Reusse: After endless bravado, Fleck is like the rest of 'em, lowering expectations

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If you toot your own horn all day you're Brewster.

If you say anything that isn't tooting your own horn all day you're lowering expectations.
 

IDK I wouldn't put Claeys in the Brewster camp. Think he predicted ten wins last year, wound up with nine. No reason a better coach with a lot of returning talent and a pretty manageable schedule needs lower expectations
 

I read SONs Huddle summary and certainly Fleck is pushing expectations back to 2019 by stating we're just going to be too young. He may be right about 2018 and 2019, but he has a lot of talent this year. I expect a 9 win season this year. It disappoints me that Fleck is not expecting elite for this fall.
 

Funny thing about this thread and the article.
Now we argue over details when the media reports good news.
 


bemidjigopher said:
IDK I wouldn't put Claeys in the Brewster camp. Think he predicted ten wins last year, wound up with nine. No reason a better coach with a lot of returning talent and a pretty manageable schedule needs lower expectations
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He actually predicted 8-10 wins.
 

Fleck would not be the first coach to try and lower expectations going into a season. Holtz was great for playing up opponents, so that every victory seemed like a great accomplishment.

Look, maybe some of us are wrong, and the returning talent is not that good, or it's not suited to Fleck's system. (even though Fleck has said differently at times).

Maybe changing coaches and systems is too big an obstacle to overcome. Maybe the lack of depth at key positions is too big of a hurdle.

It's just a depressing thought that the Gophs could be heading back to another 2 or 3 years of losing seasons - or at the least, struggling to be bowl-eligible. It felt nice to win 8 games (or more) in 3 of the last four season. It was nice to go into a game thinking the Gophers had a chance to win - as opposed to thinking they would be lucky to win.

I guess it's just too much to ask - to be a Gopher fan, and expect to have a good season. At least until the coach tells us we're ready to have a good season. Maybe I should just say the heck with it, and start rooting for the new soccer team. How are they doing? Oh, they're losing too. They'll fit right in in MN.
 


Yipee...Fatprick wins again.

He trolls us, and posters here lap it up.
 



It still amazes me that people think this program is at a place to have "expectations". The Gophers went 5-4 in the B1G last year with the easiest schedule they have had in my lifetime: 4 of their 5 conference wins came against teams with first year head coaches and staffs (Maryland, Rutgers, Illinois) or an interim head coach (Purdue). Unless I missed a game, the 5 teams the Gophers beat in the B1G only won games against each other and 1-8 Michigan State. They lost to both of their rivals.....AGAIN and much of the previous staff ended their careers at 2-4 against Iowa and 0-6 against Wisconsin. The best win of the last 6 years occurred against a Nebraska team ranked in the 20's.

I want to see this program do well, but I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe it is/was close to breaking through and there's a reason for higher expectations. The Oregon State game is a perfect example, It seems like a lot of people are expecting to win that game. The Gophers were trailing going in the 4th quarter at home against Oregon State last year in the first game of the season. The Gophers got two huge forced fumbles from Devers in that game to set up their first two touchdowns. Now the Gophers will be on the road, and they will be the one starting the inexperienced QB (OSU gave a transfer QB his first start at Minnesota). I wouldn't have felt confident about this game if Claeys was retained. As we reach the B1G season, PJ will be the first year coach with the new staff and its probably a good idea to lower expectations. I still can't believe people listened to Brewster and thought he was talking about going to the Rose Bowl immediately. Anyone who followed the program new that he wasn't inheriting much talent and Claeys/Kill certainly seem to have left more than Mason, but the similarities in lack of experience/depth/quality at the QB/OL/WR positions is very similar (much better shape on defense obviously).
 

EG#9 said:
It still amazes me that people think this program is at a place to have "expectations". The Gophers went 5-4 in the B1G last year with the easiest schedule they have had in my lifetime: 4 of their 5 conference wins came against teams with first year head coaches and staffs (Maryland, Rutgers, Illinois) or an interim head coach (Purdue). Unless I missed a game, the 5 teams the Gophers beat in the B1G only won games against each other and 1-8 Michigan State. They lost to both of their rivals.....AGAIN and much of the previous staff ended their careers at 2-4 against Iowa and 0-6 against Wisconsin. The best win of the last 6 years occurred against a Nebraska team ranked in the 20's.

I want to see this program do well, but I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe it is/was close to breaking through and there's a reason for higher expectations. The Oregon State game is a perfect example, It seems like a lot of people are expecting to win that game. The Gophers were trailing going in the 4th quarter at home against Oregon State last year in the first game of the season. The Gophers got two huge forced fumbles from Devers in that game to set up their first two touchdowns. Now the Gophers will be on the road, and they will be the one starting the inexperienced QB (OSU gave a transfer QB his first start at Minnesota). I wouldn't have felt confident about this game if Claeys was retained. As we reach the B1G season, PJ will be the first year coach with the new staff and its probably a good idea to lower expectations. I still can't believe people listened to Brewster and thought he was talking about going to the Rose Bowl immediately. Anyone who followed the program new that he wasn't inheriting much talent and Claeys/Kill certainly seem to have left more than Mason, but the similarities in lack of experience/depth/quality at the QB/OL/WR positions is very similar (much better shape on defense obviously).
Click to expand...
MN was up at the half in 3 of the 4 losses. Leidner INTs cost them in the game against PSU and WI. If MN won either of those games, the outcome of that season looks a whole lot different.

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jonnyganas said:
MN was up at the half in 3 of the 4 losses. Leidner INTs cost them in the game against PSU and WI. If MN won either of those games, the outcome of that season looks a whole lot different.

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*Losses
 

EG#9 said:
It still amazes me that people think this program is at a place to have "expectations". The Gophers went 5-4 in the B1G last year with the easiest schedule they have had in my lifetime: 4 of their 5 conference wins came against teams with first year head coaches and staffs (Maryland, Rutgers, Illinois) or an interim head coach (Purdue). Unless I missed a game, the 5 teams the Gophers beat in the B1G only won games against each other and 1-8 Michigan State. They lost to both of their rivals.....AGAIN and much of the previous staff ended their careers at 2-4 against Iowa and 0-6 against Wisconsin. The best win of the last 6 years occurred against a Nebraska team ranked in the 20's.
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Thanks, EG. The first paragraph of your post really puts Claeys' 9-win season in perspective. It needs to be broken down and repeated over and over again for the many GopherHolers who believe the 9 wins was such a great accomplishment and a realistic indication of how well the Gophers are going to do in Fleck's first year.

So here goes:

- The Gophers went 5-4 in the B1G last year with the easiest schedule they have had in my lifetime.

- 4 of their 5 conference wins came against teams with first year head coaches and staffs (Maryland, Rutgers, Illinois) or an interim head coach (Purdue).

- The 5 teams the Gophers beat in the B1G only won games against each other and 1-8 Michigan State.

- They lost to both of their rivals.....AGAIN and much of the previous staff ended their careers at 2-4 against Iowa and 0-6 against Wisconsin.

- The best win of the last 6 years occurred against a Nebraska team ranked in the 20's.
 



EG#9 said:
It still amazes me that people think this program is at a place to have "expectations". The Gophers went 5-4 in the B1G last year with the easiest schedule they have had in my lifetime:
Click to expand...

Considering this year's schedule appears, at this time at least, to be every bit as easy as last year's schedule, why aren't we allowed to have expectations for 2017?


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Why does every win have an asterisk?
Rutgers? Not a big enough win.
Oregon State...sack turnovers.
Maryland...regular QB out
Etc.
It goes both ways...you could be Wisky and say that the Gophers were crushing them and then Mitch fell apart leading to their W. Iowa was a 1-2 play game in the land of if's, what's, and buts.
I think it was Urban Meyer that said most games come down to a handful of plays that lead to a W or L. He's right. Let's just take it for what it is and enjoy them.
 

NotAFanOfBecky said:
It goes both ways...you could be Wisky and say that the Gophers were crushing them and then Mitch fell apart leading to their W. Iowa was a 1-2 play game in the land of if's, what's, and buts.
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I doubt many Wisc fans would take someone who said that seriously...
 

jonnyganas said:
MN was up at the half in 3 of the 4 losses. Leidner INTs cost them in the game against PSU and WI. If MN won either of those games, the outcome of that season looks a whole lot different.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Gophs were also driving on NEB late in the 4th when ML threw another untimely (are they ever timely?) INT.
 

EG#9 said:
As we reach the B1G season, PJ will be the first year coach with the new staff and its probably a good idea to lower expectations.
Click to expand...

True in general. Seems like most of the time first year coaches do not have good seasons. The Gophers situation is a bit different than most in that the Fleck is inheriting a team that finished 9-4 the prior season but the current Nebraska coach also inherited a team that won nine games the prior season and his first team won only 5 regular season games.

I'm not expecting too much but I hope they can win at least 6 or 7 regular season games.
 

I swear I've seen this same thread at least five times a week for the last seven months.
 


Spoofin said:
Considering this year's schedule appears, at this time at least, to be every bit as easy as last year's schedule, why aren't we allowed to have expectations for 2017?


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Click to expand...

Pj needs to win at least 8 this season.
 

NotAFanOfBecky said:
Why does every win have an asterisk?
Rutgers? Not a big enough win.
Oregon State...sack turnovers.
Maryland...regular QB out
Etc.
It goes both ways...you could be Wisky and say that the Gophers were crushing them and then Mitch fell apart leading to their W. Iowa was a 1-2 play game in the land of if's, what's, and buts.
I think it was Urban Meyer that said most games come down to a handful of plays that lead to a W or L. He's right. Let's just take it for what it is and enjoy them.
Click to expand...

Easy answer. If you give them too much (any) credit last year, and/or expect too much (anything) this year - the only rational conclusion is that you want them to fail.


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cjbfbp said:
True in general. Seems like most of the time first year coaches do not have good seasons. The Gophers situation is a bit different than most in that the Fleck is inheriting a team that finished 9-4 the prior season but the current Nebraska coach also inherited a team that won nine games the prior season and his first team won only 5 regular season games.

I'm not expecting too much but I hope they can win at least 6 or 7 regular season games.
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Riley's Nebraska transition is an interesting comparison.
 

How many of these "almost won" games are we going to blame on Mitch throwing an interception and not on the fact this year's start (Rhoda or Croft) weren't good enough to become the starter instead of Leidner?

Would it have been better if we lost those games with Leidner throwing the interception early in the game instead of late with the same final score?
 

El Amin Fan said:
what we were going to do if we don't win 8.
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BarnBurner said:
Or nothing.

Relatively favorable schedule, returning rb's that are excellent, etc.

Be Elite. Win.
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I don't disagree with you. I just wanted to know what we were going to do if we don't win 8.
 

We trailed vs Oregon State in no small part due to some unlikely circumstances:

- our center's efforts to hit the scorebard with his snaps on several occasions (stopping drives and leading to a safety)
- a muffed punt and recovery by OSU
- three targeting calls thinning out the defense
- unforced errors

I'd like to think at least a few of those things won't happen again. I'm also not devastated we're starting a new QB this year. Our schedule is nearly as soft as last year and learned pundits are putting expected wins around 7-8 based on our situation and our opponents.
 

Face The Facts said:
How many of these "almost won" games are we going to blame on Mitch throwing an interception and not on the fact this year's start (Rhoda or Croft) weren't good enough to become the starter instead of Leidner?

Would it have been better if we lost those games with Leidner throwing the interception early in the game instead of late with the same final score?
Click to expand...


How many times does it need to be said that the starter depends on the scheme and the coach? Claeys let Rhoda go, Fleck reeled Rhoda in and he may be a starter. Claeys was going to start Green this year, under Fleck he's third string at best. Claeys curiously took unimpressive JUCO QB instead of a much more productive player in Jordan Ta'amu (presumedly based on size /athleticism).

Claeys was great at defense, but they had a peculiar ideal for their QB position IMO, right or wrong. A new coach brings a different philosophy.
 

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