GH Podcast: How P.J. Fleck is recruiting differently than Tracy Claeys (ep. 25)


Great job again....."not a stretch to to think they can win 10 games this year".....love it.
Well worth the listen.
 

Great job again....."not a stretch to to think they can win 10 games this year".....love it.
Well worth the listen.

So he wants Fleck to fail as well?
We have found another of the 4-5.


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Thanks for listening! The first seven games are all winnable and the overall record will be determined by the final five games (the toughest stretch). I think they will exceed expectations, but it probably will take 1-2 years to reach consistent contention. However, Fleck's ambition, coaching staff, and expertise leave me really wondering what they can do right away.

Great job again....."not a stretch to to think they can win 10 games this year".....love it.
Well worth the listen.
 

Not at all! Listen to the podcast and you'll see how excited I am to watch Fleck coach this team. This guy can lead and will bring results because of the people he surrounds himself with and his high level of recruiting, coaching, and player development. I don't think people truly understand the change that will take place here. It will take 1-2 years to get over the next hump as Fleck implements everything. Once he does, he'll reach his vision consistently (Big Ten Championships, etc.).. I wouldn't be shocked if this team was extremely surprising this year, but there are many moving pieces we must evaluate first. We have to be realistic right now until we watch it all unfold. In 2 years, Fleck will have his complete crop of players, along with his culture installed. One thing is certain: the Gophers won't lose games in the second half and will be more disciplined in every facet of the game. This could lead to them winning games they competed in last year, but couldn't hold a lead. This team will do the little things right to succeed and who knows what that will do for them in the short-term. However, the outlook is brighter than it's ever been. People forget this team went through a coaching change, but won 9 games. Fleck's culture and level of coaching might be enough to take them over the top. The Gophers lost four games last year and led at the half in three. More talent was added, the offense should be improved, and the coaching will develop players every single year. More importantly, this squad won't get outcoached in crunch time.

So he wants Fleck to fail as well?
We have found another of the 4-5.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 


Not at all! Listen to the podcast and you'll see how excited I am to watch Fleck coach this team. This guy can lead and will bring results because of the people he surrounds himself with and his high level of recruiting, coaching, and player development. I don't think people truly understand the change that will take place here. It will take 1-2 years to get over the next hump as Fleck implements everything. Once he does, he'll reach his vision consistently (Big Ten Championships, etc.).. I wouldn't be surprised if this team was extremely surprising this year, but there are many moving pieces we must evaluate first. We have to be realistic right now until we watch it all unfold. In 2 years, Fleck will have his complete crop of players, along with his culture installed. One thing is certain: the Gophers won't lose games in the second half and will be more disciplined in every facet of the game. This could lead to them winning games they competed in last year, but couldn't hold a lead. This team will do the little things right to succeed and who knows what that will do for them in the short-term. However, the outlook is brighter than it's ever been. People forget this team went through a coaching change, but won 9 games. Fleck's culture and level of coaching might be enough to take them over the top. The Gophers lost four games last year and led at the half in three. More talent was added, the offense should be improved, and the coaching will develop players every single year. More importantly, this squad won't get outcoached in crunch time.

Thanks Daniel. I appreciate your content. I was making a joke in that a couple of the biggest PJF supporters on this site claim that anyone thinking we could or should win 8+ games this year just want PJF to fail. No disrespect intended toward you.

FTR - I most certainly think we will win 8+ this year. However, I also read on here that there are only 4-5 of us out there that think so. Welcome to the group.


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Thanks! This is great! I was so confused because I've constantly expressed the reason why PJF will be a major difference maker for this program. Some people are skeptical, but everyone will find out soon enough. I'm excited to see the differences this year.

Thanks Daniel. I appreciate your content. I was making a joke in that a couple of the biggest PJF supporters on this site claim that anyone thinking we could or should win 8+ games this year just want PJF to fail. No disrespect intended toward you.

FTR - I most certainly think we will win 8+ this year. However, I also read on here that there are only 4-5 of us out there that think so. Welcome to the group.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Not at all! Listen to the podcast and you'll see how excited I am to watch Fleck coach this team. This guy can lead and will bring results because of the people he surrounds himself with and his high level of recruiting, coaching, and player development. I don't think people truly understand the change that will take place here. It will take 1-2 years to get over the next hump as Fleck implements everything. Once he does, he'll reach his vision consistently (Big Ten Championships, etc.).. I wouldn't be shocked if this team was extremely surprising this year, but there are many moving pieces we must evaluate first. We have to be realistic right now until we watch it all unfold. In 2 years, Fleck will have his complete crop of players, along with his culture installed. One thing is certain: the Gophers won't lose games in the second half and will be more disciplined in every facet of the game. This could lead to them winning games they competed in last year, but couldn't hold a lead. This team will do the little things right to succeed and who knows what that will do for them in the short-term. However, the outlook is brighter than it's ever been. People forget this team went through a coaching change, but won 9 games. Fleck's culture and level of coaching might be enough to take them over the top. The Gophers lost four games last year and led at the half in three. More talent was added, the offense should be improved, and the coaching will develop players every single year. More importantly, this squad won't get outcoached in crunch time.

Inside joke... there's an insecure few who think those expecting Fleck to win more than six games this year must want him to fail.
 

Inside jokes are the best. It keeps everyone on their toes and creates debate.
 



Great podcast! Love all the insight on recruiting.


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Thanks for listening! Appreciate the kind words.

People keep talking about all the depth issues the program is facing at certain positions. With all due respect, outside of the perennial powers and the helmet schools that re-stock with 4* recruits every year, don't most program have some depth issues? that's why OSU and Bama are where they are, and why the Gophers are where they are.

I would be willing to bet that you could break down the roster for every program that was outside of the top 30 in the country, and find depth issues. So the Gophers are not unique in that issue.
 



People keep talking about all the depth issues the program is facing at certain positions. With all due respect, outside of the perennial powers and the helmet schools that re-stock with 4* recruits every year, don't most program have some depth issues? that's why OSU and Bama are where they are, and why the Gophers are where they are.

I would be willing to bet that you could break down the roster for every program that was outside of the top 30 in the country, and find depth issues. So the Gophers are not unique in that issue.

Agreed. It is interesting that some feel these issues for the Gophs are always worse than seemingly everyone else.
 

Thanks Daniel & GopherLady!

It does make me wonder about how recruiting style will impact the Gophers' standing in the B1G West & B1G Championship aspirations in the PJ Fleck era.

Kill was really good at finding hidden gems and coaching them up. He was successful at that and brought program stability.

But, IMHO that alone would never get them to the promise land. The six-year running data compiled for the years 2011 to 2016 show an average finish in the B1G Standings of 4.67 behind NW, Iowa, Neb, and Wisc. I extrapolated data from the Legends and Leaders period. They are also in 5th place in average recruit ranking at 82.69.

At some point in time, you need the high caliber athletes to go to the next stage or forever be lower echelon.

For the Gophers to mount a challenge for the B1G, they need to shift gear and get the game changer athletes in the next few recruiting cycles.

IMHO, they need to have an average recruit ranking of around 84-86 consistently and a national ranking in the low 40s or better.

This is were PJ Fleck's recruiting style can be a game changer and something for all GOpher fans to be excited about. This guy can recruit. The Gophers average rank was 6th place in B1G West for 2017, and currently 5th for 2018 with the NSD a ways yet. It will take another couple years of solid recruiting to see how established the Gophers will be under Fleck.

Coaching is also important as the numbers for the top four teams in the B1G West seem to indicate.

So, it is a double-edged sword. We need great recruiting and coaching.

TEAM AVERAGES 2011-2016
TEAM---STDG--REC RNK--NAT'L REC RANK
WISC---1.67---84.69---42.67
NEBR---2.50---86.77---27.00
IOWa---3.00---83.71---48.00
NorW---4.17---84.25---53.67
MINN---4.67---82.69---58.33
ILLIN---6.00---82.54---57.33
PURD---6.00---82.42---67.00


If we look at the B1G West in the Kill/Claeys era,

KILL-CLAEYS ERA STNDG-RANK.jpg

KILL-FLECK ERA STNDG-RANK.jpg
 

Thanks Daniel. I appreciate your content. I was making a joke in that a couple of the biggest PJF supporters on this site claim that anyone thinking we could or should win 8+ games this year just want PJF to fail. No disrespect intended toward you.

FTR - I most certainly think we will win 8+ this year. However, I also read on here that there are only 4-5 of us out there that think so. Welcome to the group.


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I wouldn't be surprised if we won 8 games. My issue is with those who expect it and say stuff like PJ should be building off last year's 9 win season. Which implies we should expect to win 10 games.

2018 is probably more difficult as Claeys left us nothing at DT. Literally, nothing....
 

Thanks Daniel & GopherLady!

It does make me wonder about how recruiting style will impact the Gophers' standing in the B1G West & B1G Championship aspirations in the PJ Fleck era.

Kill was really good at finding hidden gems and coaching them up. He was successful at that and brought program stability.

But, IMHO that alone would never get them to the promise land. The six-year running data compiled for the years 2011 to 2016 show an average finish in the B1G Standings of 4.67 behind NW, Iowa, Neb, and Wisc. I extrapolated data from the Legends and Leaders period. They are also in 5th place in average recruit ranking at 82.69.

At some point in time, you need the high caliber athletes to go to the next stage or forever be lower echelon.

For the Gophers to mount a challenge for the B1G, they need to shift gear and get the game changer athletes in the next few recruiting cycles.

IMHO, they need to have an average recruit ranking of around 84-86 consistently and a national ranking in the low 40s or better.

This is were PJ Fleck's recruiting style can be a game changer and something for all GOpher fans to be excited about. This guy can recruit. The Gophers average rank was 6th place in B1G West for 2017, and currently 5th for 2018 with the NSD a ways yet. It will take another couple years of solid recruiting to see how established the Gophers will be under Fleck.

Coaching is also important as the numbers for the top four teams in the B1G West seem to indicate.

So, it is a double-edged sword. We need great recruiting and coaching.

TEAM AVERAGES 2011-2016
TEAM---STDG--REC RNK--NAT'L REC RANK
WISC---1.67---84.69---42.67
NEBR---2.50---86.77---27.00
IOWa---3.00---83.71---48.00
NorW---4.17---84.25---53.67
MINN---4.67---82.69---58.33
ILLIN---6.00---82.54---57.33
PURD---6.00---82.42---67.00


If we look at the B1G West in the Kill/Claeys era,

View attachment 4963

View attachment 4964

Great stuff to go with the podcast! I definitely agree that consistent classes in the low to mid 40s is the next plateau. Fingers crossed that 2018 will be the start of that level of class, but it looks a lot like recent classes right now. Obviously winning is critical, so Fleck hitting the ground running starting this year and elevating the win total over the recent success is needed.
 

I wouldn't be surprised if we won 8 games. My issue is with those who expect it and say stuff like PJ should be building off last year's 9 win season. Which implies we should expect to win 10 games.

2018 is probably more difficult as Claeys left us nothing at DT. Literally, nothing....

Two thoughts.....

1. Couldn't agree more with your last paragraph. It was a huge failing.

2. I don't think I know how to count to 4 or 5 anymore.


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This really illustrates what I was getting at in the podcast. It's about developing consistent classes and fully utilizing the athleticism available in the recruiting landscape. The previous staff recruited and developed a different style of player. I really feel like the game is shifting to the point where becoming more "hybrid" on both sides of the ball will be integral to achieving above average program success. Every team you watch has athletes and are extremely creative with how they are used. In order to take your program to the next level, you have to be innovative and develop players a different way. Fleck's vision is to do that.

Thanks Daniel & GopherLady!

It does make me wonder about how recruiting style will impact the Gophers' standing in the B1G West & B1G Championship aspirations in the PJ Fleck era.

Kill was really good at finding hidden gems and coaching them up. He was successful at that and brought program stability.

But, IMHO that alone would never get them to the promise land. The six-year running data compiled for the years 2011 to 2016 show an average finish in the B1G Standings of 4.67 behind NW, Iowa, Neb, and Wisc. I extrapolated data from the Legends and Leaders period. They are also in 5th place in average recruit ranking at 82.69.

At some point in time, you need the high caliber athletes to go to the next stage or forever be lower echelon.

For the Gophers to mount a challenge for the B1G, they need to shift gear and get the game changer athletes in the next few recruiting cycles.

IMHO, they need to have an average recruit ranking of around 84-86 consistently and a national ranking in the low 40s or better.

This is were PJ Fleck's recruiting style can be a game changer and something for all GOpher fans to be excited about. This guy can recruit. The Gophers average rank was 6th place in B1G West for 2017, and currently 5th for 2018 with the NSD a ways yet. It will take another couple years of solid recruiting to see how established the Gophers will be under Fleck.

Coaching is also important as the numbers for the top four teams in the B1G West seem to indicate.

So, it is a double-edged sword. We need great recruiting and coaching.

TEAM AVERAGES 2011-2016
TEAM---STDG--REC RNK--NAT'L REC RANK
WISC---1.67---84.69---42.67
NEBR---2.50---86.77---27.00
IOWa---3.00---83.71---48.00
NorW---4.17---84.25---53.67
MINN---4.67---82.69---58.33
ILLIN---6.00---82.54---57.33
PURD---6.00---82.42---67.00


If we look at the B1G West in the Kill/Claeys era,

View attachment 4963

View attachment 4964
 

The main issue is the fact the defensive tackle position was neglected. You aren't going to have perfect depth. However, planning ahead and making sure you are set for the long-term is important. There is no way the DL should be in this position right now. The Gophers are just very top heavy at certain spots on defense and spreading out talent is something that is important. That starts with recruiting in a way that ensures you are keeping your future outlook in mind.

People keep talking about all the depth issues the program is facing at certain positions. With all due respect, outside of the perennial powers and the helmet schools that re-stock with 4* recruits every year, don't most program have some depth issues? that's why OSU and Bama are where they are, and why the Gophers are where they are.

I would be willing to bet that you could break down the roster for every program that was outside of the top 30 in the country, and find depth issues. So the Gophers are not unique in that issue.
 

Great job Daniel and Nadine! Was really an interesting interview. I may be missing a part of your message, esp the part about how Fleck recruits. My thinking is about a maxim I heard from a college coach, "If you don;t adapt, you die." Because there are no (or few) duds who end up coaching at the B1G level, I believe that other coaches will quickly recognize the new strategies and adopt them. Oregon made a relatively quick climb to the top and fell off the cliff last year. Superior facilities and a few incredible recruits (Mariota, a 5th year transfer QB or two) sure helped, but the long term answer is more elusive. We are in for a long, long struggle and some years will be better than others. As is the case every year, my hopes are high, but the task is daunting. Go Gophers!
 

This really illustrates what I was getting at in the podcast. It's about developing consistent classes and fully utilizing the athleticism available in the recruiting landscape. The previous staff recruited and developed a different style of player. I really feel like the game is shifting to the point where becoming more "hybrid" on both sides of the ball will be integral to achieving above average program success. Every team you watch has athletes and are extremely creative with how they are used. In order to take your program to the next level, you have to be innovative and develop players a different way. Fleck's vision is to do that.

It is more crucial for PJF and I think he sees the big picture that you need to adapt and recruit more multi-faceted hybrid players that can be impact players or those that can play more than one position to cover gaps in under recruiting, injuries, or weak position groups.

The upgrading of the talent and athleticism may go faster, or it may be one that consistently get better year succeeding years. Retaining coaches long term is crucial. We have to have lady luck on our side.

My take on PJ Fleck: PJF appears to be a visionary who understands that great football teams have great coaches. He knows how to assemble a great coaching staff. He leaves them alone to do their jobs. He is not afraid to make changes, is patient enough to allow players to fail, sees the long term view, certainly can recruit, understands and relates to the young generation, knows how to sell and market the Gopher Brand, has endeared himself & is accessible to the public and media, is full of indefatigable boundless energy and enthusiasm of the likes we've never seen before.

It is hard not to get excited. There will be bumps in the road, but I am certain we will see the Gophers rise to heights never seen in a long time.
 

The 2017 Gophers will likely be typical of what we have been since the prime of the Mason era (subtract the Brewster era for incompetence)...race out to a strong record and possible ranking and then get slapped in the face by the class of the conference and finish with 6 or 7 wins. 5 wins equates to disappointment and 8 is a huge success (9 last year was a huge success before you claim that I'm a Claeys hater). The hope is that Fleck can raise our recruiting beyond our current threshold, but until then we are a 5-9 win type of team.
 

Great job on the podcast. One of the interesting points that Daniel brought up was the weakness that some of the prior coaching staff had at developing players. Of course, Sawvel and a few others did a great job in developing players, but several positions did nothing (my thoughts are WR, QB, OL...). And how that affected the players the had to recruit vs the type of players they are now recruiting.


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This is exactly what I was trying to say. Some people were thinking I meant the entire staff couldn't develop anyone. Definitely not the case and I hope I explained that well when I rephrased it. It's just the fact they never had a complete player development system. On defense, the strengths were LB and DB. Well, Sawvel and Sherels were fantastic at recruiting and development. Other than that, it's tough to find another position group where you felt there was solid player development. Fleck has made it a priority to have solid recruiting and player development at each position group. I believe it will be a huge difference this year.

Great job on the podcast. One of the interesting points that Daniel brought up was the weakness that some of the prior coaching staff had at developing players. Of course, Sawvel and a few others did a great job in developing players, but several positions did nothing (my thoughts are WR, QB, OL...). And how that affected the players the had to recruit vs the type of players they are now recruiting.


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I wouldn't be surprised if we won 8 games. My issue is with those who expect it and say stuff like PJ should be building off last year's 9 win season. Which implies we should expect to win 10 games.

2018 is probably more difficult as Claeys left us nothing at DT. Literally, nothing....

Yes, DT was a total failure by Claeys. Meanwhile, we'll have a strong set of juniors at linebacker and another year of experience with the DBs. It doesn't need to be a total rebuild on defense. I'd like to see Fleck go after a JUCO DT or two so it's not a total black hole in the middle of the line. However, I fear he won't.
 

Yes, DT was a total failure by Claeys. Meanwhile, we'll have a strong set of juniors at linebacker and another year of experience with the DBs. It doesn't need to be a total rebuild on defense. I'd like to see Fleck go after a JUCO DT or two so it's not a total black hole in the middle of the line. However, I fear he won't.

I was thinking that myself. if Claeys and his staff were still here, I believe they would definitely have signed one or two JUCO's at DT.

Granted, in a perfect world, you would have well-balanced classes every year and never need JUCO's. But, we don't live in a perfect world. I understand Fleck's point of view, and that's fine. Personally, I don't mind a couple of JUCOs in a class to give a little more experience and physical maturity at a position of need. Don't want to rely too heavily on JUCO's, but I wouldn't say No to having a few JUCO's on the team.
 

Yes, DT was a total failure by Claeys. Meanwhile, we'll have a strong set of juniors at linebacker and another year of experience with the DBs. It doesn't need to be a total rebuild on defense. I'd like to see Fleck go after a JUCO DT or two so it's not a total black hole in the middle of the line. However, I fear he won't.

Little unfair to Coach Claeys seeing he never really had a complete recruiting cycle of his own.
 






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