STrib: Mitch Leidner first-round draft projection still irks ESPN's McShay a yr later

BleedGopher

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per Rand Ball:

Around this time a year ago, ESPN’s Todd McShay put out his “way too early” mock draft for 2017 NFL first-round picks. Some of it worked out pretty well: 14 of his 32 selections one year out ended up being picked in the first round of the draft, which finally happened this past weekend.

But there were some significant misses as well — including one that drew some sideways glances from the local folks. McShay had Gophers quarterback Mitch Leidner going No. 25 overall to the Cowboys, writing that Leidner is “a late riser to keep an eye on, similar to Blake Bortles and Carson Wentz.”

McShay’s mock draft was mocked countless times by college football fans and probably put undue pressure on Leidner in his senior year with the Gophers. A year later, I had a chance to ask McShay about it — and the notion of trying to project draft picks a year in advance.

As it turns out, he might have liked his way-too-early mock draft even less than you did.

“That’s why it’s named the way-too-early mock draft,” McShay said. “To be completely transparent, it’s the least enjoyable article I write all year but unfortunately it does the most traffic and has the most clicks of anything we do all year. It’s a necessary evil, unfortunately.”

Those clicks depend on getting the mock draft for the following year out quickly while there is still buzz about the previous draft. But that doesn’t allow enough time for things like research and full evaluation by the time the way-too-early mock comes out.

“The hard part is quite honestly I haven’t watched any tape on most of these guys. … I have to rely on what I’ve seen when I’m watching other prospects during the college football season,” McShay said. “Last year specifically with Leidner, he had some flashing moments (the previous season), has the size and has some mobility. And I had conversations with people who had been around him and spoke of the work ethic and how much he loves the game. There were a lot of positives and thoughts he could be an ascending player. Now, three weeks later when I finally sat down and watched tape of Mitch Leidner, I wound up giving him a fifth-round grade.”

http://www.startribune.com/mitch-le...ill-irks-espns-mcshay-a-year-later/420934663/

Go Gophers!!
 

Sad for Mitch is that he never had a QB coach. The two biggest drawbacks to the Kill and Claeys régime was that and the WR coaches.
 



McShay wanted to generate clicks. But, he shined a spotlight on Mitch Leidner in the process.

It is not a knock on the Kill/Claeys Era, but there was a reason the passing game was lagging behind. Coaching.

I wonder how Mitch (Philip Nelson, Max Shortell as well) and the wide receivers would have done with a dedicated top QB coach.

IMHO, the Gophers wanted to be a run dominant team with a strong defense. They just did not give the same amount of quality attention to developing their quarterbacks and their wide receivers.

We'll soon see if PJF can create a balanced team with the new schemes.
 


McShay wanted to generate clicks. But, he shined a spotlight on Mitch Leidner in the process.

It is not a knock on the Kill/Claeys Era, but there was a reason the passing game was lagging behind. Coaching.

I wonder how Mitch (Philip Nelson, Max Shortell as well) and the wide receivers would have done with a dedicated top QB coach.

IMHO, the Gophers wanted to be a run dominant team with a strong defense. They just did not give the same amount of quality attention to developing their quarterbacks and their wide receivers.

We'll soon see if PJF can create a balanced team with the new schemes.

Not 100% sure there was another level in Mitch's game but I do think the QB/WR recruiting/coaching/development has been sorely lacking under Kill/Claeys. Will be interesting to see if Fleck is able to get more out of two units that have been weak spots under the previous regime. Croft, Still and Johnson will be the first test of this. The old staff didn't really seem to know how to get the most from those guys, we will get to see if the new regime can do something with them or if it will take an overhaul in personnel for us to get a passing game that is at least a little bit of a threat to compliment the running game.

As for the McShay prediction....he clearly looked at measurables and not much else when it came to Mitch. Had he watched any film on him at all he clearly would not have made the prediction he did.
 

It's clear that McShay rarely enjoys doing these. If you eve listened to McShay on Russillo and Kannel, they always gave him a hard time about his "Way too early" mocks. He would always say how much her really dislikes them but understands that people love to read these. You could clearly tell McShay really, really dislikes them a lot.
 

Sad for Mitch is that he never had a QB coach. The two biggest drawbacks to the Kill and Claeys régime was that and the WR coaches.

Yeah, it's hard for me to say if it was recruiting or developing (probably both).

We certainly didn't get much production out of those positions but I'm not sure if they were just bad at evaluating talent (or getting the talent to commit) or if they were bad at developing.

I don't know if Mitch ever would have been a good QB. He never looked like a good passer. This was a kid who was recruited and most of us thought he'd end up at TE or DE. I'm not ripping on Mitch, but I never saw him play and thought "our staff really messed this kid up". He never threw the ball fluidly and he never seemed like a natural QB (IMO). That said, it is a problem if he's your best and only option for years.

I think similar things with our WRs. I never saw anyone that I thought "man, all that potential was wasted". I kind of didn't see much talent. The closest thing I saw to the staff wasting talent was Tyler Johnson last year, but I didn't know if I should have written that off to him being a true freshman.

That said, it doesn't really make a difference. The positions weren't very good for us under Kill/Claeys and their improvement is vital/necessary for us to take the next step.
 

As for the McShay prediction....he clearly looked at measurables and not much else when it came to Mitch. Had he watched any film on him at all he clearly would not have made the prediction he did.

No, I disagree pretty strongly. Leidner had some really great looking highlights from his junior year (the Ohio State, Michigan, and Iowa games stand out), and not bad stats. I suspect that if his senior season had only been equal to his junior season, he would have been drafted. Not in the first round, but he would have heard his name called on draft day.
 



No, I disagree pretty strongly. Leidner had some really great looking highlights from his junior year (the Ohio State, Michigan, and Iowa games stand out), and not bad stats. I suspect that if his senior season had only been equal to his junior season, he would have been drafted. Not in the first round, but he would have heard his name called on draft day.

No. Mitch did not look good his junior year. He looked slow and his throws were not crisp. He didn't look incompetent but he did not look good.
 

No, I disagree pretty strongly. Leidner had some really great looking highlights from his junior year (the Ohio State, Michigan, and Iowa games stand out), and not bad stats. I suspect that if his senior season had only been equal to his junior season, he would have been drafted. Not in the first round, but he would have heard his name called on draft day.

He did put up his best numbers against the best competition (with the exception of Wisconsin) of the year his Junior season. The problem was the other games.

Then when he was supposedly healthy in his senior year, there was not only no improvement, there was regression.
 

per Rand Ball:
The hard part is quite honestly I haven’t watched any tape on most of these guys. … I have to rely on what I’ve seen when I’m watching other prospects during the college football season,” McShay said. “Last year specifically with Leidner, he had some flashing moments (the previous season), has the size and has some mobility. And I had conversations with people who had been around him and spoke of the work ethic and how much he loves the game. There were a lot of positives and thoughts he could be an ascending player. Now, three weeks later when I finally sat down and watched tape of Mitch Leidner, I wound up giving him a fifth-round grade.”

So the most clicked article you have of the year you do no legitimate research for... How was he not one of the 140 or whatever employees let go from ESPN??? Next time put out an article about the 15 things Star Wars screwed up or this one weird little trick for weight loss...

He did put up his best numbers against the best competition (with the exception of Wisconsin) of the year his Junior season. The problem was the other games.

Then when he was supposedly healthy in his senior year, there was not only no improvement, there was regression.

If you took only his highlights from his Junior year, he still wasn't a first round pick. That's the part that made it so laughable. I would have loved it if Mitch had come back and proved McShay right. But the odds of that happening even off only his best moments was next to zero. There are only a handful of QB's taken in the first round. Off his best moments only, he still wouldn't have passed any of the guys who got picked. And then because of that all the people who didn't see the followup where McShay dropped him to a 5th round pick (which was plausible had he improved with a healthy foot) he had a lot of undue pressure to try to be something he never legitimately should have been even considered for. It'd be like saying that I could be a head coach because I've made a couple intelligent sounding comments on GopherHole (debatable, I realize :)).
 




What a coincidence... I had the same reaction as McShay did to the article. The only difference was I had the reaction a year ago.
 

So the most clicked article you have of the year you do no legitimate research for... How was he not one of the 140 or whatever employees let go from ESPN???

If you didn't notice the ESPN layoffs had nothing to do with substance. The personalities stayed, the good writers were axed. Sad really.
 

That was one of the most frustrating things about Leidner. There were games - or moments within games - where he would hit a nice downfield pass, and made you think this guy could be a good QB if he could just be a little more consistent.

there was a stretch during his Junior year where it looked like he had figured things out. so, coming back for his Senior year - and having supposedly dealt with the foot injuries - there was reason to hope that Leidner would take a step forward. Instead, he took a step backwards.

Was it coaching? Was it just a case of Leidner running up against his own limitations? Or a case of Gopher fans expecting more than Leidner was capable of? Was Phil Nelson sticking pins in a voodoo doll?

Who knows? I just know it will go down as a frustrating chapter in Gopher History. Some nice wins - some disappointing losses - and a sense that something really good was lurking just out of reach.
 

That was one of the most frustrating things about Leidner. There were games - or moments within games - where he would hit a nice downfield pass, and made you think this guy could be a good QB if he could just be a little more consistent.

there was a stretch during his Junior year where it looked like he had figured things out. so, coming back for his Senior year - and having supposedly dealt with the foot injuries - there was reason to hope that Leidner would take a step forward. Instead, he took a step backwards.

Was it coaching? Was it just a case of Leidner running up against his own limitations? Or a case of Gopher fans expecting more than Leidner was capable of? Was Phil Nelson sticking pins in a voodoo doll?

Who knows? I just know it will go down as a frustrating chapter in Gopher History. Some nice wins - some disappointing losses - and a sense that something really good was lurking just out of reach.

Great way to sum up his QB tenure, honestly.
 

per Rand Ball:

Around this time a year ago, ESPN’s Todd McShay put out his “way too early” mock draft for 2017 NFL first-round picks. Some of it worked out pretty well: 14 of his 32 selections one year out ended up being picked in the first round of the draft, which finally happened this past weekend.

But there were some significant misses as well — including one that drew some sideways glances from the local folks. McShay had Gophers quarterback Mitch Leidner going No. 25 overall to the Cowboys, writing that Leidner is “a late riser to keep an eye on, similar to Blake Bortles and Carson Wentz.”

McShay’s mock draft was mocked countless times by college football fans and probably put undue pressure on Leidner in his senior year with the Gophers. A year later, I had a chance to ask McShay about it — and the notion of trying to project draft picks a year in advance.

As it turns out, he might have liked his way-too-early mock draft even less than you did.

“That’s why it’s named the way-too-early mock draft,” McShay said. “To be completely transparent, it’s the least enjoyable article I write all year but unfortunately it does the most traffic and has the most clicks of anything we do all year. It’s a necessary evil, unfortunately.”

Those clicks depend on getting the mock draft for the following year out quickly while there is still buzz about the previous draft. But that doesn’t allow enough time for things like research and full evaluation by the time the way-too-early mock comes out.

“The hard part is quite honestly I haven’t watched any tape on most of these guys. … I have to rely on what I’ve seen when I’m watching other prospects during the college football season,” McShay said. “Last year specifically with Leidner, he had some flashing moments (the previous season), has the size and has some mobility. And I had conversations with people who had been around him and spoke of the work ethic and how much he loves the game. There were a lot of positives and thoughts he could be an ascending player. Now, three weeks later when I finally sat down and watched tape of Mitch Leidner, I wound up giving him a fifth-round grade.”

http://www.startribune.com/mitch-le...ill-irks-espns-mcshay-a-year-later/420934663/

Go Gophers!!

The fact he still had a 5th round grade on the guy after watching tape is preposterous.
 

Sad for Mitch is that he never had a QB coach. The two biggest drawbacks to the Kill and Claeys régime was that and the WR coaches.

Or receivers to catch the ball. I know he had some bad misses, lots of QBs do....but he had receivers running completely wrong routes, running into each other
and dropping balls that land squarely in their hands..... When evaluating Mitch, that part cannot be left out..
 

The fact he still had a 5th round grade on the guy after watching tape is preposterous.

5th round is fair. Players drafted in the later rounds are not locks to make rosters and are not viewed as potential stars in the league. They are depth or project guy which is essentially what Mitch is. He has enough talent to stick on someones roster as a backup or #3 guy. Would not have been shocking to see him drafted in the late rounds.
 

Or receivers to catch the ball. I know he had some bad misses, lots of QBs do....but he had receivers running completely wrong routes, running into each other
and dropping balls that land squarely in their hands..... When evaluating Mitch, that part cannot be left out..

I was shocked at times how little separation our receivers created, however, Mitch made a lot of mistakes. In the early part of 2015, I don't think I've ever seen a quarterback miss more wide open receivers. People who went to games starting whispering about Jacques Perra, not because anyone thought he was great, but because Mitch was missing WIDE open receivers. It honestly made me think he had some sort of Mackey Sasser/Chuck Knoblauch kind of glitch.

But I hear you, Mitch didn't have ideal circumstances. The receivers weren't good. The coaches didn't appear to do him any favors and at times I thought we underutilized the talent we did have (why were Rodney and Shannon not catching more balls in 2015).


- - Just because I'm starting to feel guilty for ripping on Mitch. I need to add some good things. He was clearly the best QB option we had and he was one tough guy. By all indications, he was a great leader and people like him are going to be abundantly successful in life (in whatever they do). He reminds me a bit of Adam Weber (I'm not trying to compare ability). They are both local guys who gave everything to the U. They both got a lot of criticism (mostly warranted), but in the end of the day they are everything that is right about college football.
 

I was shocked at times how little separation our receivers created, however, Mitch made a lot of mistakes. In the early part of 2015, I don't think I've ever seen a quarterback miss more wide open receivers. People who went to games starting whispering about Jacques Perra, not because anyone thought he was great, but because Mitch was missing WIDE open receivers. It honestly made me think he had some sort of Mackey Sasser/Chuck Knoblauch kind of glitch.

But I hear you, Mitch didn't have ideal circumstances. The receivers weren't good. The coaches didn't appear to do him any favors and at times I thought we underutilized the talent we did have (why were Rodney and Shannon not catching more balls in 2015).


- - Just because I'm starting to feel guilty for ripping on Mitch. I need to add some good things. He was clearly the best QB option we had and he was one tough guy. By all indications, he was a great leader and people like him are going to be abundantly successful in life (in whatever they do). He reminds me a bit of Adam Weber (I'm not trying to compare ability). They are both local guys who gave everything to the U. They both got a lot of criticism (mostly warranted), but in the end of the day they are everything that is right about college football.

+1
 





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