OC Register: LaVar Ball blames white guys' foot speed for UCLA's tournament demise

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60's Guy said:
Everybody wants to point fingers, be politically correct and cry racism. Just a couple of thoughts in the equation: Lonzo Ball is half white. 80% of the players in the NBA are black. Tell me why more white players are not in the NBA if black players are not quicker? The 20% white guys are either very tall or from Europe with a different training of the game on fundamentals to further generalize. Or they are shooting specialists. If you have ever coached and don't think in general black players or teams are quicker, then instead of racism we might have an honesty issue. No, it's not unanimous but in general it's overwhelmingly obvious borne out by statistics or just watching the dang game. Not everything is racist...it's just true that black players are more often quicker. Fire away...
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It's settled then. UCLA lost because Lonzo Ball had one foot that was too quick for the other.
 

Gopher Teeth said:
This post is so ridiculous I don't have the time nor desire to even bother with addressing it. Just go on insulting people, making up your own definitions for words, and impressing yourself with how intelligent you think you are.
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Standard practice here: make a claim, have claim refuted, then state it's not worth your time when you have no intelligent response. Funny you call this 'rediculous' even though it's the subject of tons of research lol
 

beatles said:
I dont think saying white people are slow is racist, it's just lazy thinking brought on by a stereotype.
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Are you saying he's lazy because he's Black?
 





oleboy41 said:
I'm one of those that say racism is systemic
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Agreed with the other poster that says that you've just made up your own definition of the word to suit yourself. I'm white but work at an institution of higher education that is predominantly students of color/American Indian and I have a news report to share with you that just because you're black doesn't mean you "get it". If anything this whole racial dialogue in our country has moved faster in the fast five years than perhaps ever before and to claim that racism is "systemic" is to say that it's nameless, faceless and fatalistic, which means that people like LaVar Bell can't be possibly held accountable for his own statements. Think for a second how stupid that sounds. I'd like to think we're at a point where you can try to see how the other side lives because culturally competent your post isn't.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Gopherphile said:
Agreed with the other poster that says that you've just made up your own definition of the word to suit yourself. I'm white but work at an institution of higher education that is predominantly students of color/American Indian and I have a news report to share with you that just because you're black doesn't mean you "get it". If anything this whole racial dialogue in our country has moved faster in the fast five years than perhaps ever before and to claim that racism is "systemic" is to say that it's nameless, faceless and fatalistic, which means that people like LaVar Bell can't be possibly held accountable for his own statements. Think for a second how stupid that sounds. I'd like to think we're at a point where you can try to see how the other side lives because culturally competent your post isn't.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Odd that you assume things I never said. I never claimed my Blackness makes me correct. Also, as someone that works in higher education it's rather frightening that you think I came up with the idea of racism being systemic. The phrase 'racism=prejudice + power' isn't exactly new. Not to mention that studies have shown that whites are far more likely to view racism as individual acts/ideologies instead of the intentional creation and maintenance of systems designed to keep resources in the hands of the majority and out of the hands of the oppressed, which American racism is. Even the individual prejudice many believe racism to be stems from those systems. Check out the book the History of White People if you don't want to believe me. Also, people like Ball can absolutely be held accountable for saying stupid, prejudiced or stereotypical things without having to call it racism. And quite honestly I'm willing to bet I have more discussions about race and society with people of a different color than me than just about anyone here seeing how I am intentional about that in my personal life and lead these types of discussions in my home every few months. So thanks for the words in cultural competence but I think it's more likely that you're bothered that I'm not acting very humbly in calling stupidity stupidity
 

Gopher Teeth said:
This post is so ridiculous I don't have the time nor desire to even bother with addressing it. Just go on insulting people, making up your own definitions for words, and impressing yourself with how intelligent you think you are.
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Oleboy nailed it as did 60's guy. He's not making up his own definition of racism, you just don't know what it is. Races are in fact different in some ways and all stereotypes have some truth to them. When someone points that out it's not being racist. Have you watched track and field at the Olympics? Who typically runs faster? Of course it's not consistently that way, no stereotypes are.

I said Ball's comments is just lazy thinking because that's not why UCLA lost. But that doesn't mean there's not truth to the stereotype he's referencing.
 



oleboy41 said:
Odd that you assume things I never said. I never claimed my Blackness makes me correct. Also, as someone that works in higher education it's rather frightening that you think I came up with the idea of racism being systemic. The phrase 'racism=prejudice + power' isn't exactly new. Not to mention that studies have shown that whites are far more likely to view racism as individual acts/ideologies instead of the intentional creation and maintenance of systems designed to keep resources in the hands of the majority and out of the hands of the oppressed, which American racism is. Even the individual prejudice many believe racism to be stems from those systems. Check out the book the History of White People if you don't want to believe me. Also, people like Ball can absolutely be held accountable for saying stupid, prejudiced or stereotypical things without having to call it racism. And quite honestly I'm willing to bet I have more discussions about race and society with people of a different color than me than just about anyone here seeing how I am intentional about that in my personal life and lead these types of discussions in my home every few months. So thanks for the words in cultural competence but I think it's more likely that you're bothered that I'm not acting very humbly in calling stupidity stupidity
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racism = prejudice + power
KKK = prejudice
KKK ≠ power
therefore
KKK ≠ racist

got it
 

beatles said:
Oleboy nailed it as did 60's guy. He's not making up his own definition of racism, you just don't know what it is. Races are in fact different in some ways and all stereotypes have some truth to them. When someone points that out it's not being racist. Have you watched track and field at the Olympics? Who typically runs faster? Of course it's not consistently that way, no stereotypes are.

I said Ball's comments is just lazy thinking because that's not why UCLA lost. But that doesn't mean there's not truth to the stereotype he's referencing.
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So are you saying that race many times tends to be a primary determinant of human traits and capacities, for example in the area of "running faster"?
 

Gopher Teeth said:
So are you saying that race many times tends to be a primary determinant of human traits and capacities, for example in the area of "running faster"?
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Yes I am. Why are some people afraid to admit that out loud? Races have other differences than just the color of their skin. Are you aware that every single one of the ten men who have run the most sub 10 seconds 100 meter are African American?? You think that's a damn fluke?

Most times under 10 seconds

1) Asafa Powell – 97 times

2) Justin Gatlin – 53 times

3) Maurice Greene – 51 times

4) Usain Bolt – 49 times

5) Mike Rodgers – 39 times

6) Tyson Gay – 37 times

7) Nesta Carter – 29 times

8) Ato Boldon – 28 times

9) Frankie Fredericks – 27 times

9) Yohan Blake – 27 times

https://michaelsportstats.com/2016/09/08/most-100m-races-under-10-seconds/amp/

Why is almost every cornerback (the position that is required to cover the fastest players) African American? There's nothing wrong with stating some differences between races especially when it is so blatantly obvious.
 

beatles said:
Yes I am. Why are some people afraid to admit that out loud? .
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I am afraid it is you who does not know the definition of racism. The literal definition of the word racism is:

: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

So let's not change the meaning of words to fit our own personal agendas. What you want to argue is that not all racist beliefs are bad. I am not going to argue about that right now because my main point is to stop changing the true definition of words.
 



Gopher Teeth said:
I am afraid it is you who does not know the definition of racism. The literal definition of the word racism is:

: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

So let's not change the meaning of words to fit our own personal agendas. What you want to argue is that not all racist beliefs are bad. I am not going to argue about that right now because my main point is to stop changing the true definition of words.
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Wow nice try. I didn't argue that running faster makes that race better than any other race overall. Just pointing out a DIFFERENCE in them. It's right in front of your face in black and white, no pun intended.

Can you admit that the fact I posted above in regards to the most sub 10 second 100 meter runs is not a fluke and is in fact clearly affected by race?
 

Gopher Teeth said:
racism = prejudice + power
KKK = prejudice
KKK ≠ power
therefore
KKK ≠ racist

got it
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The same KKK that had governor's, senators and police chiefs among their ranks? The same KKK that still has people of influence among their ranks? And the KKK is a part of the fabric of this society. Just because their over power has waned doesn't mean they're irrelevant OR that they hold no power. But again, you're not smart enough to understand nuance or things outside of your own reach as you've shown before. Either that or you're just a kid who thinks he knows what he's talking about
 

oleboy41 said:
The same KKK that had governor's, senators and police chiefs among their ranks? The same KKK that still has people of influence among their ranks? And the KKK is a part of the fabric of this society. Just because their over power has waned doesn't mean they're irrelevant OR that they hold no power. But again, you're not smart enough to understand nuance or things outside of your own reach as you've shown before. Either that or you're just a kid who thinks he knows what he's talking about
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What influence does the KKK have today? Name me the politicians that are clamoring to get an endorsement from the KKK. Name me the corporations that want to have their products associated with the KKK. People are drummed out of society for much smaller stigmas than being linked to the KKK. The KKK is estimated to have a few thousand members, in contrast 12 million Americans believe that alien lizards rule us, so under your bizarre logic we should watch for the mighty anti alien lizard lobby's agenda and influence on our society.

The KKK as an organization is not powerful, I know that doesn't work out well for you, but it is undeniable. This is why your made up definition of racism doesn't work, but you are so blindly invested in that definition being true that you will hold to ridiculous claims.

Then of course you go back into your childish personal attacks, big surprise.
 

beatles said:
Wow nice try. I didn't argue that running faster makes that race better than any other race overall. Just pointing out a DIFFERENCE in them. It's right in front of your face in black and white, no pun intended.

Can you admit that the fact I posted above in regards to the most sub 10 second 100 meter runs is not a fluke and is in fact clearly affected by race?
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Looking at things through the lens of race and making judgments is what makes it racist. Your point about not claiming that running faster makes the race better is only because you have not carried out the logic. You have said one race is better at running, so lets just say that comment is just 'running racism' (isolated to that trait). What happens when you keep doing that analysis, trait by trait, and now you have a comprehensive list of traits for humans? Why would it not be ok at that point to sum up how many trait wins each race has and declare a winner? If doing it for one trait is ok, then why not two, three, four, etc? So correct you did not declare an overall winner for a race, but you did in one trait, what is then stopping the same analysis for all human traits?

Maybe a better way to look at it is: offspring of parents who are athletic run faster vs. race X is faster. One of these points of view is race based the other is not. Race based view is the first step, declaring one race the winner is what then makes it a racist view, by definition.
 

Gopher Teeth said:
Looking at things through the lens of race and making judgments is what makes it racist. Your point about not claiming that running faster makes the race better is only because you have not carried out the logic. You have said one race is better at running, so lets just say that comment is just 'running racism' (isolated to that trait). What happens when you keep doing that analysis, trait by trait, and now you have a comprehensive list of traits for humans? Why would it not be ok at that point to sum up how many trait wins each race has and declare a winner? If doing it for one trait is ok, then why not two, three, four, etc? So correct you did not declare an overall winner for a race, but you did in one trait, what is then stopping the same analysis for all human traits?

Maybe a better way to look at it is: offspring of parents who are athletic run faster vs. race X is faster. One of these points of view is race based the other is not. Race based view is the first step, declaring one race the winner is what then makes it a racist view, by definition.
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How can we talk about races and racism if we can't be honest about it? You can ignore reality if it makes you feel better but you, like so many others are just afraid to admit the blatant reality staring you in the face. No man of strictly European descent had ever even ran a sub 10 second 100 meters until 7 years ago. I'm not stating any opinion here I'm stating facts. Again, what is so wrong with admitting there are differences between races? Grow up.
 

Gopher Teeth said:
What influence does the KKK have today? Name me the politicians that are clamoring to get an endorsement from the KKK. Name me the corporations that want to have their products associated with the KKK. The KKK is estimated to have a few thousand members, in contrast 12 million Americans believe that alien lizards rule us, so under your bizarre logic we should watch for the mighty anti alien lizard lobby's agenda. The KKK as an organization is not powerful, I know that doesn't work out well for you, but it is undeniable. This is why your made up definition of racism doesn't work, but you are so blindly invested in that definition being true that you will hold to ridiculous claims.

Then of course you go back into your childish personal attacks, big surprise.
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Again, you can't read. Where did I say the KKK currently held a huge amount of power? I said they still have some influence because they do. They're no longer the harbinger of fear and death used to reinforce Jim Crow as they were, but even their intial creation was literally to enforce racism. Either way, it's clear you don't actually care about racism, you just like to deny it's reach. So yea, you're an idiot or too young to know any better. Either way you're not very smart.
 

beatles said:
How can we talk about races and racism if we can't be honest about it? You can ignore reality if it makes you feel better but you, like so many others are just afraid to admit the blatant reality staring you in the face. No man of strictly European descent had ever even ran a sub 10 second 100 meters until 7 years ago. I'm not stating any opinion here I'm stating facts. Again, what is so wrong with admitting there are differences between races? Grow up.
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Imagine if you said this in regards to white people being better than black people at something. People would lose their minds. Saying things like this is only socially acceptable if you're putting down white people (not saying it should be socially acceptable the other way around, just pointing out the double standard).
 

beatles said:
How can we talk about races and racism if we can't be honest about it? You can ignore reality if it makes you feel better but you, like so many others are just afraid to admit the blatant reality staring you in the face. No man of strictly European descent had ever even ran a sub 10 second 100 meters until 7 years ago. I'm not stating any opinion here I'm stating facts. Again, what is so wrong with admitting there are differences between races? Grow up.
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Again, I was not passing judgement on what you said. I did not agree nor disagree. All I am saying is according to the dictionary definition of the word 'racism' that is what it qualifies as. I understand there is a stigma to the word and that is why you push back, but if you look at the literal definition it is plain to see.

Look we can't have a discussion about racism if everyone has a different definition for the word. We then just go in circles because nobody can understand each other.
 

oleboy41 said:
Again, you can't read. Where did I say the KKK currently held a huge amount of power? I said they still have some influence because they do. They're no longer the harbinger of fear and death used to reinforce Jim Crow as they were, but even their intial creation was literally to enforce racism. Either way, it's clear you don't actually care about racism, you just like to deny it's reach. So yea, you're an idiot or too young to know any better. Either way you're not very smart.
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Ok try to keep up:

racism = prejudice + power
KKK = prejudice
KKK ≠ power
therefore
KKK ≠ racist

If you define the KKK to have 'power' in this equation and thus qualify as racist, under this made up definition, then you have rendered the 'power' variable meaningless. I guess the upside to your definition is that almost no individual people can be declared racist. The more I ponder your definition the more ridiculous it gets. Your ad hominem attacks are a sign of weakness in your argument and/or character.
 

Keyser Söze said:
Imagine if you said this in regards to white people being better than black people at something. People would lose their minds. Saying things like this is only socially acceptable if you're putting down white people (not saying it should be socially acceptable the other way around, just pointing out the double standard).
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No because I'm not equating faster with better. Why is faster better? I'm only pointing out a difference. People feel uncomfortable pointing things like this out. I don't. It is what it is. And there's nothing racist about it.
 

beatles said:
No because I'm not equating faster with better. Why is faster better? I'm only pointing out a difference. People feel uncomfortable pointing things like this out. I don't. It is what it is. And there's nothing racist about it.
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Good point. I can't think of any reasons why faster is better either. I think a lot of people consider being slow better than being fast. In fact, in races, I'm pretty sure the winner is selected arbitrarily.
 


beatles said:
Yes I am. Why are some people afraid to admit that out loud? Races have other differences than just the color of their skin. Are you aware that every single one of the ten men who have run the most sub 10 seconds 100 meter are African American?? You think that's a damn fluke?
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Not a fluke, but factually incorrect.
 

Gopher Teeth said:
In other words you make up your own definition for the word. Words have actual meaning, that is how we can communicate, you can't just change the meaning of words to placate your feelings. Go ahead and make yourself feel better by making up your own meaning for words, but don't expect anyone else to understand what you are saying or to go along with your world. It really is a narcissistic view to think that the meaning of words should be changed to your own personal feelings.

Here is the dictionary's definition of the word:

a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.

It is a belief, not anything to do with being systemic.
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No not necessarily. Definitions are fluid. If you go by the "original" meaning then oleboy41 is correct. Some even added the Institutional tag as a prefix to clarify. The popular definition has changed to the linked definition. Much like the N-word wasn't race specific till later. I found this out in elementary school when a teacher showed the entire class the "original" definition of the word.

If it makes some happy, perhaps we should specify. Mr. Ball is in my humble opinion displaying overt bigotry in addition to stupidity. However, he lacks the power to be institutionally racist.
 

Gopher Teeth said:
Ok try to keep up:

racism = prejudice + power
KKK = prejudice
KKK ≠ power
therefore
KKK ≠ racist

If you define the KKK to have 'power' in this equation and thus qualify as racist, under this made up definition, then you have rendered the 'power' variable meaningless. I guess the upside to your definition is that almost no individual people can be declared racist. The more I ponder your definition the more ridiculous it gets. Your ad hominem attacks are a sign of weakness in your argument and/or character.
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History proves you incorrect. Often the klan and law enforcement were the same. Jim Crow and the Klan walked hand in hand. Yes the Klan(my personal definition would be domestic terrorist) had and still has some power.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/jimcrow/stories_org_kkk.html


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism


I am not sure why oleboy41 is being attacked here. I vividly remember when the definition he gave was the commonly accepted definition. Just as I previously mentioned that the N-word had a different definition. In the past it referred to "low class" people. Over time the definition changed. What was once known as bigotry (or more specifically Racial bigotry/ racial prejudice)[https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigotis now "racism". Some have speculated that the co-opting of this and some other definitions are yet another example of institutional bias.

Just my two cents. In the end, I think most all of us agree that Mr. Ball is displaying stupid and bigoted behavior. Personally, I cannot support Mr. Ball (the father) or his enterprise. The son's are innocent but saddled to a dad that should know better.
 

beatles said:
Yes I am. Why are some people afraid to admit that out loud? Races have other differences than just the color of their skin. Are you aware that every single one of the ten men who have run the most sub 10 seconds 100 meter are African American?? You think that's a damn fluke?

Most times under 10 seconds

1) Asafa Powell – 97 times

2) Justin Gatlin – 53 times

3) Maurice Greene – 51 times

4) Usain Bolt – 49 times

5) Mike Rodgers – 39 times

6) Tyson Gay – 37 times

7) Nesta Carter – 29 times

8) Ato Boldon – 28 times

9) Frankie Fredericks – 27 times

9) Yohan Blake – 27 times

https://michaelsportstats.com/2016/09/08/most-100m-races-under-10-seconds/amp/

Why is almost every cornerback (the position that is required to cover the fastest players) African American? There's nothing wrong with stating some differences between races especially when it is so blatantly obvious.
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Race or family genetics? Define race?
 

Gopher Teeth said:
What influence does the KKK have today? Name me the politicians that are clamoring to get an endorsement from the KKK. Name me the corporations that want to have their products associated with the KKK. People are drummed out of society for much smaller stigmas than being linked to the KKK. The KKK is estimated to have a few thousand members, in contrast 12 million Americans believe that alien lizards rule us, so under your bizarre logic we should watch for the mighty anti alien lizard lobby's agenda and influence on our society.

The KKK as an organization is not powerful, I know that doesn't work out well for you, but it is undeniable. This is why your made up definition of racism doesn't work, but you are so blindly invested in that definition being true that you will hold to ridiculous claims.

Then of course you go back into your childish personal attacks, big surprise.
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Overtly or covertly? David Duke has out right stated that getting Trump into office was getting "their" guy into office.http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/11/04/kkk-2016-election-donald-trump-david-duke-griffin-dnt-ac360.cnn
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

This false created thing called race has created some ugly skeleton's in the worlds closet.
 

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