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Pompous Elitist

Pompous Elitist

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Though I have read and enjoyed the articles at FootballStudyHall.com for many years I never thought anything like this would ever happen to me. I was sitting in my backyard looking at my Ipad when I came across this article about the new Gophers and what we might expect this season. Ian Boyd's words about potential championships made me so excited I had to go inside and grab some ice cubes to cool down. Let's just say that I plan to read Ian and Bill's articles again real soon.

https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2...r-wisconsin-steven-richardson-big-10#comments
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Though I have read and enjoyed the articles at FootballStudyHall.com for many years I never thought anything like this would ever happen to me. I was sitting in my backyard looking at my Ipad when I came across this article about the new Gophers and what we might expect this season. Ian Boyd's words about potential championships made me so excited I had to go inside and grab some ice cubes to cool down. Let's just say that I plan to read Ian and Bill's articles again real soon.

https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2...r-wisconsin-steven-richardson-big-10#comments
Click to expand...

Nice. I really like what one of the comments said, not rebuilding team, but a reloaded one. My thoughts exactly.
 

There is much to be excited about GOpher Football under the new wunderkind.

Tamping down expectations (ala Reusse) is due to looking at the long term instead of winning now at all cost now IMHO.

His first season will be critical in how he frames his vision and execute it. He's got a great coaching team to make things happen that hasn't in eons.
 

hungan1 said:
There is much to be excited about GOpher Football under the new wunderkind.

Tamping down expectations (ala Reusse) is due to looking at the long term instead of winning now at all cost now IMHO.

His first season will be critical in how he frames his vision and execute it. He's got a great coaching team to make things happen that hasn't in eons.
Click to expand...

I don't consider achieving 8 wins winning at all cost now, by any stretch. Fleck needs it to keep the high profile and the recruiting engine running.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Nice. I really like what one of the comments said, not rebuilding team, but a reloaded one. My thoughts exactly.
Click to expand...

Tell us about all these seniors that will get drafted on this loaded team...
 



Is Fleck turning Minnesota into a challenger for Wisconsin? - From the link

The current structuring of the Big 10 is about as balanced as the NBA, save for the fact that in this instance it’s the East that’s loaded while a single team (Wisconsin) is well situated to dominate the West division every single season.

There are three big issues that make this the case. The first is Wisconsin’s own advantages as being the only major football school in a decently-sized and talent-rich state. The other is the fact that Nebraska has been wondering in the wilderness for a while now, unable to find a formula to match the one Tom Osborne used for so many years. At some point it has to be considered that Nebraska’s success was heavily tied to having such a unique and innovative coach and system in place and in having it in place for the better part of modern college football history. Anyways, the Cornhuskers aren’t currently that much of a threat to annual Badger hegemony with Tommy Armstrong Jr gone and the Nebraska defense in turmoil.

The final issue in the Big 10 West is that the other school sitting alone in a big state has failed to make much of their football program. Now that school has P.J. Fleck in charge and it’s time to see what might be possible for the Gophers if they put forth a more concerted effort to marshall their resources. In the meantime, Fleck is inheriting a solid foundation.

Gopher size in the Fleck spread-RPO system

At Western Michigan, Fleck ran a “college-style” offense largely built around outside zone blocking with pass options attached. After getting hired by Minnesota he snatched up OL coach Ed Warriner from Ohio State and has been putting the beef on the Gopher roster to work with more downhill, inside zone blocking.

With returning H-back Nate Wozniak, a 6’10” 275 pound blocker, and a massive collection of OL back the Gophers have some interesting resources on hand for the purpose of nailing down the most essential element of Fleck’s offense, the run game.

In particular they were very good executing the two main iterations of inside zone that can make a spread-I formation team truly formidable, split zone...

The big OL that Minnesota regularly fields are pretty brutal on these double teams as most DL can’t hold their ground against 600-700 pounds pushing against them. The double team on the weak zone play above was the reason for the touchdown, the free safety is down in position to make the stop but the RB presses up and finds a crease off the tremendous displacement the double team gets on the 3-technique...

In the long term?

Perhaps the biggest question is whether Fleck will be able to make the most of his own recruiting chops AND Minnesota’s positioning within a large and largely overlooked state.

So far the 2018 class for Minnesota includes 19 commits, five of which come from within the state of Minnesota itself, and two of which are defensive tackles. The Gophers will be starting over at defensive tackle in 2018 after Richardson moves on and given the essential nature of the position in Smith’s defense that’ll be a key feature to track.

On the coaching side Gophers need to find QBs that bring the missing passing element to their smashmouth run game, or else develop their current QBs in that art, then continue to bring aboard quality DL. So far it seems Fleck is aiming to do exactly that and is mixing his general recruiting chops with the same kind of careful evaluation and locking down of home talent that made Western Michigan a force to be reckoned with. Keep an eye out for the Gophers as a potentially more viable challenger to the Badgers out west than traditional powerhouse Nebraska.

That play is the biggest sign that this “Fleck in Minnesota” thing might really work out quite well. For much of the spring game the Gopher QBs did not show a mastery of the quick hitting pass-options that make this system so deadly. It’s truly an underrated skill to make that read and set the feet in time to deliver an accurate ball within that window, particularly on the glance route.

However, if you can still run the ball on a front that has an extra man sitting in the box then you’re going to be pretty competitive. From there, the next question is whether the passing game can beat man coverage, particularly on passing downs. This was the problem for Western Michigan against Wisconsin and it doesn’t appear that Fleck is on the verge of solving it at Minnesota either:

https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2...r-wisconsin-steven-richardson-big-10#comments
 

"There are three big issues that make this the case. The first is Wisconsin’s own advantages as being the only major football school in a decently-sized and talent-rich state..."

Wisconsin? A talent-rich state? Sure, they produce some good players but they are not even on Ohio's level.
 




John Galt said:
Tell us about all these seniors that will get drafted on this loaded team...
Click to expand...

You can go down that rabbit hole again if you want. I'll take sustained and elevated success (wins) over the number of draft picks or NFL players every time. Whole thread on that topic...plenty of middling, mediocre, and unsuccessful college teams that put players in the NFL.
 

FredCoxRocks said:
"There are three big issues that make this the case. The first is Wisconsin’s own advantages as being the only major football school in a decently-sized and talent-rich state..."

Wisconsin? A talent-rich state? Sure, they produce some good players but they are not even on Ohio's level.
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Struck me as a little odd too. Though much like MN and NE, there are the "only game in their state. Though if you're implying that Ohio's a low level producer of talent that would be wrong. Could only find Pro talent, just gonna assume that there is a strong correlation between that and D-1 talent.

As for Wisconsin, don't want to do anymore research, but last year there were 29 players born in Wisconsin playing in the NFL. Playing from 2000 thru last season there were 86 of them

Minnesota has 21 and 72.

Iowa 13 and 69

Indiana 20 and 99.

Nebraska 14 and 60.

Illinois 44 and 235.

Maryland 33 and 103

Michigan 56 and 237

Ohio has 87 and 371


https://www.pro-football-reference.com/friv/birthplaces.htm
 

I think his point is there are enough Power 5 players to form a core to build around if we can retain the majority of in-staters and hold on to the blue-chippers. Obviously we are not California, Texas, Florida, Ohio. However compared to many more lightly-populated western states we are comparatively rich...depends how one looks at it. It will be an uphill battle no doubt which is where Fleck's elite sales skills come in.
 

PMWinSTP said:
You can go down that rabbit hole again if you want. I'll take sustained and elevated success (wins) over the number of draft picks or NFL players every time. Whole thread on that topic...plenty of middling, mediocre, and unsuccessful college teams that put players in the NFL.
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So no one on the "reloaded" team?

I, along with every person on this board, will take wins over NFL draft picks. But they usually have a strong correlation, kind of like recruiting rankings to wins. And you keep arguing how much talent we have and how high expectations should be for this season. Yet we probably have 1 guy (Richardson) who will be drafted. Why doesn't that sink in for you?
 



John Galt said:
So no one on the "reloaded" team?

I, along with every person on this board, will take wins over NFL draft picks. But they usually have a strong correlation, kind of like recruiting rankings to wins. And you keep arguing how much talent we have and how high expectations should be for this season. Yet we probably have 1 guy (Richardson) who will be drafted. Why doesn't that sink in for you?
Click to expand...

I don't know why you keep saying these types of things. You have no idea who will be drafted. Why don't we let the season play out and then assess the draft status of the sophomores, juniors, and seniors on the team.
 

John Galt said:
So no one on the "reloaded" team?

I, along with every person on this board, will take wins over NFL draft picks. But they usually have a strong correlation, kind of like recruiting rankings to wins. And you keep arguing how much talent we have and how high expectations should be for this season. Yet we probably have 1 guy (Richardson) who will be drafted. Why doesn't that sink in for you?
Click to expand...

Rabbit, meet hole...

Eight wins is high expectations? We have posters OK with 6 wins total over the next two years.
 

John Galt said:
So no one on the "reloaded" team?

I, along with every person on this board, will take wins over NFL draft picks. But they usually have a strong correlation, kind of like recruiting rankings to wins. And you keep arguing how much talent we have and how high expectations should be for this season. Yet we probably have 1 guy (Richardson) who will be drafted. Why doesn't that sink in for you?
Click to expand...

Exactly. And even though Richardson is a really good college player, I still think it's a stretch he gets drafted because he's about 5'10".

And for PE, yes you do have a good idea of who's going to be drafted heading into their SR years. Of the Gopher players who ended up drafted or signed as UDFA from last years team, you knew all of them had a chance before the season started.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I don't know why you keep saying these types of things. You have no idea who will be drafted. Why don't we let the season play out and then assess the draft status of the sophomores, juniors, and seniors on the team.
Click to expand...

I'll keep saying these things as long as other posters keep saying they expect Fleck to build off 9 wins in his 1st year...
 

PMWinSTP said:
Rabbit, meet hole...

Eight wins is high expectations? We have posters OK with 6 wins total over the next two years.
Click to expand...

8 wins is reasonable with the schedule and who we have returning. Why the hell do you keep saying Fleck should build off 9 wins? This implies you expect him to win 10+ games.

And I've seen about 2 posters who are predicting 4-5 wins.
 

John Galt said:
So no one on the "reloaded" team?

I, along with every person on this board, will take wins over NFL draft picks. But they usually have a strong correlation, kind of like recruiting rankings to wins. And you keep arguing how much talent we have and how high expectations should be for this season. Yet we probably have 1 guy (Richardson) who will be drafted. Why doesn't that sink in for you?
Click to expand...

Why do you keep talking about seniors being drafted, as if that's the only benchmark? Are good teams not allowed to have good players from other classes?
 

Urbandale said:
Why do you keep talking about seniors being drafted, as if that's the only benchmark? Are good teams not allowed to have good players from other classes?
Click to expand...

I don't see a lot of 2020 NFL mock drafts. It's pretty early to say which underclassmen may be drafted.
 

John Galt said:
8 wins is reasonable with the schedule and who we have returning. Why the hell do you keep saying Fleck should build off 9 wins? This implies you expect him to win 10+ games.

And I've seen about 2 posters who are predicting 4-5 wins.
Click to expand...

I've posted my expectations so clearly so many times now, GWG and JB make a game of pointing it out, even when I don't post them.

Given the schedules, 8 wins in the regular season this year, 9-10 in 2018, 10+ in 2019. I think there is a chance in 2019 for Gophs to end up in the Rose Bowl, or outside chance to run the table. I've also posted many times that Fleck is not going anywhere soon...unless there is a complete collapse in the next few years, which I can't see happening, at all.

If he gets 10 wins in 2019, the U will back up the Brinks truck and lock him up for many years to come.
 

John Galt said:
8 wins is reasonable with the schedule and who we have returning. Why the hell do you keep saying Fleck should build off 9 wins? This implies you expect him to win 10+ games.

And I've seen about 2 posters who are predicting 4-5 wins.
Click to expand...

About the same number that are saying 10 or more.

Hey, but you succeeded in diverting the attention from a nice piece on the Gophers and a solid endorsement for Mr.Richardson.
 

PMWinSTP said:
I've posted my expectations so clearly so many times now, GWG and JB make a game of pointing it out, even when I don't post them.

Given the schedules, 8 wins in the regular season this year, 9-10 in 2018, 10+ in 2019. I think there is a chance in 2019 for Gophs to end up in the Rose Bowl, or outside chance to run the table. I've also posted many times that Fleck is not going anywhere soon...unless there is a complete collapse in the next few years, which I can't see happening, at all.

If he gets 10 wins in 2019, the U will back up the Brinks truck and lock him up for many years to come.
Click to expand...

You've posted your expectations for this season before?
 


John Galt said:
I don't see a lot of 2020 NFL mock drafts. It's pretty early to say which underclassmen may be drafted.
Click to expand...

I understand, but that's not really the point. Your main criterion for a "loaded" team seems to be how many seniors will be drafted. My query to you asked if a good team might be, perhaps, fueled by classes other than the senior class. If that's the case, then how many senior being drafted becomes much less important.
 

PMWinSTP said:
I've posted my expectations so clearly so many times now, GWG and JB make a game of pointing it out, even when I don't post them.

Given the schedules, 8 wins in the regular season this year, 9-10 in 2018, 10+ in 2019. I think there is a chance in 2019 for Gophs to end up in the Rose Bowl, or outside chance to run the table. I've also posted many times that Fleck is not going anywhere soon...unless there is a complete collapse in the next few years, which I can't see happening, at all.

If he gets 10 wins in 2019, the U will back up the Brinks truck and lock him up for many years to come.
Click to expand...

So in Fleck's first 3 seasons, you expect him to have the greatest 3 year run in the last 50 years.

Thanks for your honesty.
 

PMWinSTP said:
I've posted my expectations so clearly so many times now, GWG and JB make a game of pointing it out, even when I don't post them.

Given the schedules, 8 wins in the regular season this year, 9-10 in 2018, 10+ in 2019. I think there is a chance in 2019 for Gophs to end up in the Rose Bowl, or outside chance to run the table. I've also posted many times that Fleck is not going anywhere soon...unless there is a complete collapse in the next few years, which I can't see happening, at all.

If he gets 10 wins in 2019, the U will back up the Brinks truck and lock him up for many years to come.
Click to expand...

It's not a game when it's posted every day.

What's a funny game is your posting history. You created several threads stating that the Gophers needed to hire Kevin Sumiln and how no one wanted PJ (especially you) because good coaches don't only win 1 game in their 1st year.

Now you think he's going to win 9-10 in year two and want to back up the Brinks truck. Suddenly you have all these high expectations and say PJ is the best coach ever. All on top of your repeated insistence that Kaler and Coyle were going to be fired this summer.

And yet you expect people to take you seriously.
 

John Galt said:
So in Fleck's first 3 seasons, you expect him to have the greatest 3 year run in the last 50 years.

Thanks for your honesty.
Click to expand...

I said they are clear expectations. Coyle did not spend close to $20M more over the next 5 years to go get what national sports media covered as the hottest non-P5 HC and program, only to have the Gophs bump along at the current win totals. Go back and watch his presser.

Gophs have won 23 games in the last three years, so expecting Fleck's teams to win 4 more than that in the next three is asking too much?
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
It's not a game when it's posted every day.

What's a funny game is your posting history. You created several threads stating that the Gophers needed to hire Kevin Sumiln and how no one wanted PJ (especially you) because good coaches don't only win 1 game in their 1st year.

Now you think he's going to win 9-10 in year two and want to back up the Brinks truck. Suddenly you have all these high expectations and say PJ is the best coach ever. All on top of your repeated insistence that Kaler and Coyle were going to be fired this summer.

And yet you expect people to take you seriously.
Click to expand...

dog whistle...
 


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