Gophers football: Changes to Pro Day leaves small-school prospects in limbo

Clearly it doesn't mean that. Maybe there are 4-5 of us that think it could/should.


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Are you a Gophers fan? You sure seem to hate the new coaches. Maybe time to support a different team? Rutgers or Northeast Kansas State would be a good place to look for a new favorite. Better than rooting for them to fail right?
 

Are you a Gophers fan? You sure seem to hate the new coaches. Maybe time to support a different team? Rutgers or Northeast Kansas State would be a good place to look for a new favorite. Better than rooting for them to fail right?

Trying to start another pissing match I see. No thanks, I'll pass.


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Trying to start another pissing match I see. No thanks, I'll pass.


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Just wondering why you want the Gopher football team to fail is all. Carry on trolling every thread as you please!
 

I really don't have a strong opinion about this. I do wish he would have let the teams send their kids this year then told them this would be the last year. To make the change that late didn't give the other schools a chance to make other arrangements.

Regardless, people are assuming Fleck made this decision in a vacuum. He may have already been told by scouts that they didn't like coming to this type of pro day with all these other kids from small schools that had close to zero chance of making a mini-camp, let alone a team. He might have been told that he is hurting the chances of his players by having other teams like that at the event.

Either way, I don't think the U having a great or bad relationship with the DII and DIII teams in this state really makes a bit of difference. If they're losing kids to those schools there are bigger problems, and it's not like they've been getting kids transferring up from those schools. Sure, I'd love everyone to get along, but I doubt this affects the U one bit.
Agree. And regarding Slab's implication of selfishness, I don't think anyone is saying that they have an issue with allowing a few recognized prospects from local schools to join the pro day. But when you add 30+ players, it is a significantly more tedious process.
I have attended another D1 school's pro day. They permitted a few outside players from smaller local schools. There were significant differences in the operational aspects b/c of the reduced numbers of the athletes. First, the sequence of events was much more logical from a testing aspect. I have a background in sports strength and conditioning. Sequencing tests in an order from least fatiguing to more fatiguing is important to reliable testing. For example, doing the bench press test, vertical jump, and broad jump first makes the most sense. Bench fatigues the upper body, but doesn't impact running and agility tests that follow. The two jump tests produce less lower body and general fatigue than running and agility tests that logically follow.
B/c of the large numbers at the Gopher pro day in 2016, the 40 was done first and used as a cut test. Two hours later and apparently attempting to make up for lost time, other tests were done in a shot gun start format (like a golf tournament). For most testing, athletes started at a test station, and rotated when everyone at all stations had finished. Scouts were scattered all over. After measureable testing was done, all positions went to different areas of the field for position skill drills that occurred simultaneously. Again, in order to make up for lost time. IMO, DeVondre Campbell was the athlete that most scouts were watching and therefore, other Gopher athletes, got less attention.
At the other pro day I attended, it was well organized, sequenced, and all scouts watched each test and drill of every athlete participating. IMO, this was due to the limited numbers of athletes that were allowed to participate.
So when Fleck says he's looking at it from the NFL scout perspective, the old Gopher pro day format sucked.
 

I think everyone on here is. Pro days matter very little to scouts.
I have to disagree with this. Scouts will certainly put more weight on game film, probably 80-90% of the evaluation. But, 10-20% of physical evaluation is going to come from the pro day. If it didn't matter to scouts, there wouldn't be 30+ scouts there.
As Pompous E's ESPN1500 article pointed out, college coaches make mistakes in evaluating and coaching players. Some players aren't suited for a particular scheme or some aren't highlighted in a particular scheme. Scouts are doing their due diligence and pro days are a significant way for them to do that.
 


I just don't seen any harm in letting a handful of kids attend a Pro Day at the U of M. at most, it might make the day last a little longer. Shoot, if you want, I'll stipulate that the Gopher players get to go first, and the non-Gophers have to wait until the end of the day. But, to me, not allowing those other players - after they have been allowed in the past - makes Fleck and the Gophers look a little petty.

Do you suppose Coach Fleck is the best person to choose which players should make up this handful? Or should someone with the Vikings decide? Fleck has already stated that he will welcome any players the Vikings want.

The Vikings have plenty of scouts and Fleck has no interest in following those players after they start college elsewhere. Let the Vikings decide who is in and who is out.
 

I really don't have a strong opinion about this. I do wish he would have let the teams send their kids this year then told them this would be the last year. To make the change that late didn't give the other schools a chance to make other arrangements.

Regardless, people are assuming Fleck made this decision in a vacuum. He may have already been told by scouts that they didn't like coming to this type of pro day with all these other kids from small schools that had close to zero chance of making a mini-camp, let alone a team. He might have been told that he is hurting the chances of his players by having other teams like that at the event.

Either way, I don't think the U having a great or bad relationship with the DII and DIII teams in this state really makes a bit of difference
. If they're losing kids to those schools there are bigger problems, and it's not like they've been getting kids transferring up from those schools. Sure, I'd love everyone to get along, but I doubt this affects the U one bit.

Agree with the bolded, and to some extent I would expect that relationship to be adversarial as we should be trying to get some of those DII scholarship players to agree to walk on at the U of MN and an exposure to things like a U only pro day is one of the carrots you hold out in front of those kids to get them to come here to be a walk on and red shirt to be a back up for two years versus starting at Winona as a freshman and getting a full ride.
 

Are you a Gophers fan? You sure seem to hate the new coaches. Maybe time to support a different team? Rutgers or Northeast Kansas State would be a good place to look for a new favorite. Better than rooting for them to fail right?

Being a fan doesn't require cult-like following of every action and word. I don't think anyone has said this is a big deal. I'm genuinely interested to know why he has closed practices, pro days. One poster did state that the format was chaotic but to me that could well be a function of poor organization rather than simply numbers in attendance. Some people have trouble running a garage sale. I know for certain Wisconsin and Iowa State allow small school players and they make it work. I thought I heard NW does. I'm not sure about Iowa or other Big Ten schools.
 

Agree with the bolded, and to some extent I would expect that relationship to be adversarial as we should be trying to get some of those DII scholarship players to agree to walk on at the U of MN and an exposure to things like a U only pro day is one of the carrots you hold out in front of those kids to get them to come here to be a walk on and red shirt to be a back up for two years versus starting at Winona as a freshman and getting a full ride.

It would be borderline negligent, no check that, it would be financial malpractice to advise a player to walk from a full ride or at least a partial scholarship considering the cost of room and board these days. Obviously caveats apply as far as desired major, program quality, etc if someone is a serious student.
 



Being a fan doesn't require cult-like following of every action and word. I don't think anyone has said this is a big deal. I'm genuinely interested to know why he has closed practices, pro days. One poster did state that the format was chaotic but to me that could well be a function of poor organization rather than simply numbers in attendance. Some people have trouble running a garage sale. I know for certain Wisconsin and Iowa State allow small school players and they make it work. I thought I heard NW does. I'm not sure about Iowa or other Big Ten schools.
Iowa does not allow any non-Hawkeye players. I've heard that Iowa State, Wisconsin, and NW do, but it is mostly by NFL request if I'm not mistaken. Just a few guys.
 

Why wasn't Jack Nelson invited then? Clearly some teams had interest.
 

BTW off topic but going back to Thielen I just saw he signed a 3 yr 17 MM contract in March. I may need to start following the Vikes again (have followed NFL from afar with morbid fascination since NFCCG 2010) as this is the type of gritty athlete it's easy to cheer for.
 

Don't understand what the issue is with having players from the small schools in MN send a few players to the U of M Pro Day.
Don't think it should be an open invitation for any college graduate to attend the day, it should be by invitation from an NFL team.
Can't be more than a handful of players who the NFL would want to look at outside of the Gopher players.
PJ made a mistake in not allowing any of them to attend last year. Hope he corrects it going forward.
 



Don't understand what the issue is with having players from the small schools in MN send a few players to the U of M Pro Day.
Don't think it should be an open invitation for any college graduate to attend the day, it should be by invitation from an NFL team.
Can't be more than a handful of players who the NFL would want to look at outside of the Gopher players.
PJ made a mistake in not allowing any of them to attend last year. Hope he corrects it going forward.

Why is it a mistake and how does this mistake negatively effect the Gophers?
 

Don't think it should be an open invitation for any college graduate to attend the day, it should be by invitation from an NFL team.
Can't be more than a handful of players who the NFL would want to look at outside of the Gopher players.

This right here is the entire issue.

Essentially, my understanding of the old system was that it was an open invitation......you just had to pay your way (which I'm guessing is the case, regardless). It was more than just a handful of players. Someone already said it was more like 30.

Fleck closing it this year will hopefully reset the system and give them time to come to an agreement, so that the top players at the smaller schools can be spotlighted but the Pro Day isn't turned into a circus. It was said that the 40 was essentially used as a cut test. If they want to do that, what if they did a cutdown run the night before and the guys who qualified could attend? It would give everyone a chance, but still keep the main event less cluttered.

I like giving the smaller-school players a platform to show if they have what it takes, but there has to be a compromise to make it run smoother. I don't believe the U owes anything to the smaller schools, but they shouldn't destroy whatever relationships were already there. There are other FBS schools that don't invite small-school players, but those schools also aren't the only FBS school in their state. I'm sure there's some type of agreement with one school to make a Pro Day an option somewhere for these kids.
 

JVK, NFL scout logistics would make having a "cutdown run the night before" very difficult unless someone other than scouts were to run it. The NFL Scouts come in late the night before and leave immediately after.
Prior to the Gopher pro day, there was a thread about the pro day and some speculation on the number of pro days that occur across the country. Believe or not, there are around 200 pro days that occur from the week following the NFL Combine to mid-to-late April prior to the draft. NFL teams set up their scouts by region of the country that are supported by the national scouting team, but with 200 pro days in less than 2 months, it's a difficult task to schedule more than a few hours at one location.
 

JVK, NFL scout logistics would make having a "cutdown run the night before" very difficult unless someone other than scouts were to run it. The NFL Scouts come in late the night before and leave immediately after.

Good point. I guess I thought someone from each school "ran" the Pro Days, not the scouts.
 

It would be borderline negligent, no check that, it would be financial malpractice to advise a player to walk from a full ride or at least a partial scholarship considering the cost of room and board these days. Obviously caveats apply as far as desired major, program quality, etc if someone is a serious student.

Happens all the time. Even when the cost of education is burdensome to the families involved. Kids will pass on paid education for the opportunity to play at a higher level. I doubt that there many PWO's on the gopher squad right now that did not have an opportunity to get some financial help (or a full ride) to play at a lower level.
 

Happens all the time. Even when the cost of education is burdensome to the families involved. Kids will pass on paid education for the opportunity to play at a higher level. I doubt that there many PWO's on the gopher squad right now that did not have an opportunity to get some financial help (or a full ride) to play at a lower level.

I know it happens. I'm saying it would be negligent for a responsible adult to steer them in that direction as a) they will likely get more playing time as a scholarship player, b) NFL teams will normally find look at standout players wherever they play, and b) it is the rare high schooler that comprehends student loan payback implications. Then again, many adults don't either.

Obviously some families have the means to easily cover costs, others are interested in attending the
U for other reasons, and other players just want to be Gophers. The "Rudy" factor. Nothing wrong with that as life is full of calculated decisions.
 

I know it happens. I'm saying it would be negligent for a responsible adult to steer them in that direction as a) they will likely get more playing time as a scholarship player, b) NFL teams will normally find look at standout players wherever they play, and b) it is the rare high schooler that comprehends student loan payback implications. Then again, many adults don't either.

Obviously some families have the means to easily cover costs, others are interested in attending the
U for other reasons, and other players just want to be Gophers. The "Rudy" factor. Nothing wrong with that as life is full of calculated decisions.

I agree with all of that. I was just brainstorming ways for these kids to get to participate in the Gophers' pro day if they so desperately wanted to. I would never steer my own child in that direction because I agree that if you have the talent, the NFL will find you.
 

I know it happens. I'm saying it would be negligent for a responsible adult to steer them in that direction as a) they will likely get more playing time as a scholarship player, b) NFL teams will normally find look at standout players wherever they play, and b) it is the rare high schooler that comprehends student loan payback implications. Then again, many adults don't either.

The quality of you PWO's is important to the success of the team. Therefore it's the coaches job to recruit the best PWO's available. It's not negligent to sell yourself and your school as a better value (regardless of cost) to a recruit. There are plenty of situations where I would consider a recruiter acting without integrity. This situation isn't one of them.
 




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