All Things Ben Carlson Recruitment Thread (Class of 2020) UPDATED: Commits to UW

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alchemy2u said:
I can understand kids maybe wanting to play someplace else, but intentionally picking the biggest rival and most hated school is not the same. I know you have a lot of experience with kids picking schools, but don't under estimate the feeling's that a kid has for where they grew up. It can be quite emotional to have your home turn on you. For what, being a "rent a player" for a school that got "all world, all hype" Ethan Happ onto a pro team in Greece? If you are going to jump ship, then jump ship and go all of the way. Going to Wisconsin or Iowa is not going to change your career path!
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I have known kids looking at options like this because they don’t want to stay at home, but still want to be close to home. There are a lot of kids looking at Madison simply because of reciprocity and it’s not staying home. Basketball players aren’t really any different than other kids - many just want to try something different.


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CPTMidnight said:
Play for the home team and the hometown fans will love you for it. Play for the rival and they will generally hate you for it. It is great to think that fans would be dispassionate about all decisions and coddle these young men but not reality. Better to tell them to cowboy up, make the decision, and live with the consequences. Any coach that you pick might be here next year, or might be cheating on his wife and flying his mistress around the country on the Badgers dime and getting fired... Ya just never know.

Also a benefit of playing for the home team is:
You might play for the gophers, get to play in front of friends and family, get a degree, become a big name locally, leverage it for a nice starting position at a local law firm, end up running the firm and retiring as a well known local success story (this is my Business Attorney's story and he retired last year). Go to Iowa, well... you could have a nice career as a State Farm agent in Des Moines which is not a bad second prize - good people down there.

(You Minnesota recruits really want to win a national title? Get together with other Minnesota kids to create a Fab5 type team right here. It will be your easiest path. Picking Blueblood teams are a crapshoot and getting sold on blueblood pretenders (like Wisc) make it zero chance. )
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What consequences ? Several Minnesota kids picked UW,got a conference title, a degree and awesome connections for life. Put together a fab 5, that team did not even win a conference title or a national title. I am thrilled when they make their choice no matter where that ease. It means they have made the choice they thought was best for them. They were the ones doing the work. Iam not offended in knowing that there are better coaches, better programs, better schools and more beautiful places. Just reality and that players make the choice. What consequences did the Jones boys suffer ? What consequences for LEUER ? How about Deandre Hunter leaving Pennsylvania for UVA or Guy leaving Indiana. My sons made choices on what they thought was the coach they wanted to play for at the school they wanted to go to. What former Gopher hoops player got some huge job here because he stayed home ? I just think every kid should pick what they want, if that is here great. This are huge decisions for players and some families. Most of these kids are very smart about what kind of a coach someone is. After decades of taking to players and parents, when asked i tell them. This is about the kids. Hell, i advised a kid who had a offer from Iowa but his priority was immediate playing time and he would not have received that anywhere in the Big 10 and so i advised him to go play at Mankato State. He started there for 4 years. It is different for every kid. I could be wrong on Carlson but i will wager anyone a large sum as they are very savvy about coaches. When someone really wants to come here they have the chance to commit early. Someone said there are only 30 2020 kids off the board but the truth is it is nearing 75.
 

builtbadgers said:
What consequences ? Several Minnesota kids picked UW,got a conference title, a degree and awesome connections for life. Put together a fab 5, that team did not even win a conference title or a national title. I am thrilled when they make their choice no matter where that ease. It means they have made the choice they thought was best for them. They were the ones doing the work. Iam not offended in knowing that there are better coaches, better programs, better schools and more beautiful places. Just reality and that players make the choice. What consequences did the Jones boys suffer ? What consequences for LEUER ? How about Deandre Hunter leaving Pennsylvania for UVA or Guy leaving Indiana. My sons made choices on what they thought was the coach they wanted to play for at the school they wanted to go to. What former Gopher hoops player got some huge job here because he stayed home ? I just think every kid should pick what they want, if that is here great. This are huge decisions for players and some families. Most of these kids are very smart about what kind of a coach someone is. After decades of taking to players and parents, when asked i tell them. This is about the kids. Hell, i advised a kid who had a offer from Iowa but his priority was immediate playing time and he would not have received that anywhere in the Big 10 and so i advised him to go play at Mankato State. He started there for 4 years. It is different for every kid. I could be wrong on Carlson but i will wager anyone a large sum as they are very savvy about coaches. When someone really wants to come here they have the chance to commit early. Someone said there are only 30 2020 kids off the board but the truth is it is nearing 75.
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This^^^

At the end of the day it is just a kid making a decision on where they want to go to college and continue their basketball career. I totally get the kids that want to go somewhere else, try something new, and go to maybe a more storied, successful, or trendy program. Nothing wrong with that, they've earned that right. They aren't choosing a school to try to appease fans or an entire state, they are making a personal decision.
 

Exactly . I suppose we all have a bias. My bias is that i have lived all over the place and have enjoyed the diverse experiences. I love Minnesota. We have kept a cabin-home here for several generations but having lived in Carmel California for so long, that is home. I am without borders. I enjoy excellence where ever it is. When the best math students pick MIT i understand. When hockey players from somewhere else to the U then i support them.
 

Many of us have also traveled all around and lived other places. We are not still sitting on the turnip truck.

I just think that there is too much of a “greener grass” mindset among the fanbase and younger players. The U will get good players and be successful. I just think that many local players will miss out on how special it is representing your home state instead of playing for a team that never heard of you and just plugs you into the roster.


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The thing that annoys me about the "some kids just want to leave home" rationale/excuse is that it literally is never the other way around. Some kids really would rather stay home and have their friends and family watch them play, they like the comfort of home, they have a gf they don't want to leave, they have a relative or relatives that couldn't travel to games elsewhere due to health or economic reasons, etc etc. Nobody ever gives Pitino (or Tubby or Monson) less credit for landing the kids that just wanted to stay home. Of course it's perfectly valid that some kids just want to leave home, but if you give a pass for losing those kids in recruiting then you also have to give less credit for keeping the kids who actively wanted to stay home. It's also easy to say you wanted to try something new (or on the flip side when you stay home say great things about just wanting to be home) because they are publicly acceptable reasons that don't burn any bridges or create any controversy. The vast majority of us will never know if Zeke left for Arizona to experience something different or he didn't like something about the Minnesota program just like the vast majority of us will never know if Daniel chose to be a Gopher because he really wanted to play in the Minnesota program or just really wanted to play in his home state. We can really only judge the results: are we getting an acceptable percentage of the local kids?

Then you have the issue of why is it a one way street with talented basketball players from Minnesota with Gopher offers going to Wisconsin or Marquette while the opposite has not been true? There are just as many kids looking to leave Wisconsin as there are Minnesota.
 

alchemy2u said:
Many of us have also traveled all around and lived other places. We are not still sitting on the turnip truck.

I just think that there is too much of a “greener grass” mindset among the fanbase and younger players. The U will get good players and be successful. I just think that many local players will miss out on how special it is representing your home state instead of playing for a team that never heard of you and just plugs you into the roster.


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Fan bases all over the country have heard of players from all over the country. Not sure what just plugs you on to the roster means. Most gopher fans have not seen the high school kids in person. I just do not think that many kids think that much of the home state school the way you do. They travel all over, they meet better coaches, have offers from great schools. Why do you think there is too much of a grass is greener mindset ? What if for them it is greener ? What if they know that they have a offer from a far better coach, someone cool, someone they connect with, better climate, better, academics, prettier gals and on and on. They may see the U differently then you. They are the ones that worked to have the choices and you want them to pick what you like best. The home fan base welcomed IW here far more than they did Hurt. And it still comes down to what coach you want to play for out of the best choices you have.
 

alchemy2u said:
Many of us have also traveled all around and lived other places. We are not still sitting on the turnip truck.

I just think that there is too much of a “greener grass” mindset among the fanbase and younger players. The U will get good players and be successful. I just think that many local players will miss out on how special it is representing your home state instead of playing for a team that never heard of you and just plugs you into the roster.


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To be clear, we do get good players and coming here is a excellent choice. I am sharing with you some of the things that some players and their families have said. You say we will be successful. That will always be subject for who defines what success is.
 

builtbadgers said:
To be clear, we do get good players and coming here is a excellent choice. I am sharing with you some of the things that some players and their families have said. You say we will be successful. That will always be subject for who defines what success is.
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And we know that your definition of success for Mn has not been achieved.
 



BarnBurner said:
And we know that your definition of success for Mn has not been achieved.
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Pretty sure each and every fan has their own standard. There are fans on here that think 8-10 or 9-11 is good, 7th place etc.. I do not mock them for it, it is all they need to feel like it was good. There are posts that spell out just making the tourney once in awhile and finishing in the top half is good. Other fans think only final 4's are good for their program.
 

builtbadgers said:
Pretty sure each and every fan has their own standard. There are fans on here that think 8-10 or 9-11 is good, 7th place etc.. I do not mock them for it, it is all they need to feel like it was good. There are posts that spell out just making the tourney once in awhile and finishing in the top half is good. Other fans think only final 4's are good for their program.
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I always try to look at it year by year. I thought last year's team was a middle of the road team and that's what they were. I feel the same this year, maybe if we get lucky we can finish 5th, league is a little down this year. I do think next year we should be a top four team in the league, contending for the league title, but we don't have the goods this year.
We're not always going to contend for a league title, but no reason we can't every three or four years and in between, have years like last year or 16-17

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bemidjigopher said:
I always try to look at it year by year. I thought last year's team was a middle of the road team and that's what they were. I feel the same this year, maybe if we get lucky we can finish 5th, league is a little down this year. I do think next year we should be a top four team in the league, contending for the league title, but we don't have the goods this year.
We're not always going to contend for a league title, but no reason we can't every three or four years and in between, have years like last year or 16-17

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I also look at every year as a new team. Last year was also middle of the year for me. At the end of a year i look at a coaches full body of work over his entire stay. Then i renew hope for the coming season to be special. What i am looking for is top 30 in both defense and offensive efficiency. That will result in a top 4 conference finish well above .500. I just want to see a 14-6,15-5 season just once in 7 years.
 

builtbadgers said:
I also look at every year as a new team. Last year was also middle of the year for me. At the end of a year i look at a coaches full body of work over his entire stay. Then i renew hope for the coming season to be special. What i am looking for is top 30 in both defense and offensive efficiency. That will result in a top 4 conference finish well above .500. I just want to see a 14-6,15-5 season just once in 7 years.
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I hear ya I was ten in 97 and that was the team that really hooked me, that maybe once in a lifetime unfortunately, but I think with the current roster and a good class we can have a team starting next year, put together a string of years like that together. I believe we are close and this recruiting class and this season will define whether or not Pitino is a guy to get us there

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builtbadgers said:
What consequences ? Several Minnesota kids picked UW,got a conference title, a degree and awesome connections for life. Put together a fab 5, that team did not even win a conference title or a national title. I am thrilled when they make their choice no matter where that ease. It means they have made the choice they thought was best for them. They were the ones doing the work. Iam not offended in knowing that there are better coaches, better programs, better schools and more beautiful places. Just reality and that players make the choice. What consequences did the Jones boys suffer ? What consequences for LEUER ? How about Deandre Hunter leaving Pennsylvania for UVA or Guy leaving Indiana. My sons made choices on what they thought was the coach they wanted to play for at the school they wanted to go to. What former Gopher hoops player got some huge job here because he stayed home ? I just think every kid should pick what they want, if that is here great. This are huge decisions for players and some families. Most of these kids are very smart about what kind of a coach someone is. After decades of taking to players and parents, when asked i tell them. This is about the kids. Hell, i advised a kid who had a offer from Iowa but his priority was immediate playing time and he would not have received that anywhere in the Big 10 and so i advised him to go play at Mankato State. He started there for 4 years. It is different for every kid. I could be wrong on Carlson but i will wager anyone a large sum as they are very savvy about coaches. When someone really wants to come here they have the chance to commit early. Someone said there are only 30 2020 kids off the board but the truth is it is nearing 75.
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Consequences are a result of a complex decision with many nuanced benefits and drawbacks... some are intended and some are unintended consequences. Are we even having the same conversation here. I am a little puzzled.

Fab 5 is still considered by many to be the greatest recruiting class of all time. No Titles? OK big shooter whatever you say. (advice from Built - dont get together with other good players and accomplish what the fab5 guys did- that would suck.)

I must have been hitting pretty close to home on that shot at Bo Ryan for you to get all riled up like that... I bet the parents of kids that played for Bo Ryan wonder what kind of mentorship ol lyin Bo could offer with his mistriss in tow - great example that guy. I bet there was some questions and regret by the families involved. Course... you were just happy that the kid made a decision it seems.
 

Never said that what the fab 5 accomplished sucked, just said that in response to keeping the best guys at home does not mean even being in competition. Those players on that team worked out. Let me know when we are even close to getting 5 kids like that. Also, i never liked Bo Ryan as a person, noted what a great situation he inherited and that he had a great staff. How he handled himself does leave a bad taste in some peoples mouth, including me. That is not any different than how some parents of recruits here have responded to some of the character issues we have had here. All for going for good players with character that win big, huge fan of a team that does that , including winning multiple conference titles and the national title. Never said do not get great players. Stick to facts, including what happened to that fab 5 group.
 

Built ‘s favorite is “never said ........”

You never fail to mention “character issues” at Mn
 

BarnBurner said:
Built ‘s favorite is “never said ........”

You never fail to mention “character issues” at Mn
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You honestly posted that i never fail to mention character issues, i have hundreds of posts where it is not mentioned. I offer my opinion on Gopher and college basketball related issues. Your just taking a shot at me. Offer insights, opinions on topics on the board.
 

Could we maybe stop the bickering s*** posting out of threads like this? Makes it very hard to keep up with recruiting information with people taking pot shots at one another.
 

This thread is basically dead anyway, 99% Carlson is not committing here. There is always a chance though.
 

mplarson7 said:
Could we maybe stop the bickering s*** posting out of threads like this? Makes it very hard to keep up with recruiting information with people taking pot shots at one another.
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Apologize for my comments that are off topic.
 

GopherBlood666 said:
This thread is basically dead anyway, 99% Carlson is not committing here. There is always a chance though.
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Your right on Carlson. Obvious where they stand on the Gopher offer. He has one more open official that he will hope to use.
 

Xavier Musketeers Host 2020 4-Star Ben Carlson For Official Visit

Ben Carlson, a four-star prospect out of the 2020 college basketball recruiting class, began a visit with the Xavier Musketeers on Friday. The visit, it is certainly worth noting, was official in capacity.

n For Official Visit

Mandatory Credit: Vincent Carchietta-USA TODAY Sports
Ben Carlson, a four-star prospect out of the 2020 college basketball recruiting class, began a visit with the Xavier Musketeers on Friday. The visit, it is certainly worth noting, was official in capacity.



This news was relayed to the masses by numerous reports, including one from Stockrisers and Rivals reporter Jake Weingarten, who also mentioned the young man visited with the Minnesota Golden Gophers the day before.

The young man has already had some visits with programs, including stops with the Ohio State Buckeyes and Indiana Hoosiers. Given the hype surrounding Carlson, it’s not all that shocking big boy programs are attempting to lure him to their schools.

https://cbbtoday.com/now/xavier-musketeers-host-2020-4-star-ben-carlson-for-official-visit/

Go Gophers!!
 

GopherBlood666 said:
This thread is basically dead anyway, 99% Carlson is not committing here. There is always a chance though.
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They did impress him quite a bit Thursday night. I still think Stanford is the favorite but if a couple of their other big targets commit before Carlson does then we have a chance.
 

builtbadgers said:
You honestly posted that i never fail to mention character issues, i have hundreds of posts where it is not mentioned. I offer my opinion on Gopher and college basketball related issues. Your just taking a shot at me. Offer insights, opinions on topics on the board.
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The vast majority of your posts refer to past recruits character issues and that Pitino recruits had character guys. Never was a poor choice of words. No shots.

You are taking shots at Pitino for past recruits. Nice work.
 

BarnBurner said:
The vast majority of your posts refer to past recruits character issues and that Pitino recruits had character guys. Never was a poor choice of words. No shots.

You are taking shots at Pitino for past recruits. Nice work.
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I hate to continue on this tangent, but as you pointed out, Build keeps referring to the same old couple of past recruits from years ago when Pitino reached for players (he basically did a partial Brewster and brought in some higher rated recruits that had issues). The BIG PROBLEM that I have is that he keeps bringing it up which infers that the current recruits are of low character! He knows, and has admitted, that the last several years of Pitino recruits are very good people with high character. There is no reason to drag the program, the coach or the current players through the mud by constantly bringing up some errors in the distant past. It was part of "his on the job" training and it will not happen again. Again, I have respect for you Built, but please start to judge the program on its current merits and not be clouded by "past learning mistakes". I fully expect built to dish out some modest praise for Pitino when he makes the tourney again this year and is in running for B1G coach of the year. (the eternal optimist::rolleyes:).
 

alchemy2u said:
I hate to continue on this tangent, but as you pointed out, Build keeps referring to the same old couple of past recruits from years ago when Pitino reached for players (he basically did a partial Brewster and brought in some higher rated recruits that had issues). The BIG PROBLEM that I have is that he keeps bringing it up which infers that the current recruits are of low character! He knows, and has admitted, that the last several years of Pitino recruits are very good people with high character. There is no reason to drag the program, the coach or the current players through the mud by constantly bringing up some errors in the distant past. It was part of "his on the job" training and it will not happen again. Again, I have respect for you Built, but please start to judge the program on its current merits and not be clouded by "past learning mistakes". I fully expect built to dish out some modest praise for Pitino when he makes the tourney again this year and is in running for B1G coach of the year. (the eternal optimist::rolleyes:).
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Agreed. That was my point.
 

alchemy2u said:
I hate to continue on this tangent, but as you pointed out, Build keeps referring to the same old couple of past recruits from years ago when Pitino reached for players (he basically did a partial Brewster and brought in some higher rated recruits that had issues). The BIG PROBLEM that I have is that he keeps bringing it up which infers that the current recruits are of low character! He knows, and has admitted, that the last several years of Pitino recruits are very good people with high character. There is no reason to drag the program, the coach or the current players through the mud by constantly bringing up some errors in the distant past. It was part of "his on the job" training and it will not happen again. Again, I have respect for you Built, but please start to judge the program on its current merits and not be clouded by "past learning mistakes". I fully expect built to dish out some modest praise for Pitino when he makes the tourney again this year and is in running for B1G coach of the year. (the eternal optimist::rolleyes:).
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Never inferred that current recruits are low character and it is not true that all low character kids are in the distant past. I simply do not look at anything to do with Gopher hoops with Maroon tinted glasses. Some posters elevate not only every recruit we get as highly sought after and see ANY of Pitinos mistakes as a result of being young and pretend he is one of the best coaches around. There are people that think he is funny, charismatic, smart as they come, got the most out of every team. They are entitled their opinion. I have mine. I know what some recruits and their families have said. I know what i have seen. I call it like i see it and praise things i think he has done well and point out what i think he has done poorly. Each fan is entitled to their own opinion and evaluation of recruiting and coaching and culture and standards for winning and losing. Same on players. We had posters who thought IW was going to be a superstar without any insight to where his game was at. They went off You Tube videos ! We have fans who thought that Romeo Langford dominated the conference, that is fine but when i look at how low his efficiency was, his team's W-L record i would not call it dominating. It is called a difference of opinion. No big deal. Coaching staffs themselves have different opinions on recruits during recruiting meetings . Different opinions on advance scouting.
 

Carlson comes here only if the other schools get kids to commit before Carlson does. We are not his Plan A, B, or C.
 


BarnBurner said:
Built ‘s favorite is “never said ........”

You never fail to mention “character issues” at Mn
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There is something really wrong with you. And I am not saying that to be mean, but more that it is concerning. You seem to fixate on people you disagree with and then harass them without really having any substance to yourself or own ideas. It is a disturbing character trait and tendency that I saw many times as a Public Defender. I am guessing you probably exhibit this in your everyday life as well. If you have a friend or loved one, it may be good to talk them about it. It is only going to end in a bad place.
 

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