Rey Estes, freshman QB from East St. Louis.

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Watched some additional video on this kid. Pretty impressive. He led East St. Louis HS to the State Championship ( 13-0 ) and was first team All State. Call this a hunch, but if the kid picks up the system he might just be in the mix for QB. He has that wiggle that makes the opposition miss tackles and he throws the ball well on the move. They show his weight at 170#. If he has added some weight without losing that quick twitch it might be pretty interesting watching how he evolves in the fall. He is definitely the quickest of the QB's in camp. We haven't had that type of QB since Ricky Foggie.
 

Watched some additional video on this kid. Pretty impressive. He led East St. Louis HS to the State Championship ( 13-0 ) and was first team All State. Call this a hunch, but if the kid picks up the system he might just be in the mix for QB. He has that wiggle that makes the opposition miss tackles and he throws the ball well on the move. They show his weight at 170#. If he has added some weight without losing that quick twitch it might be pretty interesting watching how he evolves in the fall. He is definitely the quickest of the QB's in camp. We haven't had that type of QB since Ricky Foggie.

Leidner twitched
 

You've got to have some character to rise up out of East St Louis and into a B1G scholarship as well. I'm gonna assume he's got it.
 

that's nice they list him as one now but he's not going to play QB long term
 




It takes a pretty special QB to make it despite being 6 feet or less. Has to have either great anticipation or mobility or both. There are plenty of good examples of superb college QBs in that height range. And if a player is listed at 6 feet, he's less.

The reason given for ideal height being 6 foot 4 + is better sight lines and ability to throw shorter passes on a flatter and faster trajectory.

A large human head is about 9-10 inches from top to chin. The eyes are about halfway down, so in an NFLer 5 inches. The shoulders/trap muscles begin to extend laterally at about chin height and fall inferiorly with increasing distance from the spine.

So if a 6 foot 4 QBs eyes are at roughly the 5 foot 11 level that means to see over a lineman's head that lineman has to be 5 foot 11 or less. Of course offensive linemen bend their knees this dropping their total height about 3-4 inches. So they can now be 6 foot 3 or so. But, the QB also has a slight knee bend so that probably puts the upper limit at 6 foot 1.

Obviously there are no linemen that height, therefore no QB, except maybe Osweiler can see over a lineman's head. However, there are still the traps/shoulders/backs to see over. If the average lineman is 6 foot 5 and their knee bend drops them to 6 foot 1 and their traps begin at approximately the 5 foot 1 level that means a QBs eyes have to be at the same level or higher. As the eyes are roughly 4-5 inches from the top of the head that means a minimum QB height is 5 foot 6. Hmm. Seems like a shorter QB should be able to see over the shoulders.

However, there is still the issue of batted passes, and arm strength. In general, those d lineman are going to be anticipating passes and waiting for that opportunity to knock it down. Simple physics here. Same with arm strength.

Still, a QB that's elite level at anticipating where receivers will be, reading defenses, accurate while rolling out etc should be able to play, no question. Brees, Russell; in college Kellen Moore, etc
 

It takes a pretty special QB to make it despite being 6 feet or less. Has to have either great anticipation or mobility or both. There are plenty of good examples of superb college QBs in that height range. And if a player is listed at 6 feet, he's less.

The reason given for ideal height being 6 foot 4 + is better sight lines and ability to throw shorter passes on a flatter and faster trajectory.

A large human head is about 9-10 inches from top to chin. The eyes are about halfway down, so in an NFLer 5 inches. The shoulders/trap muscles begin to extend laterally at about chin height and fall inferiorly with increasing distance from the spine.

So if a 6 foot 4 QBs eyes are at roughly the 5 foot 11 level that means to see over a lineman's head that lineman has to be 5 foot 11 or less. Of course offensive linemen bend their knees this dropping their total height about 3-4 inches. So they can now be 6 foot 3 or so. But, the QB also has a slight knee bend so that probably puts the upper limit at 6 foot 1.

Obviously there are no linemen that height, therefore no QB, except maybe Osweiler can see over a lineman's head. However, there are still the traps/shoulders/backs to see over. If the average lineman is 6 foot 5 and their knee bend drops them to 6 foot 1 and their traps begin at approximately the 5 foot 1 level that means a QBs eyes have to be at the same level or higher. As the eyes are roughly 4-5 inches from the top of the head that means a minimum QB height is 5 foot 6. Hmm. Seems like a shorter QB should be able to see over the shoulders.

However, there is still the issue of batted passes, and arm strength. In general, those d lineman are going to be anticipating passes and waiting for that opportunity to knock it down. Simple physics here. Same with arm strength.

Still, a QB that's elite level at anticipating where receivers will be, reading defenses, accurate while rolling out etc should be able to play, no question. Brees, Russell; in college Kellen Moore, etc

The first and last paragraph would have been enough. :D
 




I fully expect we will here about Estes move to either CB or slot WR after 2 weeks of fall camp...
 



What's the story on this kid? I could hardly keep up with the moving and shaking of recruiting after Fleck was hired. I know we took Tanner Morgan as the QB of the class - Did we recruit him as an additional QB or ATH?
 



Let's talk again once the season starts. If he's still a QB at that point, you're more than welcome k come back to this and call me out

I wasn't calling anybody out. You said "he's not going to play QB long-term." That made it sound (to me) as if you had some 'inside information,' but weren't sharing it for some reason.

If you had said - "he's too short to stick at QB," then I would have understood your point much more clearly. assuming that was your point.

On the broader point, I understand the height argument, and if a coach is choosing between two equal candidates for QB, he's likely to take the taller player. But, that assumes they are absolutely equal. If the shorter guy is better than the taller guy, play the shorter guy.
 


I wasn't calling anybody out. You said "he's not going to play QB long-term." That made it sound (to me) as if you had some 'inside information,' but weren't sharing it for some reason.

If you had said - "he's too short to stick at QB," then I would have understood your point much more clearly. assuming that was your point.

On the broader point, I understand the height argument, and if a coach is choosing between two equal candidates for QB, he's likely to take the taller player. But, that assumes they are absolutely equal. If the shorter guy is better than the taller guy, play the shorter guy.

I wouldn't call it insider information (who actually pays for that stuff) but it hasn't exactly been a secret either that he's going to get a "chance" at QB but will eventually be moved.
 

Doug Flutie was 5' 10" 180 lbs. Anything is possible if the kid has heart and the "It Factor". Time will tell and it will be a great storyline if he were to win the starting QB spot.

The greater likelihood is switching positions to CB as was suggested. Didn't Jerry Kill recruit a lot of HS QBs because they are usually the best athletes on most HS teams to play other positions?
 


There is a pretty good QB who played a year at Wisconsin who is 5' 11', played in a couple Super Bowls, won one of them.


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No one said a 5'11" kid couldn't or hasn't played QB. A few have (rightfully) said it makes it tougher and less likely.


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"Your introduction and conclsion were sufficient, Lewis".

During my stream of consciousness I neglected to a account for shoulder pads and helmets. So that knocks the permissible height up the what, 5 foot 7, 8? And, it's doubtful even Brock Osweiler can see over his linemen's head.

What midget QB is going to make it at the HS level outside of smaller programs, with exceptions for phenoms? Coaches will naturally have a larger pool of applicants at larger schools. Are those smaller school midget QBs less likely to be heavily recruited? I think of Kellen Moore. Slight, short, small town kid. Phenomenal college QB, serviceable NFL backup (and may yet get a chance).
 



No one said a 5'11" kid couldn't or hasn't played QB. A few have (rightfully) said it makes it tougher and less likely.


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Why do you hate Ray Estes?
 


Doug Flutie was 5' 10" 180 lbs. Anything is possible if the kid has heart and the "It Factor". Time will tell and it will be a great storyline if he were to win the starting QB spot.

The greater likelihood is switching positions to CB as was suggested. Didn't Jerry Kill recruit a lot of HS QBs because they are usually the best athletes on most HS teams to play other positions?

Antwan Randle El was also 5'10"/ ~ 180lbs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antwaan_Randle_El

Stacy Robinson was ~5'11"/~185lbs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stacy_Robinson

If he is half as good as either of them, I think we will be excited to see him play. No matter what position he plays.
 

I think the thread needs a spreadsheet of every 5'11" guy who has ever played CFB QB.


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It's always funny to me when you have to go back 20-30 years (or close to 50 for Tarkenton) to find a few examples to try and make a point.

Here's a hint: if you could identify a few Gopher QB's (or even B1G QBs) in the last 10 years that were 5'10" or shorter and successful you'd be on to something. The fact that you have to go back so far proves the original point - that Estes will in all likelihood change positions rather quickly.
 

I think the thread needs a spreadsheet of every 5'11" guy who has ever played CFB QB.


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I had my picture taken with Billy Cockerham. I'm 5'10" and I was at eye level with him.
 

It's all in how it's worded.

I may be picky (comes from having my mom as a former teacher), but there's a difference between: "he will not stick at QB" and "I think he will wind up at another position because he's not big enough to be a B1G QB."

The first is presented as a factual statement - the second is clearly an opinion. This is something that bugs me about this board - people who present opinions as if they were facts, and/or don't make it clear whether what they're saying is an opinion, or has some factual basis.

All I'm asking is a little clarification - is your post an opinion - did you read someone on one of the pay sites - did you witness something at practice - hear something from a coach or a player - or did your neighbor's dog send you psychic messages?
 




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