Gilbert to Rider

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It looks like Rider is only 40 miles outside of Philly, which is home to Gilbert. I gotta admit I have never heard of Rider before so this seems like a pretty big drop off in program level. I hope this is what Gilbert wanted.
 


graydon said:
Rider has a pretty decent athletic program. They play in the Metro Atlantic conference (MAAC). Men's hoops finished 18-15 last season and turned down an NIT bid because of a short bench due to injuries.

http://www.gobroncs.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=20200&ATCLID=211517759
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Yes, not a bad basketball program at all, albeit lower tier. They also had a recent NBA player, Jason Thompson, who had an eight year career in the league. This is a good location for Gilbert but I don't think he'll be a big impact player there either.
 

eker0016 said:
I gotta admit I have never heard of Rider before so this seems like a pretty big drop off in program level. I hope this is what Gilbert wanted.
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You mean as opposed to full time bench riding here? And the fact that you never heard of Rider says more about you than it does about Rider.
 


Rider may have turned down a postseason bid (CBI or CIT), but it wasn't the NIT, not with a RPI in the 190's.
 

Honestly, probably a pretty good pick up for a program like Rider. Rider is basically a middling program in a historically one bid league(although they did receive 2 in 2012). So he should go there and be a significant contributor, and probably start from day 1.
 

Rider last made the NCAA tourney in 1993 or 1994, so hopefully Gilbert can contribute to them making it back.
 

Gophers7633 said:
So he should go there and be a significant contributor, and probably start from day 1.
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I have my doubts about that, but he'll probably be a rotation player. Rider is between Philly and NYC so there are a wealth of good players in that territory who are overlooked by the top tier programs.
 



cjbfbp said:
I have my doubts about that, but he'll probably be a rotation player. Rider is between Philly and NYC so there are a wealth of good players in that territory who are overlooked by the top tier programs.
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He should be a starter. Gilbert was a consensus 3 star coming out of high school. Had he signed with Rider out of high school he would have been their highest rated recruit in the last decade. Hell him just being 6'6 he'll already be at a major advantage in that league.
 

Gophers7633 said:
He should be a starter. Gilbert was a consensus 3 star coming out of high school. Had he signed with Rider out of high school he would have been their highest rated recruit in the last decade. Hell him just being 6'6 he'll already be at a major advantage in that league.
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Gilbert has shown nothing in his first (2) college seasons to suggest he can be a starting caliber player. Even at the lower reaches of Division 1.
 


Zeppelin Gopher said:
Gilbert has shown nothing in his first (2) college seasons to suggest he can be a starting caliber player. Even at the lower reaches of Division 1.
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There is an enormous difference between the top and bottom of Division I.
 



Zeppelin Gopher said:
Gilbert has shown nothing in his first (2) college seasons to suggest he can be a starting caliber player. Even at the lower reaches of Division 1.
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There is a big difference between playing in the Big 10 and playing in the MAAC. Let alone a team that finished .500 in the MAAC. Rider's tallest player was 6'7 last year. It's just a whole different level. 4 of their 5 best players were seniors and they still couldn't finish above .500 in a bad league. Rider is probably going to be one of the worst 50 teams in D1 next year. I think he'll start immediately in 2018-2019. This is a very bad program.
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
Gilbert has shown nothing in his first (2) college seasons to suggest he can be a starting caliber player. Even at the lower reaches of Division 1.
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Agreed (unless it's really low level D1), although I never say never. Funny how some people get really caught up in star rankings passed around the internet like they're gospel. Once you get to the 3 star rating there is tremendous variation in quality within that category. There's even a fair amount of variation in higher levels.
 

Gophers7633 said:
There is a big difference between playing in the Big 10 and playing in the MAAC. Let alone a team that finished .500 in the MAAC. Rider's tallest player was 6'7 last year. It's just a whole different level. 4 of their 5 best players were seniors and they still couldn't finish above .500 in a bad league. Rider is probably going to be one of the worst 50 teams in D1 next year. I think he'll start immediately in 2018-2019. This is a very bad program.
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Rider isn't THAT BAD of a program and you have really no sound basis to say that they'll finish in the bottom 50. And where they finish doesn't really help your point anyway. "star" ratings aren't science, particularly after the top 50 to 100 recruits or so. Akeem Springs was a 2 star player but had shown he could play at a high level in college and was able to claim a starting position here. Gilbert may be a 3 star player but hasn't shown that he can play at a high level yet in college.

Ever hear of Damian Lilliard and C.J. McCollum? They played at Weber State and Lehigh respectively. I doubt they were rated very highly coming out of high school.

Remember our highest rated football recruit of the last five years - Jeff Jones? How's his career gone?
 

cjbfbp said:
Rider isn't THAT BAD of a program and you have really no sound basis to say that they'll finish in the bottom 50. And where they finish doesn't really help your point anyway. "star" ratings aren't science, particularly after the top 50 to 100 recruits or so. Akeem Springs was a 2 star player but had shown he could play at a high level in college and was able to claim a starting position here. Gilbert may be a 3 star player but hasn't shown that he can play at a high level yet in college.

Ever hear of Damian Lilliard and C.J. McCollum? They played at Weber State and Lehigh respectively. I doubt they were rated very highly coming out of high school.

Remember our highest rated football recruit of the last five years - Jeff Jones? How's his career gone?
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Stupid post. I'm so tired of this argument. Of course you can find anecdotal data to support the argument that star ratings are inaccurate. But what other rating system do we have to analyze recruits and determine what impact they will have in college? None. Also, when you analyze a larger sample of players based on star rating, and not just a few handpicked samples, you will easily determine that the rating system is quite good an excellent prediction for a team's success.
 

cjbfbp said:
Remember our highest rated football recruit of the last five years - Jeff Jones? How's his career gone?
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He has to get his life in order. Currently playing for Garden City Community College. "The Broncbusters."

Odds are against him but Corey Dillon and Phil Loadholt played at Garden city.
 

cjbfbp said:
Rider isn't THAT BAD of a program and you have really no sound basis to say that they'll finish in the bottom 50. And where they finish doesn't really help your point anyway. "star" ratings aren't science, particularly after the top 50 to 100 recruits or so. Akeem Springs was a 2 star player but had shown he could play at a high level in college and was able to claim a starting position here. Gilbert may be a 3 star player but hasn't shown that he can play at a high level yet in college.

Ever hear of Damian Lilliard and C.J. McCollum? They played at Weber State and Lehigh respectively. I doubt they were rated very highly coming out of high school.

Remember our highest rated football recruit of the last five years - Jeff Jones? How's his career gone?
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This is their finish according to KenPom the last 5 seasons:

2017 - 208
2016 - 223
2015 - 163
2014 - 217
2013 - 160

They are an average program(comparing them to their conference) which is in a bad league. My basis for saying they'll be a bottom 50 team next year is the fact they lose 4 of their 5 best players and couldn't even finish as a top 200 team. Odds are they are going to be worse.

Using Springs is a bad comparison because they are taking the exact opposite trajectory in their college careers. Springs started his career at Northern Illinois on a 5-25 team and averaged 7 ppg. Stick Gilbert on a terrible team in a mediocre conference my guess is he does similar, if not better. Springs was able to contribute as a 5th year guy, he improved his game enough to do so. There's no way as a FR/SO he would have been doing what he did this past season in the B1G.
 

dpodoll68 said:
There is an enormous difference between the top and bottom of Division I.
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That's obvious. There is also an enormous difference between lower level D1 and high level D3, but I don't think Gilbert would be an impact player at that level either.
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
That's obvious. There is also an enormous difference between lower level D1 and high level D3, but I don't think Gilbert would be an impact player at that level either.
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LOL just from a mobility per size standpoint Gilbert would slot in as either the best player or the 2nd best player (maybe only 5-10 D3 schools would have a better player) on every single D3 school in the country.
 

Gilbert would destroy D3 competition on a daily basis. Are there players who could defend him or are similar to him in terms of skill/size? Absolutely. There just aren't that many of them at that level.
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
That's obvious. There is also an enormous difference between lower level D1 and high level D3, but I don't think Gilbert would be an impact player at that level either.
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It doesn't seem to be obvious to you. Gilbert would be among the best players in a conference like the SWAC, for example.

And LOL at the D-3 comment - absolutely asinine.
 


burton34 said:
Also, when you analyze a larger sample of players based on star rating, and not just a few handpicked samples, you will easily determine that the rating system is quite good an excellent prediction for a team's success.
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No, I don't think star ratings are "excellent" predictors at all once you get past the top 50 to 100 recruits and even within that range there are numerous inaccuracies. The 3 star rating particularly contains a great deal of variation in quality. It was given to first team All Big Ten players who made an immediate impact on their teams like Nate Mason and Aaron White but was also given to Gilbert and the dreadful Josh Oglesby.

Star ratings are far better than nothing but it is ludicrous to call them "excellent" predictors at least outside of the top recruits.

Your post reflects a handicap shared by so many these days: the inability to evaluate the quality of information critically. If it's passed around the internet, it must come from "experts."

You're the last person who should be calling anyone "stupid."
 

dpodoll68 said:
It doesn't seem to be obvious to you. Gilbert would be among the best players in a conference like the SWAC, for example.
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I'm not so sure of that but I believe he likely would be a starter in that league. Even a league as lowly as that one likely has a handful of players or more who probably are better than Gilbert. Zach Lofton was one of the top players in that league last year but he likely would have been a much better player than Gilbert had he stayed here as well.
 

Tim1406 said:
LOL just from a mobility per size standpoint Gilbert would slot in as either the best player or the 2nd best player (maybe only 5-10 D3 schools would have a better player) on every single D3 school in the country.
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I don't think that's what he meant. I think he meant that Gilbert wouldn't be a big impact player at lower level D1. The sentence was ambiguously worded. Clearly, Gilbert likely would be a high impact player in D3.
 

Gophers7633 said:
This is their finish according to KenPom the last 5 seasons:

2017 - 208
2016 - 223
2015 - 163
2014 - 217
2013 - 160
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So, they've never finished close to the bottom 50 in any of those years you listed but you are convinced they will in the upcoming season. And your basis for that is significant graduation losses. Tell me something - did they not have significant graduation losses in any season from 2012-2016?

Arguing with some of you is just too easy because you appear incapable of evaluating the holes in your own arguments.
 

cjbfbp said:
So, they've never finished close to the bottom 50 in any of those years you listed but you are convinced they will in the upcoming season. And your basis for that is significant graduation losses. Tell me something - did they not have significant graduation losses in any season from 2012-2016?

Arguing with some of you is just too easy because you appear incapable of evaluating the holes in your own arguments.
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When you lose significant contributors and don't replace them with anybody of significance you're going to be worse. If you finish last or 2nd to last in that league, you're going to be in the ranked around the 300's give or take. That's what I'm predicting based on who they are losing. I will tell you they didn't have this many significant losses in the prior 5 seasons. Only thing comparable was after the 2014-2015 season, when they lost their best 2 players and you can see the type of effect that had. This is a BAD program. Hovering around the 200's on average in KenPom signifies as much.
 

I have argued this to much ridicule for football - but especially for basketball there should be more than 5 stars to rate a player. A 3 star rated player in basketball is basically a recruiting service throwing up their arms and saying "we have no idea, but a major conference team signed them so here we go." They may end up being a star or Gilbert. Even the 247 number rankings are ridiculous - if they were equivalent to football, the Gopher basketball team would be a top tier program. All rankings are somewhat predictive, but subjective - but basketball is way more of a farce than football.
 

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