Gophers football: Changes to Pro Day leaves small-school prospects in limbo

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In previous years, small Minnesota football programs would contact the U’s staff about a prospect and the U allowed them to attend. Fleck’s shift left the small-school players without a scheduled alternative.

“I don’t ever want to rely on somebody else to make the decision for us on whether our kids can go,” Keller told the Pioneer Press. “I think we learned a lesson where we got caught in the middle. With the (Gophers) coaching staff change and things happening late, it was the perfect storm of how things could go wrong.

“I’m not blaming anybody; there are other programs in America that do the same thing and don’t open their pro day to other kids. This had just never been the practice there, so it caught us off guard.”

On the Gophers Road Trip this week, Fleck explained that his decision was influenced by his experience in the NFL. He was an un-drafted player who caught on with the 49ers in 2004-05 and was the Buccaneers’ wide receivers coach in 2012.

“You start to see every aspect of things,” Fleck said. “Not just from a college side, you start to see it from an NFL side as well. We are going to do it for the University of Minnesota athletes, and then what we are going to do, upon request from the National Football League, (is add) other people that they want to see. It’s up to them.

“We want to help the National Football League, and we want to help college-student athletes. One thing I will say (with) the NFL is if you are even close, they will request you. If they request them, we will make sure that they are on our campus.”

Instead of throwing passes in front of the majority of the NFL’s 32 teams at the U’s Gibson-Nagurski Football Complex, Nelson and Minnesota Duluth quarterback Drew Bauer worked out in front of three NFL teams at Minnetonka High School’s indoor complex that same afternoon.

http://www.twincities.com/2017/06/0...o-day-leaves-small-school-prospects-in-limbo/

Go Gophers!!
 

As an NSIC fan, I can understand why some of the players and coaches were disappointed by this change. However, there aren't any players I ever believed were super close to an NFL career. Nelson would've been about it. This didn't stop him from getting invited to two different mini-camps, so it's not like NFL teams didn't know about him.

At the same time, going by the rule that "the NFL will request you if you're close," I don't know that someone like Adam Thielen would've been close enough to be invited. But clearly he's been good enough to carve out a pretty good start to his NFL career.

Like the article said, Fleck was kinda in a bad spot having to make a quick decision on something like this. It's something that probably never came up at WMU. But being the only Division I school in the state, I think it's something they should reconsider. With how Fleck wants to connect with alums, having an alum who's also an NSIC head coach gives me some optimism a change could be made.
 

I can see it either way: is it really that big of a deal to have the NSIC kids there or MIAC or any other in-state prospects there? Not really but at the same time, the U doesn't owe those schools or the kids playing there anything. I'm in the middle on this one I guess
 

Something doesn't add up - 25 teams traveled to Winona State to see Jack Nelson. Fleck says he'll allow any player in that NFL teams express interest in. Apparently the team still weren't aware they needed to wire Fleck and save themselves a road trip.

Seems like an unnecessary shot to the foot, again. Closing Pro Day to the press, closing practices, the martyr complex about the pay cut. He didn't really explain why having a few prospects join Pro Day is a major problem. Perhaps it irritates the scouts to have to watch long-shots but I find that hard to believe. Watch cat videos until they finish their drills.

Maybe it's just me, but the U of M is partially funded by all the taxpayers of MN. It's not a private school. If a MN kid, in the judgment of their coach has the chops to take a shot I'd like them to have that shot. It's painless and doesn't cost anyone a thing.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Something doesn't add up - 25 teams traveled to Winona State to see Jack Nelson. Fleck says he'll allow any player in that NFL teams express interest in. Apparently the team still weren't aware they needed to wire Fleck and save themselves a road trip.

Seems like an unnecessary shot to the foot, again. Closing Pro Day to the press, closing practices, the martyr complex about the pay cut. He didn't really explain why having a few prospects join Pro Day is a major problem. Perhaps it irritates the scouts to have to watch long-shots but I find that hard to believe. Watch cat videos until they finish their drills.

Maybe it's just me, but the U of M is partially funded by all the taxpayers of MN. It's not a private school. If a MN kid, in the judgment of their coach has the chops to take a shot I'd like them to have that shot. It's painless and doesn't cost anyone a thing.
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How are the first two and this a shot in the foot?
 


Pompous Elitist said:
He didn't really explain why having a few prospects join Pro Day is a major problem. Perhaps it irritates the scouts to have to watch long-shots but I find that hard to believe. Watch cat videos until they finish their drills.

Maybe it's just me, but the U of M is partially funded by all the taxpayers of MN. It's not a private school. If a MN kid, in the judgment of their coach has the chops to take a shot I'd like them to have that shot. It's painless and doesn't cost anyone a thing.
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You think it's just 2 or 3 kids? I'd guess it's closer to 20-30 that would've been there trying for their shot.
 

joshvanklomp said:
You think it's just 2 or 3 kids? I'd guess it's closer to 20-30 that would've been there trying for their shot.
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Do we know how many came past years? 2-3 seems low, but 20-30 seems high.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 


Are there rules dictating which schools can put on pro-days? If not, these smaller schools should just do their own and if the scouts have interest they will show up.

If you are under-recruited and wind up at these smaller schools and develop into a player who might have a shot at the NFL, I suggest you transfer and become a walk-on at the University of Minnesota.
 



GopherHomer said:
Are there rules dictating which schools can put on pro-days? If not, these smaller schools should just do their own and if the scouts have interest they will show up.

If you are under-recruited and wind up at these smaller schools and develop into a player who might have a shot at the NFL, I suggest you transfer and become a walk-on at the University of Minnesota.
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How well do you understand the eligibility rules? For example, use Theilen.
 

Spoofin said:
Do we know how many came past years? 2-3 seems low, but 20-30 seems high.
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You're right, 20-30 is probably high. I guess I was just thinking about the number of NSIC/MIAC programs in the state, but forgot the rule is a player had to go to HS within a 50-mile radius of the U.....which brings me to another point. Byron is 82 miles from Gibson/Nagurski, so would he even be eligible to attend? Maybe it's something that's often broken, I'm not sure.
 

GopherHomer said:
Are there rules dictating which schools can put on pro-days? If not, these smaller schools should just do their own and if the scouts have interest they will show up.
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No but I'm guessing not many pro teams are eager to send scouts to Bemidji, Marshall, etc., when there are other bigger Pro Days going on around the country. That's a big reason why they let the small school guys often times work out at the bigger school's Pro Day. Like the article said, only 3 NFL teams were at this Pro Day for the smaller school guys. 26 teams were in town that morning for Gophers Pro Day, but just 3 stuck around for the small school guys later that day in Minnetonka (and I'm guessing 1 of the 3 was the Vikings). Which do you think got a better chance of getting a serious look from a team?
 

That DE from Concordia ended up being a 5th round pick as well from 2-4 years ago.
 



Johnnyboy18 said:
How are the first two and this a shot in the foot?
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No press coverage of Pro Day, little fan access to practices, now a news story on how he irritated local players/coaches. Don't get me wrong, these are not close to major issues but they are interesting quirks. He has every right to do it but previous coaches haven't.

Like every coach if he wins nobody will care. If he turns out mediocre teams the little annoyances and quirks add up.

I still don't understand the point of limiting a pro day. He "saw it from the Pro side" but what does that even mean?
 

Pompous Elitist said:
No press coverage of Pro Day, little fan access to practices, now a news story on how he irritated local players/coaches. Don't get me wrong, these are not close to major issues but they are interesting quirks. He has every right to do it but previous coaches haven't.

Like every coach if he wins nobody will care. If he turns out mediocre teams the little annoyances and quirks add up.

I still don't understand the point of limiting a pro day. He "saw it from the Pro side" but what does that even mean?
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Much of what PJ says doesn't make sense. What's left is often misleading or insincere. If he can win, who cares, but IMO that is what I see.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Just speculating here, but - if player X from an NSIC school comes to the Pro Day and looks good, invariably someone will ask "why didn't the U of MN recruit him?" Maybe Fleck just didn't want to deal with those questions.

Sure, for kids from UMD or Winona State, the NFL is a long shot. But I hate to see those kids miss out on that shot because someone else decided not to let them participate.
 

I am way old, but I attended a MIAC school and I distinctly remember the Dallas Cowboys coming up to take a look at a guy. He was a DT who was 6-6 and about 240 (and this was an era when pro DTs often went about 250). They worked him out in the weight room, but when he ran about a 6.0 40 (hand-timed), they decided to take a pass.

I think the pros can find the guys they are interested in taking a closer look at. I wouldn't be surprised if all the small schools came up with their own pro day. Probably makes the most sense.
 

50PoundHead said:
I am way old, but I attended a MIAC school and I distinctly remember the Dallas Cowboys coming up to take a look at a guy. He was a DT who was 6-6 and about 240 (and this was an era when pro DTs often went about 250). They worked him out in the weight room, but when he ran about a 6.0 40 (hand-timed), they decided to take a pass.

I think the pros can find the guys they are interested in taking a closer look at. I wouldn't be surprised if all the small schools came up with their own pro day. Probably makes the most sense.
Click to expand...

The Cowboys always had a reputation for thinking outside the box on players - (talking about back in the 60's & 70's). They were one of the first teams to look at college basketball players or track stars as possible FB players, and they were also one of a very few teams that looked at the small schools for prospective players. I'm blanking on the name, but I knew a guy in Iowa who had a relative playing for the Cowboys - a guy from a smaller school.
 

PMWinSTP said:
How well do you understand the eligibility rules? For example, use Theilen.
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Well enough to know that Theilen could have walked on to the Gophers after his sophomore year and finished out his career in the Big 10 if he wanted to. He obviously had the ability.
 

GopherHomer said:
Well enough to know that Theilen could have walked on to the Gophers after his sophomore year and finished out his career in the Big 10 if he wanted to. He obviously had the ability.
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At Mankato, he caught 21, 41, 62 and 74 passes. He definitely would have been good enough to play at the U, but sitting out a year and moving to a more run oriented offense wouldn't have helped him as much as staying at Mankato and becoming the main target there.
 

GFBfan said:
At Mankato, he caught 21, 41, 62 and 74 passes. He definitely would have been good enough to play at the U, but sitting out a year and moving to a more run oriented offense wouldn't have helped him as much as staying at Mankato and becoming the main target there.
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I don't necessarily disagree - my only point is that going forward one potential benefit of Fleck's policy is that it may encourage guys that have "outgrown" their small school to transfer to Minnesota so they can enjoy all the benefits of playing for Gophers...one of which is getting to participate in their pro day after their college career is done.
 

GFBfan said:
At Mankato, he caught 21, 41, 62 and 74 passes. He definitely would have been good enough to play at the U, but sitting out a year and moving to a more run oriented offense wouldn't have helped him as much as staying at Mankato and becoming the main target there.
Click to expand...

Exactly my point. If he was on scholarship, losing that, gambling by sitting out a year, and then trying to make the field as a WR at the U would be a major leap of faith given his production through So. year.

It's not that easy.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
Just speculating here, but - if player X from an NSIC school comes to the Pro Day and looks good, invariably someone will ask "why didn't the U of MN recruit him?" Maybe Fleck just didn't want to deal with those questions.
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Easy answer for him: "Because Jerry Kill isn't an ELITE recruiter"
 

50PoundHead said:
I am way old, but I attended a MIAC school and I distinctly remember the Dallas Cowboys coming up to take a look at a guy. He was a DT who was 6-6 and about 240 (and this was an era when pro DTs often went about 250). They worked him out in the weight room, but when he ran about a 6.0 40 (hand-timed), they decided to take a pass.

I think the pros can find the guys they are interested in taking a closer look at. I wouldn't be surprised if all the small schools came up with their own pro day. Probably makes the most sense.
Click to expand...

So you think the 16 NSIC schools and 9 MIAC schools should all hold separate Pro Days? Now multiply that by 122 FCS schools, 170 Division II schools, and 244 Division III schools nationwide and you see why it makes sense for these major colleges to let kids simply join their Pro Day.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
The Cowboys always had a reputation for thinking outside the box on players - (talking about back in the 60's & 70's). They were one of the first teams to look at college basketball players or track stars as possible FB players, and they were also one of a very few teams that looked at the small schools for prospective players. I'm blanking on the name, but I knew a guy in Iowa who had a relative playing for the Cowboys - a guy from a smaller school.
Click to expand...

There was a guy from Granite Falls who played 13 seasons for the Cowboys.
 

joshvanklomp said:
So you think the 16 NSIC schools and 9 MIAC schools should all hold separate Pro Days? Now multiply that by 122 FCS schools, 170 Division II schools, and 244 Division III schools nationwide and you see why it makes sense for these major colleges to let kids simply join their Pro Day.
Click to expand...

I think he's saying they should just hold a joint small school pro day.
 

GopherHomer said:
I don't necessarily disagree - my only point is that going forward one potential benefit of Fleck's policy is that it may encourage guys that have "outgrown" their small school to transfer to Minnesota so they can enjoy all the benefits of playing for Gophers...one of which is getting to participate in their pro day after their college career is done.
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I don't think a player is going to look at transferring to the U, simply because they will now get to participate in a pro day a few years down the road. Also, a player may want to remain loyal to the program that recruited him rather than look to move on.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
I think he's saying they should just hold a joint small school pro day.
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That's essentially what they did, and only two teams not named the Vikings showed up. Would you rather work out in front of 3 teams or in front of 26 teams?
 

short ornery norwegian said:
The Cowboys always had a reputation for thinking outside the box on players - (talking about back in the 60's & 70's). They were one of the first teams to look at college basketball players or track stars as possible FB players, and they were also one of a very few teams that looked at the small schools for prospective players. I'm blanking on the name, but I knew a guy in Iowa who had a relative playing for the Cowboys - a guy from a smaller school.
Click to expand...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Ploeger
I played against this guy and I assume this is the guy that you are talking about. He was a legit pro prospect and looked the part: long and tall. Not sure how he ended up at Gustavus but the Cowboys found him and drafted him in the 6th round. One of the best memories of MIAC football for me was when Murray Warmath, then a scout for the Vikings, came to our practice to watch a few of our guys. He watched me for a while and I will never forget it. That was the end of it for me but one of our guys did get a tryout, he was the pro prospect that Warmath wanted to watch practice. My point is; and this was a long time ago, the pros find the real prospects.
 

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