Clem Haskins, Gophers stung by U's silence 20 years after Final Four run

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short ornery norwegian said:
FWIW - best Gopher hoops team ever - 1976-77. Not able to play in NCAA due to penalties from violations during Musselman era. Beat NCAA champion Marquette during regular season. Lineup: Flip Saunders, Ray Williams, Goose Lockhart, Kevin McHale, Mychal Thompson, Dave Winey and Steve Lingenfelter. Would have had Mark Olberding, but he left school and played for Musselman in the ABA.

With all due respect to the Final four team, the 76-77 team would have killed their front line. The guard court would have been a great matchup - Bobby J vs Ray Williams - I'd pay good money to watch that.
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I agree, except they were on probation because Mychal sold game tickets he received for free to get cash for himself. Other players may also have done so.
 

Otis said:
I agree, except they were on probation because Mychal sold game tickets he received for free to get cash for himself. Other players may also have done so.
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I told that story to a 20 something at the banquet last night and he was shocked that such a severe penalty would be given for tickets at face value. Today it would be, at best, a self-reported infraction with not even a slap on the wrist.
 

It's priceless to read this thread. And all the while unc and Roy are basking in ff glory.

Recruits see another ff.

And we in mn can only look back at a ff that supposedly never happened. And cry about the lack of success over the past two decades.

While the Tar Heels bask in the limelight.

Level playing field indeed.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
FWIW - best Gopher hoops team ever - 1976-77. Not able to play in NCAA due to penalties from violations during Musselman era. Beat NCAA champion Marquette during regular season. Lineup: Flip Saunders, Ray Williams, Goose Lockhart, Kevin McHale, Mychal Thompson, Dave Winey and Steve Lingenfelter. Would have had Mark Olberding, but he left school and played for Musselman in the ABA.

With all due respect to the Final four team, the 76-77 team would have killed their front line. The guard court would have been a great matchup - Bobby J vs Ray Williams - I'd pay good money to watch that.
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1972 team would have stomped them.
 


I loved that season. I was in 9th grade and watched every game. My favorite memory was in the tournament when Bobby Jackson called a timeout in midair while he was flying out of bounds with the ball.
 

Bad Gopher said:
This is the way it has to be. But there is something irrational and ridiculous about pretending something didn't happen when it did.

As for the question of whether Minnesota or North Carolina is worse, it's not even in the same galaxy. Minnesota had been doing things the right way, then got lazy and frustrated and started doing the things that other programs were doing and getting away with. North Carolina sought to out-crook everyone else using innovative methods and unprecedented scope and did so over the course of decades.
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North Carolina's fake classes were in full swing when the Minnesota scandal erupted. We are discussing the 20th anniversary of the Minnesota scandal ending, and there is still no end in sight to NC.
Just by shear length of time and number of students involved, the NC scandal is far worse.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

I really enjoyed reading this column by Reusse - he's had a few this week. He must be enjoying watching baseball.

And I just couldn't wait to see how long it would take, and how outrageous the comment would be by Dopple. That was fun. Hitler and Stalin - great stuff!
 





West Fargo Gopher Fan said:
I loved that season. I was in 9th grade and watched every game. My favorite memory was in the tournament when Bobby Jackson called a timeout in midair while he was flying out of bounds with the ball.
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If I'm not mistaken, it was Charles Thomas.
 

xyz1 said:
While the NCAA's cowardice in refusing to engage in any of its revisionist history based on what happened at North Carolina, which was basically the same as what happened here except that it was about one hundred times larger in scope, is maddening, Clem Haskins would have a hard time being a less sympathetic "victim". The guy who spent 15 years bragging and telling everybody how he stood for all the right things and was a paragon of virtue never, to my recollection, gave a full accounting of what happened - either a defense/justification of his program, an apology for what happened, or some combination thereof. In fact, the buyout agreement had a clause requiring him to hold a press conference, but that never happened. Instead he just took his money and ran back to Kentucky.
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I recall that there were special stories during that run about how Clem was the father figure and didn't allow earnings or tattoos on his players. Little did we know that being a father involved taking care of the players homework also. If Clem ever admits to his role in the issue, I may have some sympathy for him. Until that happens, to bad.

I will admit that the memories of that season were wonderful. I had season tix for the regular season. I was at the 2nd round game and remember exactly where I was for the other Ncaa games. We all thought things were on the up and up at the time. Not until the big story 2 yrs later were we all majorly disappointed.




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I don’t mean to go on too much of a rant on this but everybody got screwed on this except the coaches and the players involved. The players were long gone and the coach got a 1.5 million dollar buyout to leave which he had to return half of. Sure… it was a bad deal and it does not reflect the values of anyone here on Gopherhole but the recovery has taken 20 years to a basketball team and fans that had no part in it.

In typical Minnesota nice fashion we imposed a Post season ban 99-00, reduction of three scholarships for that year and 4 schollys until 2004 (seriously, from laps that happened in 97 by people who were no longer with the program?). This was on ourselves!!!

Then the NCAA piled on another 3 years of probation and more scholarships until 2004 among a host of other penalties.

Mark Yudof, Mckinley Bosten, and Mark Deinhart self imposed the worse possible scenario and didn’t even flinch when the NCAA upped the penalty in a big way. The best high school players in the state then played at WI and Michigan State and along with their own instate talent helped create long term institutions at those schools that are only now showing signs of weakness.

The NCAA should only be imposing monetary penalties on Universities and management in addition the people directly involved NOT penalizing future players and fans – its madness!

Also, consider that the university could have negotiated and/or threatened legal action to mitigate some of the penalties (there are a lot of other situations where the schools get away with murder without a major disruption to the program) because they have good counsel and solid leadership at the schools.

Haskins, Ganglehoff, and the players involved clearly failed.
Yudof, Bosten, and Deinhart also failed in a big way.
The NCAA also failed us.
Me? What did I do? We the fans and Minnesota basketball players were directly penalized for 20 years and only now things are starting to shift back to normal. We didn’t deserve any of this – what did we do?

The NCAA is a flawed monopoly and bully. Someday I would like to see a university stand up to them and punch them in the nose to set them strait. Clearly it won’t be the U of M. </end rant>
 



Otis said:
I agree, except they were on probation because Mychal sold game tickets he received for free to get cash for himself. Other players may also have done so.
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I thought they were already ineligible due to the sanctions coming into the year, but the Thompson deal forced them to vacate those results as well. I agree seemed like a reason to pile on at that point.
 

CPTMidnight said:
I don’t mean to go on too much of a rant on this but everybody got screwed on this except the coaches and the players involved. The players were long gone and the coach got a 1.5 million dollar buyout to leave which he had to return half of. Sure… it was a bad deal and it does not reflect the values of anyone here on Gopherhole but the recovery has taken 20 years to a basketball team and fans that had no part in it.

In typical Minnesota nice fashion we imposed a Post season ban 99-00, reduction of three scholarships for that year and 4 schollys until 2004 (seriously, from laps that happened in 97 by people who were no longer with the program?). This was on ourselves!!!

Then the NCAA piled on another 3 years of probation and more scholarships until 2004 among a host of other penalties.

Mark Yudof, Mckinley Bosten, and Mark Deinhart self imposed the worse possible scenario and didn’t even flinch when the NCAA upped the penalty in a big way. The best high school players in the state then played at WI and Michigan State and along with their own instate talent helped create long term institutions at those schools that are only now showing signs of weakness.

The NCAA should only be imposing monetary penalties on Universities and management in addition the people directly involved NOT penalizing future players and fans – its madness!

Also, consider that the university could have negotiated and/or threatened legal action to mitigate some of the penalties (there are a lot of other situations where the schools get away with murder without a major disruption to the program) because they have good counsel and solid leadership at the schools.

Haskins, Ganglehoff, and the players involved clearly failed.
Yudof, Bosten, and Deinhart also failed in a big way.
The NCAA also failed us.
Me? What did I do? We the fans and Minnesota basketball players were directly penalized for 20 years and only now things are starting to shift back to normal. We didn’t deserve any of this – what did we do?

The NCAA is a flawed monopoly and bully. Someday I would like to see a university stand up to them and punch them in the nose to set them strait. Clearly it won’t be the U of M. </end rant>
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Well said.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
FWIW - best Gopher hoops team ever - 1976-77. Not able to play in NCAA due to penalties from violations during Musselman era. Beat NCAA champion Marquette during regular season. Lineup: Flip Saunders, Ray Williams, Goose Lockhart, Kevin McHale, Mychal Thompson, Dave Winey and Steve Lingenfelter. Would have had Mark Olberding, but he left school and played for Musselman in the ABA.

With all due respect to the Final four team, the 76-77 team would have killed their front line. The guard court would have been a great matchup - Bobby J vs Ray Williams - I'd pay good money to watch that.
Click to expand...


I gotta agree, the 1976-77 team was, imho, the better team. And using the term, best team "ever", seems to ignore the fact, as irrelevant as those seasons may have seemed without a post season tournament to validate them, that the 1901, 1902 & 1919 teams all went undefeated, and all 3 were declared natl champs by either the Helms Foundation and/or the Premo-Poll.


But I understand many in here are too young to have even seen the 1976-77 team, much less the 1919 and earlier teams.


Btw, the biggest difference between UNC and the Gophers? UNC is located in a state that is so rabid and insane about it's cbb, that the vast majority of the state's inhabitants will never cooperate or rat out any violators, and those violators were or have been in on it, the university as a whole is far more in on the whole thing. UMn is located in a state full of people who believe in doing what is right, telling the truth, exposing corruption, etc.. Midwesterners are just a different breed of people, well, at least Minnesotans and Wisconsinites. Not as sure about those Iowans or Dakotans, but I'd bet they are better than those North Carolinians. And so not only was the University as a whole not in on the cheating, but the environment here just makes it almost impossible for cheating on a large scale able to happen.
 

CPTMidnight said:
I don’t mean to go on too much of a rant on this but everybody got screwed on this except the coaches and the players involved. The players were long gone and the coach got a 1.5 million dollar buyout to leave which he had to return half of. Sure… it was a bad deal and it does not reflect the values of anyone here on Gopherhole but the recovery has taken 20 years to a basketball team and fans that had no part in it.

In typical Minnesota nice fashion we imposed a Post season ban 99-00, reduction of three scholarships for that year and 4 schollys until 2004 (seriously, from laps that happened in 97 by people who were no longer with the program?). This was on ourselves!!!

Then the NCAA piled on another 3 years of probation and more scholarships until 2004 among a host of other penalties.

Mark Yudof, Mckinley Bosten, and Mark Deinhart self imposed the worse possible scenario and didn’t even flinch when the NCAA upped the penalty in a big way. The best high school players in the state then played at WI and Michigan State and along with their own instate talent helped create long term institutions at those schools that are only now showing signs of weakness.

The NCAA should only be imposing monetary penalties on Universities and management in addition the people directly involved NOT penalizing future players and fans – its madness!

Also, consider that the university could have negotiated and/or threatened legal action to mitigate some of the penalties (there are a lot of other situations where the schools get away with murder without a major disruption to the program) because they have good counsel and solid leadership at the schools.

Haskins, Ganglehoff, and the players involved clearly failed.
Yudof, Bosten, and Deinhart also failed in a big way.
The NCAA also failed us.
Me? What did I do? We the fans and Minnesota basketball players were directly penalized for 20 years and only now things are starting to shift back to normal. We didn’t deserve any of this – what did we do?

The NCAA is a flawed monopoly and bully. Someday I would like to see a university stand up to them and punch them in the nose to set them strait. Clearly it won’t be the U of M. </end rant>
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Ditto!


I hope the P5 schools simply break away from the NCAA. The only problem I could see with that, is as a Gopher hockey fan, just not sure how that would work?
 

This is probably worthy of a separate thread, but the debate about the best Gopher team of all time is a good one. In my mind, the 76-77 and the 96-97 teams are pretty comparable. Both were (or would have been) legitimate national title contenders. The 76-77 team never had a chance to compete in the tournament; the 96-97 proved their mettle by getting to the Final Four and would have had as good a chance as any of the other teams there had they had Eric Harris at full health. I can't for the life of me say which one was better. It's pretty even.
 


KillmeNow said:
I hope the P5 schools simply break away from the NCAA. The only problem I could see with that, is as a Gopher hockey fan, just not sure how that would work?
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The P5 schools are the NCAA. Are they going to break away from themselves? And if they did decide to "break away" from the NCAA, they would replace it with a different governing structure that in time would be exactly like the NCAA. So what's the point?
 

dpodoll68 said:
The P5 schools are the NCAA. Are they going to break away from themselves? And if they did decide to "break away" from the NCAA, they would replace it with a different governing structure that in time would be exactly like the NCAA. So what's the point?
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Yep. Am surprised how many people don't know that the schools are the NCAA.
 


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