In the history of the MAC...

Some Day...Maybe

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what team has ever had a more impressive season than PJ Fleck's Western Michigan team did last season?

I went back to 1980 and found only 1 that may be considered better and that is the 1999 Marshall Thundering Herd. 13-0 with wins over Clemson and BYU. However, neither Clemson nor BYU was near the caliber of Wisconsin that year. Neither were in the top 25, Wisconsin was top 10.

To me, what Fleck did last year was nearly unprecedented in the last 40 years of MAC football. Critique his style all you want, but there are a ton of coaches that have gone through the MAC in the last 40 years that didn't have a season as good as the one he and his staff produced last year. In fact, I think there's only been 1 out of 100+, and even that's arguable.

I'll be interested to see if anyone argues any better seasons and sticks to the topic. Most likely this will spin way off the topic of the post but I wanted to put it out there since every Fleck discussion seems to be about style vs substance. I think it's worth noting the historical achievement by Fleck.

Who does anyone think was a better hire for Gopher Football in the last 40 years???? I'm talking before the coach was hired you would say you thought he'd be better than you think Fleck will be.


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Some coaches can have style and substance. Fleck does, and Kill did too. Fleck was a great hire with a high ceiling. Time will tell if he's a great Big Ten coach.
 

Lou Holtz was a far more accomplished coach when he was hired by the Gophers.
 

It was really an unprecedented season for a MAC team. I listen to most of the college football podcasts and they all love to talk Fleck he has brought more national buzz to Minnesota than even Holtz. The locals ate up Holtz more than they have Fleck but we have a bunch dour malcontents in the local media so no surprise there.
 

Better, probably not, but the 2012 NIU season was pretty similar. 12-1 regular season (1-point loss in opening game to Iowa) and a BCS Bowl Game (Orange) where they were beat.
Not sure who would argue PJ's coaching resume to this point?
Not sure anyone in here has yet?


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what team has ever had a more impressive season than PJ Fleck's Western Michigan team did last season?

I went back to 1980 and found only 1 that may be considered better and that is the 1999 Marshall Thundering Herd. 13-0 with wins over Clemson and BYU. However, neither Clemson nor BYU was near the caliber of Wisconsin that year. Neither were in the top 25, Wisconsin was top 10.

To me, what Fleck did last year was nearly unprecedented in the last 40 years of MAC football. Critique his style all you want, but there are a ton of coaches that have gone through the MAC in the last 40 years that didn't have a season as good as the one he and his staff produced last year. In fact, I think there's only been 1 out of 100+, and even that's arguable.

I'll be interested to see if anyone argues any better seasons and sticks to the topic. Most likely this will spin way off the topic of the post but I wanted to put it out there since every Fleck discussion seems to be about style vs substance. I think it's worth noting the historical achievement by Fleck.

Who does anyone think was a better hire for Gopher Football in the last 40 years???? I'm talking before the coach was hired you would say you thought he'd be better than you think Fleck will be.


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Well, the Big Ben-led 2003 Miami of Ohio team had a better season. They lost their opener to reigning Big Ten champs Iowa 21-3 (and Iowa would go on to be a 10 win team that year) then ran the table. They beat Northwestern, CSU, Louisville, Cincinnati, and a ranked Bowling Green team twice. They reached #10 in the polls.

About the bolded, they lost to Wisconsin so I'm not sure why it matters.

WMU definitely had a really good season and had some really good players. We all hope and pray Fleck can work that magic with MN.
 

Lou Holtz was a far more accomplished coach when he was hired by the Gophers.

what is your definition of 'accomplished'?

and what is your definition of 'far more'?

edit: and who the **** is lou holtz?
 

Fleck is our coach...he is 0-0. Ask me in ten years how I feel about Fleck....
 

Fleck is our coach...he is 0-0. Ask me in ten years how I feel about Fleck....
I have full confidence that PJF will be very successful here. He's a great motivator, and he doesn't get rattled by the inevitable set back. I think he will be way more disciplined and patient than Brewster was in creating a culture here. I think JK did a fantastic job of starting the cultural revolution here and PJF will take it to the next level. Good things are going to happen! Go Gophers!
 



I should say, "Good things ARE happening here, and will only get better" UM Football has really been pretty solid for the last 4 years.
 

Northern Illinois made the Orange Bowl in 2013, which is better than the Cotton Bowl
 

Lou Holtz was a far more accomplished coach when he was hired by the Gophers.

Seems like he liked to cheat to get his teams better though. Who knows what the NCCA doesn't know about Hotz.
 




So we only needed to go back 13-years to find 2 that are comparable and 4 more years to find a third?


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So we only needed to go back 13-years to find 2 that are comparable and 4 more years to find a third?


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Exactly. Fleck's season was not unprecedented. The rest of the MAC was pretty down last year. They didn't beat anyone of note. I like Fleck, but I don't think this narrative is at all accurate. It was a great season for a MAC team no doubt, but there have been plenty of comparable ones and some better ones.
 

Miami (Ohio) had powerhouse teams in the mid-70's. I cannot remember the exact records or rankings, but
from 1973-75 they won 3 MAC titles, won three Tangerine Bowls (where the MAC winner went), and were
ranked in the Top Ten. In those bowl games they beat Florida, South Carolina, and another SEC team.
 

Another very good team was 2003 NIU, who beat #21 Alabama, Iowa State, and #15 Maryland, before stumbling twice in conference to an 11 win Bowling Green and 8 win Toledo.
 

Lou Holtz was a far more accomplished coach when he was hired by the Gophers.
I don't mean this to be snippy, but what is the point? I don't get what this has to do with Fleck. For that matter, Cal Stoll and Murray Warmath were more accomplished as well having coached at Wake Forest and Mississippi State, but they did not go 12-0 at a MAC school while beating 2 B1G teams on the road and giving a top 10 B1G team a good fight in a bowl game.
 

Well, the Big Ben-led 2003 Miami of Ohio team had a better season. They lost their opener to reigning Big Ten champs Iowa 21-3 (and Iowa would go on to be a 10 win team that year) then ran the table. They beat Northwestern, CSU, Louisville, Cincinnati, and a ranked Bowling Green team twice. They reached #10 in the polls.

About the bolded, they lost to Wisconsin so I'm not sure why it matters.

WMU definitely had a really good season and had some really good players. We all hope and pray Fleck can work that magic with MN.

I agree, that belongs in the top 3 in the last 40 years and may be the best. Although Wisconsin was every bit as good or better than that Iowa team and WM only lost by a score, Miami got beat by 3 scores. Miami beating a ranked team twice is something WM didn't do. Good post!


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Fleck had a very good year coaching a MAC team. The question is - what does that say about his prospects now that he is coaching at a higher level of competition?

Is it a guarantee of success? An indicator of possible success? Or does it mean nothing about how Fleck will do at a different job?

It would be great to say "Fleck won at a MAC school, so he's going to win at the B1G level." But, I am not ready to make that leap of faith.
I want to see how his offensive and defensive schemes play at a higher level. I want to see how well he recruits at a higher level.

Look, we've all seen young, hot-shot coaches try to move up the ladder. Some of them do very well - some of them take more time to acclimate to a higher level of competition. There are some questions that can only be answered with time.
 

I don't mean this to be snippy, but what is the point? I don't get what this has to do with Fleck. For that matter, Cal Stoll and Murray Warmath were more accomplished as well having coached at Wake Forest and Mississippi State, but they did not go 12-0 at a MAC school while beating 2 B1G teams on the road and giving a top 10 B1G team a good fight in a bowl game.

Hey man, no need for the attitude, I was just answering the question.
 

Fleck had a very good year coaching a MAC team. The question is - what does that say about his prospects now that he is coaching at a higher level of competition?

Is it a guarantee of success? An indicator of possible success? Or does it mean nothing about how Fleck will do at a different job?

It would be great to say "Fleck won at a MAC school, so he's going to win at the B1G level." But, I am not ready to make that leap of faith.
I want to see how his offensive and defensive schemes play at a higher level. I want to see how well he recruits at a higher level.

Look, we've all seen young, hot-shot coaches try to move up the ladder. Some of them do very well - some of them take more time to acclimate to a higher level of competition. There are some questions that can only be answered with time.

Why do you always feel the need to state the obvious? People are debating Fleck because it's a message board. No one knows how he will do yet. Should we just all move on with our lives and come back to GH in 3 years when we have more data?
 

If anybody here thinks we would've beat Western Michigan had we play them, well, you're wrong.
 

If anybody here thinks we would've beat Western Michigan had we play them, well, you're wrong.

:confused:

Anybody planning on grilling lamb or pork ribs on the 4th. I mean as long as were going off-topic might as well go for it all?:party:
 

Why do you always feel the need to state the obvious? People are debating Fleck because it's a message board. No one knows how he will do yet. Should we just all move on with our lives and come back to GH in 3 years when we have more data?

I realized this the other day. I have taken Wren's place on this board. I am here to provide "contrast."

As to your point - this thread started with a claim that Fleck had the best season in MAC history. to which I reply - that's nice. If Fleck did in fact have the best season in MAC history, what does that mean now that Fleck is the coach of the Gophers. I felt there was an implied suggestion that Fleck was going to accomplish something similar with the Gophers. He might - or he might not. But I stand by my opinion that Fleck's success at a lower-level school is no guarantee of similar success. What can we learn from Fleck's MAC teams? Schemes - systems - how he uses players in different situations, etc. Those are things that we can apply to his new job - and even (gasp) speculate about how he might handle players on his new team.

But, the mere fact that he had a great year for a MAC team is like saying Byron Buxton had a great year at AAA. Sometimes, success at a lower level is not a precursor to success at a higher level. That's all I'm saying.

Captain Obvious signing off.
 


I am only interested in Fleck having an "unprecedented" season in the Big Ten for our Gophers!
 


If anybody here thinks we would've beat Western Michigan had we play them, well, you're wrong.

I'd love to hear how someone can possibly be "wrong" about something that is unprovable.

Also, according to Sagarin, WMU would've been a 2-point favorite in a neutral-site game at the end of last season. Just insurmountable odds to overcome, really. :rolleyes:
 

It would have been a competitive game. I genuinely would have loved to see that matchup.
Actually I believe our defense was better equipped to play them than Wisconsin was. As much as I like TC's defense, it was actually structured to stop pass oriented offenses more than power offenses. I am not saying we were a better team than Wisconsin or WMU, but I do believe we match up better against WMU than we did against Wisconsin or Iowa for example.
But Corey Davis was a dominant player. I watched the MAC championship game and the defense had no answers for him.
 




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