Is it just me or is the star level of our recruiting

Every leader, coach, manager will bring their own personal climate and practices. Some coaches are disciplinarians (e.g. Kill), some push players harder than normal or acceptable (e.g. Beckmann or take your pick of old school coaches), or both; some are lax "players coaches" (e.g. Denny Green), but Fleck is a different cat. Maybe his special sauce is bending the players to his will without having to resort to disciplinary tactics. To me he clearly enjoys his pied piper status, and he enjoys recruiting his followers. His career has been on a pretty much parabolic arc which has fueled his fun little cult (no disrespect I'm genuinely amused by it all) but it will be interesting to see how he personally handles Reusse-style criticism if he stumbles for a year or two. He already seems a bit thin-skinned so I'm a bit concerned. I pray we DON'T have a drop off so he can keep all this going. I may never be able to bring myself to fully buy into his lexicon but I'm buying into PJ making others buy into it and leading us to the promised land.
 

Not really.
If you recall, Brewster left a dumpster fire. Kill had to rebuild from scratch.
While there was a sex scandal last fall, that was resolved. Also, there is a new facility being built.
I am calling things equal.

Ya, years 5 and 6 of a coach in a program are equal to year 1. You're right. Oh ya, and a year long gang rape inquiry, bowl boycott threat, and firing of the head coach has no affect. I guess we should expect more, after all, we are Minnesota Gopher football! Fleck should be pulling in 4 star recruits left and right at this point, before ever coaching a game. Crazy he's not.


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You obviously did not take the 10 seconds needed to read the post I was responding to...

Gophs are coming off a 9 win season with a new HC who has major national recognition coming off a 13 win season and Cotton bowl appearance, and a reputation for his recruiting prowess (many national articles), so you're right, it's not fair to Kill or Claeys to use any of their classes for comparison.

So you'd agree, Fleck is far and away the best coach Gopher football has had in the last 50 years? Also, sad that you would disparage Kill and Claeys that way, they did a tremendous amount for this program!


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Your post may not be met with praise, but it is spot on. People want to believe and so they tend to hear what they want to hear - but you should be commended for seeing the forest through the trees. Well put SON.


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Agreed


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===========================
2011-18 CLASS COMPARISON
===========================

1) For better or worse I only used 247.
2) Kill/Claeys and Co. were good at finding RB and defensive diamonds.
3) Fleck got the Gophers being picked over Clemson in a multi-part feature on ESPN. It will be fun to see where recruiting ends up come signing day.
4) Interesting comparison: In 2011 Stanford pulled their offer to David Cobb, correct? Rivals lists Stanford. 247 doesn't.


========================================
2011 CLASS - JERRY KILL (TRANSITION)
========================================
Rating - Name - Postion - P5 offers (Best of other offers)
========================================
MN Recruits
.8706 - Tommy Olson - C - 1
.8378 - Peter Westerhaus - LB - 2
.8211 - Joe Bjorklund - OG - 1
.8149 - Devin Crawford-Tufts - WR - 2
.8033 - Grayson Levine - S - 1
.7907 - Josh Campion - OT - 1

OOS Recruits
.8570 - Kyle McAvoy - OG - 7 (Louisville, Michigan State, Northwestern)
.8478 - Steven Montgomery - S - 4 (North Carolina, West Virginia, Maryland)
.8447 - Max Shortell - QB - 1
.8378 - Quentin Gardener - WR - 3
.8346 - Quinn Bauducco - LB - 1
.8338 - David Cobb - RB - 1
.8274 - Drayquan Crawford - S - 1
.8269 - Luke McAvoy - OT - 3
.8255 - Drew Goodger - TE - 1
.8221 - Michael Amaefula - DE - 1
.8103 - Foster Bush - OG - 1
.8196 - Jephete Matilus - FB - 1
.7843 - Marcus Jones - CB - 1
.7833 - Ge'Shun Harris - WR - 1
.7815 - John Rabe - TE - 1
.7591 - Theiren Cockran - DE - 2
.7591 - Derrick Wells - CB - 1
.7444 - Cedric Thmpson - S - 1

========================================
2012 CLASS - JERRY KILL
========================================

MN Recruits
.8735 - Andre McDonald - WR - 6 (tOSU, Michigan State, Iowa)
.8724 - Jonah Pirsig - OT - 10 (tOSU, Michigan, Michigan State)
.8713 - Isaac Hayes - OG - 3
.8583 - Philip Nelson - QB - 1
.8388 - Maxx Williams - TE - 1
.8341 - Nick Rallis - LB - 1
.8285 - Mitch Leidner - QB - 1
.7873 - Duke Anyanwu - TE - 1
.7791 - Isaac Fruechte - WR - 1
.7542 - Ben Lauer - OT - 1

OOS Recruits
.8715 - Jamel Harbison - WR - 7 (Clemson, Vanderbilt, West Virginia)
.8413 - Rodrick Williams Jr. - RB - 3
.8389 - Roland Johnson - DT - 1
.8274 - Antonio Johnson - S - 1
.8263 - Jack Lynn - LB - 1
.8203 - Scott Ekpe - DT - 1
.8159 - Jordan Hinojosa - DT - 1
.8100 - Martez Shabazz - CB - 1
.8095 - Lincoln Plsek - 1
.8029 - KJ Maye - WR - 2
.8000 - James Gillium - RB - 1
.8000 - Damarius Travis - S - 1
.7943 - Alex Keith - DE - 1
.7867 - Birean Boddy-Calhoun - CB - 1
.7791 - Eric Murray - CB - 1
.7333 - Yoshoub Timms - DT - 1

========================================
2013 CLASS - JERRY KILL
========================================

MN Recruits
.8238 - Chris Wipson - LB - 1

OOS Recruits
.8599 - Berkley Edwards - RB - 3
.8554 - De'Vondre Campbell - LB - 5 (Texas A&M, Texas, Kansas State)
.8486 - De'Niro Laster - WR - 4 (Cincinnati, Kansas, Temple)
.8431 - Nate Wozniak - TE - 7 (Wisconsin, Miami, Cincinnati)
.8406 - Owen Salzwedel - DE - 1
.8390 - Alex Mayes - OT - 5 (Kansas State, Houston, Connecticut?)
.8373 - Drew Wolitarsky - WR - 2
.8286 - Ray Dixon - LB - 3
.8256 - Damien Wilson - LB - 2
.8166 - Hendrick Ekpe - DE - 2
.8150 - Jalen Myrick - CB - 1
.8144 - Eric Carter - WR - 5 (Missouri, Cincinnati, Purdue)
.8117 - Chris Streveler - QB - 1
.8111 - Demaris Peppers - DT - 3
.8067 - Jordan Hinojosa - DT - 1
.8045 - Donovan Jones - WR - 7 (Arkansas, Missouri, Cincinnati)
.8014 - Ryan Santoso - P - 1
.7981- Daletavious McGhee - S - 2

========================================
2014 CLASS - JERRY KILL
========================================

MN Recruits
.9689 - Jeff Jones - RB - 10? (Florida, Michigan, Michigan State)
.8472 - Andrew Stelter - DE - 3
.8149 - Brandon Lingen - TE - 1

OOS Recruits
.8726 - Connor Mayes - OG - 13 (Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Baylor)
.8601 - Melvin Holland - WR - 5 (Wisconsin, Boston College, Rutgers)
.8568 - Gaelin Elmore - DE - 7 (Michigan State, Nebraska, Wisconsin)
.8547 - Dimonic Roden-McKinzy - QB - 3?
.8439 - Isaiah Gentry - WR - 2
.8406 - Craig James - CB - 7 (Missouri, Iowa, Syracuse?)
.8351 - Rodney Smith - RB - 2
.8194 - Conner Krizancic - WR - 2
.8150 - Jerry Gibson - DE - 2
.8141 - Steven Richardson - DT - 1
.8094 - Ra'Shaun Croney - ATH - 3?
.8078 - Everett Williams - LB - 1
.8069 - Cody Poock - LB - 3
.8015 - Jared Weyler - C - 1
.7993 - Gary Moore - DT - 1
.7980 - Jonathan Celestin - LB - 1
.7973 - Luke Rasmussen - OT - 1
.7880 - Julien Kafo - DE - 4 (Connecticut, Indiana, Pittsburgh)
????? - Desmond Gant - WR - 1

========================================
2015 CLASS - JERRY KILL
========================================

MN Recruits
.8391 - Bronson Dovich - OG - 2
.8309 - Nick Connelly - OT - 1

OOS Recruits
.8573 - Dior Johnson - S - 3?
.8553 - Quinn Oseland - OT - 17 (Oregon, Michigan State, Mississippi State)
.8538 - Tyler Moore - C - 6 (Texas, Illinois, Oregon State?)
.8535 - Charles Rogers - CB - 2
.8531 - Demry Croft - QB - 1
.8462 - Ray Buford - CB - 2
.8431 - Shannon Brooks - RB - 1
.8385 - Hunter Register - WR - 3
.8366 - Ted Stieber - OG - 5 (Cincinnati, Rutgers, Illinois)
.8362 - Jaylen Waters - LB - 1
.8347 - Winston DeLattiboudere - DE - 1
.8325 - James Johannesson - RB - 1
.8284 - Antonio Shenault - CB - 2
.8270 - Jonathan Femi-Cole - RB - 1
.8219 - Bryce Witham - TE - 1
.8169 - Mose Hall - DE - 3?
.8155 - Jacob Huff - S - 1
.8140 - Zo Craighton - CB - 2
.8082 - Kiante Hardin - CB - 1
.8070 - Rashad Still - WR - 1
.8033 - Julian Huff - LB - 1
.7996 - Colton Beebe - TE - 2

========================================
2016 CLASS - TRACY CLAEYS (TRANSITION?)
========================================

MN Recruits
.9528 - Carter Coughlin - LB - 7 (tOSU, Michigan State, Wisconsin)
.8813 - Seth Green - QB - 9 (Michigan State, Wisconsin, Oregon)
.8643 - Tyler Johnson - WR - 4 (Iowa, Iowa State, Wisconsin)
.8603 - Sam Schlueter - OG,OT - 6 (Michigan State, Wisconsin, Louisville)
.8518 - Kamal Martin - LB - 1
.8509 - Phillip Howard - WR - 1
.8470 - Drew Hmielewski - WR - 1
.8441 - Conner Olson - OG - 1
.8425 - Thomas Barber - LB - 1

OOS Recruits
.8472 - Garrison Wright - OT - 3
.8466 - Kiondre Thomas - CB - 2
.8375 - Coney Durr - CB - 6 (Kansas State, Memphis, North Carolina)
.8352 - Merrick Jackson - DT - 5 (Baylor, Oklahoma State, Illinois)
.8332 - Kobe McCrary - RB - 1
.8301 - Tai'yon Devers - DE - 1
.8285 - Antoine Winfield Jr. - S - 6 (Houston, Northwestern, Missouri)
.8214 - TaMarion Johnson - DE - 1
.8189 - Vincent Calhoun - OG - 4 (Missippi State, Memphis, East Carolina)
.8037 - Ko Kieft - TE - 1
.8025 - DeMarcus Williams - WR - 1
.7933 - Donnell Greene - OT - 2

========================================
2017 CLASS - P.J. Fleck (TRANSITION)
========================================

MN Recruits
.8857 - Blaise Andries - OT - 21 (Penn State, Oklahoma, Florida)
.8422 - Eric Abojei - OT, OG - 2
.8341 - Dominik London - RB - 1
.8247 - Boye Mafe - DE - 2
.8154 - Grant Ryerse - K - 3
.8141 - Nathan Bursch - TE - 1


OOS Recruits
.8664 - Kendarian Handy-Holly - S - 12 (Florida, Louisville, Miami)
.8528 - Demetrius Douglas - WR - 5 (Notre Dame, Oregon, Vanderbilt)
.8502 - Adam Beck - CB, S - 8 (Houston, Missippi State, Texas Tech)
.8499 - Chris Autman-Bell - WR - 1
.8471 - Jacob Paulson - TE - 6 (Louisville, Pittsburgh, Cincinnatti)
.8412 - John Michael Schmitz - OG, C - 2
.8406 - Malcolm Robinson - OG, DT - 4 (Boston College, Purdue, Iowa State)
.8395 - Mohamed Ibrahim - RB - 4 (Iowa, Temple, Kentucky)
.8375 - Tanner Morgan - QB - 4 (Louisville, Cincinnati, Wake Forest)
.8355 - Justus Harris - CB - 4 (Cincinnati, Rutgers, Vanderbilt)
.8341 - Reyondous Estes - ATH - 3
.8303 - Nate Umlor - DE - 2
.8281 - Harrison Van Dyne - WR - 3
.8267 - Royal Silver - DT - 3
.8224 - Trenton Guthrie - LB - 1
.8221 - Esezi Otomewo - DE - 6 (Washington State, Illinois, Purdue)
.8216 - Kyle Sassack - OT - 1
.8142 - Neil McLaurin - QB - 1
.8128 - Ben Davis - OT - 1
.8106 - Noah Hickcox - DT - 1
.7858 - Austin Schirck - DT - 1

========================================
2018 CLASS - P.J. Fleck (AS OF JUNE 24th)
========================================

MN Recruits
.8484 - Benjamin Sapp III - CB - 23 (Clemson, Alabama, tOSU)
.8447 - Logan Richter - DT - 1
.8383 - Brevyn Spann-Ford - TE, WR - 4 (West Virginia, Missouri, Iowa State)
.8204 - Josh Aune - ATH - 1
.8136 - Nathan Boe - C - 1

OOS Recruits
.8681 - Elijah Teague - DT - 22 (Penn State, Oklahoma, Wisconsin)
.8616 - Brennan Armstrong - QB - 6 (North Carolina, Cincinatti, Rutgers)
.8616 - Terell Smith - CB - 12 (Florida, Michigan State, West Virginia)
.8575 - Jornell Manns - WR - 6 (Penn State, Wisconsin, West Virginia)
.8512 - Rashod Bateman - WR - 2
.8488 - Abi Okonji - DE - 10 (Michigan State, Mississippi State, Kansas State)
.8479 - Austin Beier - OG, C - 5 (Northwestern, Cincinnatti, Boston College)
.8446 - Tyrik Henderson - CB - 10 (Iowa, Temple, Missouri)
.8405 - Thomas Rush - LB, RB - 1
.8394 - Erik Gibson - WR - 1
.8348 - Mayan Ahanotu - DE, DT - 19 (Oklahoma, Michigan State, Mississippi State)
.8281 - Bryce Williams - RB - 3
.8180 - Shamaur McDowell - CB - 7 (Washington State, N.C. State, Cincinnati)
.8174 - Mariano Sori-Marin - LB - 1

========================================
That's a long post. Is there a way to spoiler the data sections of each year?
 


So you'd agree, Fleck is far and away the best coach Gopher football has had in the last 50 years? Also, sad that you would disparage Kill and Claeys that way, they did a tremendous amount for this program!


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Lord. I'm excited to have PJF as coach and think he will be successful, but can we let him coach at least one game here before we label him " far and away the best coach Gopher football has had in the last 50 years"?
Think of how ridiculous that statement is to make right now.


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I'm 61 years old. The last time the Gophers tied for the B1G title I was 12. At times, I have just given up any hope of seeing the Gophers have a relevant program. Is Fleck the guy who can pull off that feat? I don't know. But I'm willing to see what happens.

And I wouldn't say I despise Fleck. I just think he's a BS artist. Now, being a BS artist is not the worst thing in the world, because most BS artists know they're slinging BS. Some very successful FB coaches have also been BS artists. But Fleck strikes me as the worst kind of BS artist - the kind who actually believes his own BS. And, as I said, Fleck isn't doing anything new or unique in college sports - he just presents it as if it was new or unique.

Again, as I said before, this whole "culture" thing is BS. "Culture" is now a magic word that means anything you want it to mean. For Josh and Johnny, yes, I understand the general meaning of the word. But for FB, I would say the word "philosophy" is a better fit. Different teams have different philosophies, encompassing the style of play, approach to recruiting, etc.
certainly there are programs that have their own distinct philosophies. But "culture," - it seems to mean something different from day to day. If Fleck said something like, "This is the way we do things at MN," I have no problem with that. But calling everything "culture" is just too cute by half. "culture" is lipstick on a pig. It's precisely why Fleck rubs me the wrong way.

And a final question - for everyone who disagrees with me, what about my statement that the Program is greater than the coach. Agree, disagree, don't understand?

I didn't particularly like Jerry Kill, I didn't particularly care for his schtick. Tracy Claeys was one of the very few head football coaches who appeared to not have a schtick. Glen Mason was the worst kind of arrogant... the guy who had nothing to be arrogant about. He was the guy who acted like he was great while going 32-48 in conference play over a decade. Tim Brewster had his schtick and he got people excited until his first game...and then again when his team made a dramatic turnaround in year 2, but then has been ripped worse than anyone I can remember after his teams started losing again. Somehow, the late Jim Wacker is remembered much more fondly than Tim Brewster.

It's obviously up to you, but I don't think you should care what coaches schtick is, you should just care whether it works or not. If in three or four years, PJ has this program actually winning meaningful games, then it shouldn't matter how man "HowPhers" or "Elites" or "our culture" he uses...it should just matter that it is working. Are you helping or hurting the potential success of the program by frequently stating how much you dislike the head coach? We hired a guy who was immensely successful at Western Michigan and has already successfully built somewhat of a brand for himself that has lead to more exposure for the University of Minnesota football team (and less talk about last years incident) in the National press. Even if you maintain your opinion that he's a BS artist, I hope you acknowledge that the guy works his ass off.
 

It's obviously up to you, but I don't think you should care what coaches schtick is, you should just care whether it works or not. If in three or four years, PJ has this program actually winning meaningful games, then it shouldn't matter how man "HowPhers" or "Elites" or "our culture" he uses...it should just matter that it is working. Are you helping or hurting the potential success of the program by frequently stating how much you dislike the head coach? We hired a guy who was immensely successful at Western Michigan and has already successfully built somewhat of a brand for himself that has lead to more exposure for the University of Minnesota football team (and less talk about last years incident) in the National press. Even if you maintain your opinion that he's a BS artist, I hope you acknowledge that the guy works his ass off.

To be fair, I think SONs point is that what he feels about the sctick doesn't matter and the Gophers winning is all he cares about.
Also, stating you don't like a head coach on GH does not hurt the future success of the program anymore than saying you like him helps the future success of the program. Are you kidding me? Does anyone actually believe the meaningless chatter we have on this board to pass time has an impact on the success of the program? If so, they need to search harder for meaning in their life.


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To be fair, I think SONs point is that what he feels about the sctick doesn't matter and the Gophers winning is all he cares about.
Also, stating you don't like a head coach on GH does not hurt the future success of the program anymore than saying you like him helps the future success of the program. Are you kidding me? Does anyone actually believe the meaningless chatter we have on this board to pass time has an impact on the success of the program? If so, they need to search harder for meaning in their life.

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Meaningless? OMG, the end of the world
 



===========================
2011-18 CLASS COMPARISON
===========================

========================================
That's a long post. Is there a way to spoiler the data sections of each year?

That's a whole lot of info and thanks for it. Three things come to mind right away:

1. Stars are really very subjective. I mainly look at Rivals, Scout and/or ESPN. Greatly doubt there are anywhere near that number of "1 Star" prospects there.

(Rivals, Scout, ESPN, 247: Star rating systems explained) https://www.cougcenter.com/wsu-foot...n-247-star-rating-system-national-signing-day

2. There were many names that didn't seem to make any impact. Always makes me wonder why so many hi 3 even some low 4, star guys head to schools like tOSU, ALA, FSU, OR etc. when they know the chances of playing are pretty slim. Seems like a whole lot of players want to wear a ring, get a Conference Championship and a shot at a National Title whether they ever make the field at all. And yes, maybe many of them are delusional enough to think they can beat out guys already there.

3. Always brings back the "stars don't matter" discussion. They certainly do at the 4-5 star level, but even there, injuries and playing against guys at a higher level really makes now wonder why we spend as much time debating them in the first place.
 

For something that is meaningless, you sure do a @#$%^ of a lot of it
 

Also, stating you don't like a head coach on GH does not hurt the future success of the program anymore than saying you like him helps the future success of the program. Are you kidding me? Does anyone actually believe the meaningless chatter we have on this board to pass time has an impact on the success of the program? If so, they need to search harder for meaning in their life.

You are wrong Spoofin...#gopherholelivesmatter
 

For something that is meaningless, you sure do a @#$%^ of a lot of it

Yep. I find it fun to post on GH. Never thought for a second that I was having an impact on the success of the program. What an absurd thought.


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I'll state the obvious. It's June. Long ways to go still. Guys will decommit and we will get new commits.

Alabama is currently ranked 66th will four recruits. (Three of those are 4 stars)
I see Iowa also signed three 4 stars(should read commitments). Common PJF.
 


So you'd agree, Fleck is far and away the best coach Gopher football has had in the last 50 years? Also, sad that you would disparage Kill and Claeys that way, they did a tremendous amount for this program!


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Clunky pivot, work on it, Tool. Work on your sarcasm as well, it's amateur at best. Fleck has yet to coach a game for the U.
 


I didn't particularly like Jerry Kill, I didn't particularly care for his schtick. Tracy Claeys was one of the very few head football coaches who appeared to not have a schtick. Glen Mason was the worst kind of arrogant... the guy who had nothing to be arrogant about. He was the guy who acted like he was great while going 32-48 in conference play over a decade. Tim Brewster had his schtick and he got people excited until his first game...and then again when his team made a dramatic turnaround in year 2, but then has been ripped worse than anyone I can remember after his teams started losing again. Somehow, the late Jim Wacker is remembered much more fondly than Tim Brewster.

It's obviously up to you, but I don't think you should care what coaches schtick is, you should just care whether it works or not. If in three or four years, PJ has this program actually winning meaningful games, then it shouldn't matter how man "HowPhers" or "Elites" or "our culture" he uses...it should just matter that it is working. Are you helping or hurting the potential success of the program by frequently stating how much you dislike the head coach? We hired a guy who was immensely successful at Western Michigan and has already successfully built somewhat of a brand for himself that has lead to more exposure for the University of Minnesota football team (and less talk about last years incident) in the National press. Even if you maintain your opinion that he's a BS artist, I hope you acknowledge that the guy works his ass off.

Pretty sure he said he won't care if Fleck wins.
 









That's part of your post Einstein. Calling yourself elite is, well, naively self-absorbed.

It's a part of all my posts so I guess you randomly bringing it up didn't make any sense. I don't think I'm elite but I think both of those honors are definitely elite!
 

Looks like I started another pissing match.


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