Reusse: After endless bravado, Fleck is like the rest of 'em, lowering expectations

Fleck has repeatedly talked about the Rose Bowl as a goal. And being a top team in the country. When did Jerry or Tracy ever set expectations that high? They never muttered the word Rose Bowl in 6 years...

Maybe, just maybe, it's possible that 6-8 wins is realistic in year 1 given the decimation at CB, thin OL, largely unproven and untested DE's, new starting QB, and the loss of our top WR by a landslide....

You forgot budding superstars at RB, experienced dominant DT with others that are quite good, LB's who are proven and good, an excellent kicker, punter and long snapper, promising WR's and a coach who is a WR Whisperer, a couple of up and coming solid safeties.
Wouldn't call 7 of the top 10 OL returning to be a thin OL.
AND Every team on our schedule goes into the season with some question marks at key positions just like the Gophers.
 

In the end, if an amalgam of QBs that couldn't beat out Leidner in the old system can lead us to a similar season in 2017 that we experienced in 2016 it will be a huge indictment of our previous coaching staff.

Players never improve (sometimes dramatically) from year to year. That never happens.
 


Alright the Gophers will win the Rose Bowl this year, happy? Can you guys stop having the same debate in every thread?
 

It will be disappointing if this team get's less than 8-9 wins because we have Rodney Smith or Shannon Brooks running and catching the football. With two awfully talented backs like that you get them the football in space, and let your playmakers make plays. Those two guys can make plays with the football, to me you have to maximize the amount of touches those two guys are getting this season and control the clock.
I could see Rhoda ending up being the starter at QB because he has the most experience and he seems to value the football the most, meaning not forcing things and not turning the ball over. Right now Rhoda may also be the best passing QB we have on this team at this stage of his career. I would like to see the program get to the point where we are starting Juniors and Seniors every year at QB.

To me it would not be the end of the world if Rhoda started this season as the QB, he seems to have the most accurate arm right now. Accuracy matters in conference play, and getting the ball to people in the right spots matters. Will it be easy for this transition no, not with new coaches, but once you let the talent take over we should see a few more wins than losses when it all shakes out. Having some of the tougher opponents at home doesn't hurt either. I would like to see them get to the level of winning as many games as last year, not sure if that is realistic with the new coaching staff, but it would be a nice step in the programs direction to keep winning more or the same number of games.
 


I wouldn't read anything into the garbage that Reusse pens. The Gophers could win a national title & he'd still be outside The Bank on Saturdays, tackling people & telling them to spend money on Vikings tickets instead. He's a shameless, no integrity, shill. We all know that.

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Hey, you guys! Come in off the ledge or you'll miss the kick off.

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I wouldn't read anything into the garbage that Reusse pens. The Gophers could win a national title & he'd still be outside The Bank on Saturdays, tackling people & telling them to spend money on Vikings tickets instead. He's a shameless, no integrity, shill. We all know that.

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I know Reusse rubs some people the wrong way - but calling him a shill for the Vikings could not be more wrong. I've been reading Reusse's stuff for over 40 years. I don't agree with everything he writes, but the guy has talent.

Reusse is pretty easy to understand: he doesn't like fat cats or stuffed shirts (that's why he rips the Wilfs every chance he gets). He doesn't like people who he sees as phony. (and sorry, Fleck fans - but Reusse thinks Fleck is phony). But beyond all of that, Reusse is an agitator. His whole shtick, which he admits he gets from his father, is to see if he can push people's buttons - take the opposite point of view, take the unpopular point of view, and all designed to get a reaction.

The irony here is this: when people get mad at Reusse, they are giving him exactly what he wants - a reaction. When you get mad, he wins.

Oh, and BTW, Reusse has been nominated for the Writer's award for the Baseball Hall of Fame. Hacks and shills don't get nominated for the Hall of Fame.
 


Haven't you heard? This only applies to the Gophs...not any team they play.

Right. Cruze just said today that our '17 schedule is significantly harder as every team we beat now has more experienced and improved players. I'm worried we will never catch up at this rate.


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You forgot budding superstars at RB, experienced dominant DT with others that are quite good, LB's who are proven and good, an excellent kicker, punter and long snapper, promising WR's and a coach who is a WR Whisperer, a couple of up and coming solid safeties.
Wouldn't call 7 of the top 10 OL returning to be a thin OL.
AND Every team on our schedule goes into the season with some question marks at key positions just like the Gophers.

Punter and long snapper....LOL
 

Punter and long snapper....LOL

Earlier poster in this same thread talked about this:

"And if we miss an end of game FG we lose to Rutgers. And if..."

Guess all their guys on the FG team could be important huh? :eek:
 

Not sure I can argue with it.

They're returning a ton of guys from a very good team that underachieved. Apparently, QB play couldn't get any worse (from what we were told at the time).

People pointed as those for reasons that Claeys was fired. So, how it possible that a "better" coach is expected to win 4-5 games?

Fleck should have this team bowl eligible, at minimum, or it's considered unsuccessful. Personally, I think they win 7-8 games
 





Punter and long snapper....LOL

Wisconsin vs Gophers 2003 and 2005 show the importance of all three positions and we have 3 pretty good ones.



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Going to overtime against top 10 team, East Division champ Penn State in Happy Valley gave me reason to believe the team was close to breaking through.

Tied with top ten team, West Division Champ Wisconsin in Camp Randall with under 7 minutes to go gave me reason to believe the team was close to breaking through.

Taking top 30 Nebraska down to the wire in Lincoln left me feeling we were close to breaking through.

Playing top 30 Iowa basically straight up left me feeling we were close.

Beating Michigan in Ann Arbor in 2014 and having them beat in 2015 at TCF gave me reason to believe we are close to breaking through.

Absolutely embarrassing Mike Leach's top ranked passing game playing a lot of back-ups gives me reason to believe we are close to breaking through.

Hiring the best offensive line coach in college football, giving him four returning starters and 7 of top 10 from the oline two deep and adding two very good redshirt frosh and a juco and three great frosh recruits gives me reason to feel we are close to breaking through.

Hiring Fleck and Simon, proven great WR coaches who have put lowly ranked WRs in NFL from WMU, and hearing them talk glowingly about Still and Tyler and seeing Holland nektoning and seeing all the the great WR redshirts, walk-ons and recruits gives me reason to have expectations.

Hiring Ciarrocca, a proven QB coach who has put multiple guys in NFL and who runs an offense that actually embraces the passing game gives me reason to have expectations. Watching Croft in Spring ball show a better arm and better legs than Leidner leads me to believe we are close. Knowing they got their hand[picked recruit in early enroll last January helps. Convincing guy who who took all the number two snaps and a bunch of the number ones to stay was great move. Having a four star QB recruit taking off his redshirt is nice.

Returning every single one of a great stable of tight ends gives me expectations. Hiring Callahan, offensive line coach of the year in 2016, gives me expectations. Hearing Lingen looks great gives me expectations. Hearing Beebe is healthy, Hearing Paulson looks great gives me expectations.

Hearing Fleck say in Spring that the new rb coach already was improving the returning RBs games gives me expectations.

Knowing the S and C guy was offered by Notre Dame and seeing double digit % strength and agility and speed improvements across the board reported gives me expectations. New S and C guy has program that will reduce injuries so that is a reason for expectations.

That no media member in town can come up with 15 let alone 22 actual names of guys who missed Spring ball makes me think PJ is overplaying injury issues.

Returning pre-season All Big Ten DT Steve Richardson to anchor the defense up front along with big and experienced seniors Stelter and Merrick and fourth year guy Moore (nice weight room performances recently highlighted) and bringing in a juco All American in Silver gives me expectations and reason to believe we are close.

Watching the athleticism and physicality of Poock, Celestin, Cashman, Martin, Barber, Coughlin, Devers, DeLattiboudere, Waters, Huff gives me expectations. Love we were beating Power 5 schools for dline recruits.

Seeing that Paup was sending lowly ranked talent from Northern Iowa into NFL gives me expectations.

Knowing that Sawvel recruited lowly ranked db talent that ended up to be NFL talent gives me expectations for Winfield, Shenault, Durr, Kiondre, Craighton. Knowing we hired a db coach away from the SEC and that he landed 3-4 DBs with Power 5 offers gives me expectations. Hearing Fleck wish he had a team of Jacob Huff's and knowing that McGhee and Kunle bring lot of experience to back end gives me expectations.

Seeing how good the buy-in has been (improving an already good GPA/APR, working asses off for new S and C guy, great team bonding reported, no apparent character/legal issues, great community service reported) gives me expectations.

Knowing the new def coord had top ten defenses at three different stops and had All NFL and All Americans at multiple stops gives me expectations.

Knowing Fleck is an elite motivator and sideline coach makes me think he could help us break through and turn close losses into wins.

Returning a very solid kicker and punter (plus long snapper and depth at P and K) and hiring a dedicated special teams coach gives me expectations.

Getting WI and NE at home and seeing how much talent they lost gives me expectations.
Seeing NE just lose best db to injury and three of their star recruits non-qualify and one of their coaches die and another get arrested and Riley pinning his hopes on a guy who didn't impress at Tulane gives me expectations.
Seeing MSU go 3-9 and imploding in off season gives me expectations.
Seeing Michigan lose 18 NFL talent level guys gives me expectations.
Watching how we manhandled Northwestern in 2016 and seeing what they lost to NFL gives me expectations.
Seeing Lovie implode gives me expectations.
Seeing Buffalo ranked as one of worst teams in NCAA gives me expectations.
Seeing Beavers as Vegas's second least likely Pac Champ makes me think we are close.
All new staff and terrible Purdue team gives me expectations.
Watching us dominate Maryland in 2016 with Rhoda at helm gives me expectations.
Seeing how MTSU was ranked defensively and specifically against the run excites me.
Knowing Iowa may have no returning WR catches and has no defined QB and lost best db to injury in Spring ball gives me reason to think we are close.

Great expectations Knowing that Fleck:
will embrace students better
has much of the media on his side
is planning a great game day experience
has five Big Ten games at home
already has some great start times lined up and is a proven appealing GameDay guy
has a soft schedule to break in with
has an AD and president who fully have his back and will give him all he needs to succeed
has multi-year contract in place so no distractions on that front
already has a ton of recruits committed so has more time to focus on coaching
young healthy guy so likely won't have issues giving full energy for full season
has a state of the art facility ready to go probably for Big Ten Championship practice
has a new character building program that will prevent a repeat of last year's debacle of missing seven guys some weeks
has a new discipline culture that will prevent the dumb late hits and unforced penalties
may get sideline bench situation improved
is designing less stressfull practices
is practicing at a more productive time
has a wife and kids that will make for a great addition to culture
has great record with ball control/turnovers
already has got fans enthused about row the boat and is hanging up paddles at TCF
has benefit of the slugs in Ath Dept exposed and appearently weeded out
new Regents are more football friendly
fans got relief from planned ticket price donation hike
Pitino had good year; enthusiasm spills over especially in student ticket buying due to linked packages
U has money to spend with new TV money and can support gameday operations better with that and very nice soccer revenue coming in after very nice Vikings revenue bump
lot of great new investment in Stadium Village area especially around TCF will enhance gameday experience

8 regular schedule wins three of last four in regular season
5 big ten wins two of last three seasons
beat Purdue four in a row
beat Illini 5 of 6
beat Fitz 3 of 4
beat NE 2 of 4
beat Iowa 3 of 6
record vs non-con opponents is 16-2 since 2012...only non-con losses to 12-1 TCU and 11-2 TCU (the 2015 loss by 6 points gave me expectations we could compete with anybody; well played games, but losses, on road to 12-0 Iowa and top 5 Ohio State in 2015 affirmed that expectation)
two straight bowl wins

This team is so close to breaking through. Coyle expects they can break through. Why he spent big money on buyout and new staff. Fleck knows team is in good situation and has great expectations. Why he turned down other great Power 5 offers and more money from WMU to come here.

** Full disclosure - I'm a Madison grad/Badger fan ** Feel free to rip away, but I think this needs to be said so more informed posts can commence.

I've seen the highlighted point on GopherHole quite a bit in the offseason. This notion that somehow Wisconsin lost so much talent and therefore will be an easier test this season as opposed to last is just flat-out wrong. I think WI brings back more talent than 90% of the NCAA, hence why WI is ranked around 11-12 in most preseason polls.

QB - Young, but more experienced than anyone on the Gophers', Iowa's or Nebraska's roster. Truthfully WI lacks depth here, so if you're a Gopher fan an injury there would be fortuitous.
RB - If you're seriously citing the loss of Clement and Ogunbowale as a reason to be hopeful for a downturn in production; I have a three-headed monster to introduce you to in Braderick Shaw (one cut and gone), Taiwan Deal (short-yardage back) and transfer Chris James (versatile in open space, great hands)
OLB - Yeah, if you lose two guys to the NFL there are question marks. The two deep here is not "elite", but it's solid.
FS - Musso is replaced by a senior vet who is taller, faster, stronger and has better ball skills in Natrell Jamerson.
CB - WI brings back a starter in Tindal, a heavy rotation guy in senior Figaro and a transfer in Nick Nelson who is rumored to be better than Shelton. This position might even be an upgrade from last season.
LT - RS SO and former RT David Edwards will fill in here and build on a great freshman season, though yes -- it will most likely be a downgrade from Ramcyzk.

All other positions are deep, experienced and really beyond much question.

Now I know I'll get some hate for this post and most likely a lot of, "we don't care" -- But I thought it was worth mentioning somewhere. WI did not lose as much talent as is popularly thought on this board (or if it did, it brings back just as much.)

Best of luck with the Fleck shenanigans y'all.
 

Always great to find a Badger breakdown on here.


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Not sure I can argue with it.

They're returning a ton of guys from a very good team that underachieved. Apparently, QB play couldn't get any worse (from what we were told at the time).

People pointed as those for reasons that Claeys was fired. So, how it possible that a "better" coach is expected to win 4-5 games?

Fleck should have this team bowl eligible, at minimum, or it's considered unsuccessful. Personally, I think they win 7-8 games

Well, there's several here who think 6 wins over the next two years is about right for expectations.
 



Right. Cruze just said today that our '17 schedule is significantly harder as every team we beat now has more experienced and improved players. I'm worried we will never catch up at this rate.


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Wait I thought only we got better each year....
 

You forgot budding superstars at RB, experienced dominant DT with others that are quite good, LB's who are proven and good, an excellent kicker, punter and long snapper, promising WR's and a coach who is a WR Whisperer, a couple of up and coming solid safeties.
Wouldn't call 7 of the top 10 OL returning to be a thin OL.
AND Every team on our schedule goes into the season with some question marks at key positions just like the Gophers.

I love our RBs and they are the strength of the team. But they aren't Barber and Maroney. In fact, they are the type of backs that our neighbor to the east has year in and year out. The fact that we think they are as good as we do shows that we still have a ways to go.

Richardson is a beast, no question. Stelter and Jackson are solid as well. The LB's are proven and a really good unit.

I'm not sure how the WRs are promising other than the fact that they almost have to improve from where they were last year. When the top returning WR had 18 catches, it's clear that you aren't returning much. We have lots of receivers but little in terms of established production.

Our starting QB will either be a 5th year former walk-on with 1 career start, or a redshirt sophomore who has career stats of 7-17 for 34 yards. Not exactly awe inspiring.

As for the O-line, we lost our top two lineman in Moore and Pirsig. Of the 7 returning players in the 2-deep, 3 are JUCOs who have been on campus for about a year. That's not quite the same as having guys who are redshirt juniors and seniors who have been in the program for several years. In fact, if you look at this projected depth chart, 3 of our starters will be JUCOs along with a redshirt freshman. The only upperclassmen in the 2 deeps who will have been here for at least 2 years is Jared Weyler. The last staff failed miserably at offensive line development and it likely won't be a strong suit for us this year.

http://www.ourlads.com/ncaa-football-depth-charts/depth-chart/minnesota/91188
 

Wisconsin vs Gophers 2003 and 2005 show the importance of all three positions and we have 3 pretty good ones.



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I would have predicted 6 wins. Now that I know the punter and long snapper are returning, I'll go with 9...
 

Players never improve (sometimes dramatically) from year to year. That never happens.

Of course they can improve. But expecting it to happen and insisting that they will be better than Mitch while demanding 9+ wins is foolish..
 

Always great to find a Badger breakdown on here.


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Spoof 1200+ posts by an opposing team fan....wait a hated border rival (although one sided for wayyyyyyyy too long) is quite impressive (insert Darth Vader meme) There are Gopher fans on here that have been posters for longer than him that have half that! Wow!
 

We trailed vs Oregon State in no small part due to some unlikely circumstances:

- our center's efforts to hit the scorebard with his snaps on several occasions (stopping drives and leading to a safety)
- a muffed punt and recovery by OSU
- three targeting calls thinning out the defense
- unforced errors

I'd like to think at least a few of those things won't happen again. I'm also not devastated we're starting a new QB this year. Our schedule is nearly as soft as last year and learned pundits are putting expected wins around 7-8 based on our situation and our opponents.

Oregon State will have the advantage of home field and QB experience this year however.
 

I was simply pointing out that game was a close to a comedy of errors as we've come to see. It was gross for long stretches. All it was missing was a punter mishandling the ball and the Beavers running it in for a TD.

And, OSU isn't in great shape at the QB position either. OSU played a carousel of QBs last year. Garretson was hurt most of the year. From Bill C: "OSU ranked 128th in passing success rate and 112th in Passing S&P+"

They brought in a JUCO competing with Garretson, McMaryion, and Mason Moran, a RS freshman. None of them had great success last year.

None of us knows what will happen. It will likely be a good, close game. I happen to think our defense will keep us in this game. I also think we will be looking for the screen on 3rd and long...just saying.
 

** Full disclosure - I'm a Madison grad/Badger fan ** Feel free to rip away, but I think this needs to be said so more informed posts can commence.

I've seen the highlighted point on GopherHole quite a bit in the offseason. This notion that somehow Wisconsin lost so much talent and therefore will be an easier test this season as opposed to last is just flat-out wrong. I think WI brings back more talent than 90% of the NCAA, hence why WI is ranked around 11-12 in most preseason polls.

QB - Young, but more experienced than anyone on the Gophers', Iowa's or Nebraska's roster. Truthfully WI lacks depth here, so if you're a Gopher fan an injury there would be fortuitous.
RB - If you're seriously citing the loss of Clement and Ogunbowale as a reason to be hopeful for a downturn in production; I have a three-headed monster to introduce you to in Braderick Shaw (one cut and gone), Taiwan Deal (short-yardage back) and transfer Chris James (versatile in open space, great hands)
OLB - Yeah, if you lose two guys to the NFL there are question marks. The two deep here is not "elite", but it's solid.
FS - Musso is replaced by a senior vet who is taller, faster, stronger and has better ball skills in Natrell Jamerson.
CB - WI brings back a starter in Tindal, a heavy rotation guy in senior Figaro and a transfer in Nick Nelson who is rumored to be better than Shelton. This position might even be an upgrade from last season.
LT - RS SO and former RT David Edwards will fill in here and build on a great freshman season, though yes -- it will most likely be a downgrade from Ramcyzk.

All other positions are deep, experienced and really beyond much question.

Now I know I'll get some hate for this post and most likely a lot of, "we don't care" -- But I thought it was worth mentioning somewhere. WI did not lose as much talent as is popularly thought on this board (or if it did, it brings back just as much.)

Best of luck with the Fleck shenanigans y'all.

You needed to say all that as a reaction to this? "Getting WI and NE at home and seeing how much talent they lost gives me expectations.":confused:

It was a long answer to one very short point of an apparently heartfelt post. One with dozens of bullet points.

First, most preseason predictions acknowledge the losses, but have them ranked quite high anyway. That a fan of another team wouldn't just say "Maybe we shouldn't show-up to play them. There's really no point in it" should be easily overlooked.

Second, for a fan/grad of a fine school with a very good history of football success going back to 1993, you appear to be quite knowledgeable yourself.

Third, that overkill of a response seems incredibly thin-skinned.

Enjoy your day.
 

Wisconsin vs Gophers 2003 and 2005 show the importance of all three positions and we have 3 pretty good ones.



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Exactly. It is halt however.
 




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