someone else have a shot at it. If nothing else, it gives the coaches a chance to evaluate a back-up in game conditions, so the back-up is better prepared in case the starting QB is injured.

just my opinion.
 

I just can't believe that with our lack of super star QBs over the years, that some recruiter hasn't convinced a superstar QB how legendary he could become if he came here to UMN.

If you made up an All-Time All-Star lineup for the Gophers, it would be filled up with a ton of superstars, but honestly, our weakest position would probably be QB. Yes Sandy Stephens made All-America and the College Hall of Fame, but who outside of Minnesota looks at him as a Superstar?


I'm just saying, we should go after #1 rated QBs, and tell them they could become more legendary than Bronko Nagurski maybe if they come to Minnesota and take the Gophers to heights they haven't been to in 50+ years.

That same sales pitch also makes it sound how unlikely it is that you could become a superstar QB here....

If anything is clear it is that the top schools are able to stack up top talent one after another and the vast majority of croots don't give a damn if there is another 4 or 5 star in front of them.

And if anyone knows they need great players around them to win it is a QB, and if he doesn't know that I think you're in trouble...
 

From all accounts, Tony Rice was set to be a Gopher until Holtz bolted for Notre Dame and took a big chunk of the recruiting class with him. He probably would have been the best recent-era Gopher QB - although I loved Ricky Foggie.

Pivoting to a different point - upnorthkid may lose it after this post, but:

I have never understood this idea that you can't or shouldn't pull the starting QB if he struggles. I hear a lot of people say "If you yank the QB, he'll lose confidence." I would think that staying out there and stinking up the joint can't be great for the confidence, either.

If a baseball pitcher is getting shelled, you take him out of the game. If a shooting guard in basketball is tossing up bricks, you at least let him sit down for a while to re-group. If a hockey player is struggling, he might wind up as a healthy scratch. Nobody brings up the "confidence" angle for those sports. But for a FB QB, no matter how poorly he plays, some people maintain that you should not, under any circumstances, take him out of the game. I just don't buy it.

If the starting QB is having a bad day - throwing bad passes, fumbling, or having trouble reading the defense, I say give him a mental break on the sidelines - let him talk it over with the OC and QB coach, and let someone else have a shot at it. If nothing else, it gives the coaches a chance to evaluate a back-up in game conditions, so the back-up is better prepared in case the starting QB is injured.

just my opinion.

Agree 100%. Some days one is simply "off" either mentally or physically and every former pitcher has experienced this. It seems the vast majority of football coaches are copycats (at least at the higher levels) or stubborn and the conventional wisdom is you ride your starter for better or worse (or until your job is in jeopardy) because that's the safest route both in terms of maybe the starter will right the ship and to avoid a fan base claiming the coach is mind****ing the starter. Perhaps they don't want to deal with a QB controversy if, gasp, the backup performs well. First world problems.

As long as it's made clear the starter will remain so pending future performance it seems like a no-brainer to bring in a spark. Then again, maybe the shelf is empty on some teams, e.g. MN 2015 which is a sad thought.
 

From all accounts, Tony Rice was set to be a Gopher until Holtz bolted for Notre Dame and took a big chunk of the recruiting class with him. He probably would have been the best recent-era Gopher QB - although I loved Ricky Foggie.

Pivoting to a different point - upnorthkid may lose it after this post, but:

I have never understood this idea that you can't or shouldn't pull the starting QB if he struggles. I hear a lot of people say "If you yank the QB, he'll lose confidence." I would think that staying out there and stinking up the joint can't be great for the confidence, either.

If a baseball pitcher is getting shelled, you take him out of the game. If a shooting guard in basketball is tossing up bricks, you at least let him sit down for a while to re-group. If a hockey player is struggling, he might wind up as a healthy scratch. Nobody brings up the "confidence" angle for those sports. But for a FB QB, no matter how poorly he plays, some people maintain that you should not, under any circumstances, take him out of the game. I just don't buy it.

If the starting QB is having a bad day - throwing bad passes, fumbling, or having trouble reading the defense, I say give him a mental break on the sidelines - let him talk it over with the OC and QB coach, and let someone else have a shot at it. If nothing else, it gives the coaches a chance to evaluate a back-up in game conditions, so the back-up is better prepared in case the starting QB is injured.

just my opinion.

I would go with, for most teams, the thought process is we picked the best guy for the job. Let's roll with the guy who is the best guy. Pulling him in a game has a potential positive (he plays well, he takes over your team), it also has a potential negative (he plays like crap and you lose the game). I don't think anyone has an issue pulling a guy when the game is out of hand and you plug in your backup (ie when we've played Croft in the past). However when you pull him mid-game in a competitive game, what are you pulling him for? for a guy who you said was not good enough to beat out the guy that is in the game. I would go with that is the logic behind it. I'm not saying that's the right or the wrong logic, but I'd go with that's the general gist of it.
In regards to my thought on the topic, I've got no problem with pulling a guy and sitting him if he's playing like ****e. But it needs to be done for the right reason in that you think the backup gives you the best chance to win the game, or that it's out of control and you want him to get some game action. The idea of a spark plug doesn't really vibe to me in the sense of that your starting QB should have been (or I'd hope so and I think this is what PJ is selecting based on) the guy who gives you the best chance to win, is the leader of the team, and provides that spark. It's the reason that they say a 2 QB system is a no QB system. You put out the guy who gives you the best chance, and that should be for every single series. Now if you've come into the year and you have 2 guys (or no guys) that are equally equipped, pull the dude who's sucking and see what happens. You just have to be comfortable with the repercussions of him succeeding (he's now your starter) or tanking (you get second-guessed by the media and your team if the game was in reach when you made the sub).
The situation I was talking, and I think this is why you put in the quote SON, is about when we, as fans, clamor for the backup after the QB starts 1-6 with a pick on the first 2 drives and we think that it's purely on the QB and the backup will save us when there are clearly other factors (our whole team is out of sync, the line is porous, we're playing a shut down D) contributing to the whole thing. It's fun as fans to fantasize about the little heralded backup or recruit who walks in and gets a chance late in a game and leads us to a comeback, starting a new golden age of Gopher football. But as a fan, I'm going to trust the coaches who have them in practice every day unless I personally feel I've seen something in game or on film that makes me feel that they are missing something. That's all. Nothing wrong with giving a guy some experience late in a blow out (win or loss). That I'm all for. But to equate a QB to a hockey player (you have 12 forwards, 6 defensemen so there are equivalent players), a starting pitcher (you have multiple every single game), or to a SG (basketball is made for subs and you don't see a guy sat for the whole game if he's just shooting poorly) doesn't make sense. You have maybe 3 QBs on a roster and usually you have a tiered set of skills with the best guy, by far, starting. Now if he's not the best by far, you should as a coach be willing to pull the trigger, and I would. I dunno what we have for our QBs, but it sounds like, to me, we have 2 guys who are above the others at this point pretty significantly. So to me, it's those 2 guys based on Fleck's most recent comments. Given that, I wouldn't be looking for Green, Estes, or whoever to come out of the shadows because I'm not putting my hopes on a fluke. But if Croft and Rhoda stay non-separable, PJ should be willing to pull the trigger to switch between them. I would be
 




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