P.J. Fleck talks Conor Rhoda, Antoine Winfield Jr. and positional depth

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MaxyJR1 said:
It's called an AD believing that 2016 was the best Claeys could do and that he was not a sustainable option. It's called an AD putting his own job on the line to better the program with a belief in PJ Fleck.
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We agree. Coyle is to blame along with Kaler. We should expect no less than 9 wins this upcoming season and top 10 recruiting ratings by all recruiting agencies. Nothing less should be acceptable.
 

MennoSota said:
What is the asterisk for? Did we get wins by the other team forfeiting or by NCAA sanction? If not then your asterisk is just you being wrong and fixing nothing.
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The * is there, because some believe the 9 win season was not 9 wins, since we beat crappy teams by less than a, as yet to be determined, acceptable winning margin.
 

GFBfan said:
The * is there, because some believe the 9 win season was not 9 wins, since we beat crappy teams by less than a, as yet to be determined, acceptable winning margin.
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Can you point out a post saying they didn't win 9 games last year?
 

MaxyJR1 said:
That is straight trolling. No QB experience, players kicked out of school, transfers, schedule, new coaches, etc. etc. They all play a roll.
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No QB Experience - By the time Big Ten play starts our QB should be able to give us at worst Leidner stats (54% completion, 4 passing TD's 11 Int's)
Players Kicked Out of School - We lost, what, 2 players that would have seen minutes?
Transfers - 3 as of right now. Not ideal but isn't going to tank the season
Schedule - subbing @ Penn St for @ Michigan is a wash. Maryland we get at home this year instead of the road. Mich St for Rutgers is the only argument and Mich St won 3 games last year.
New Coaches - Biggest point
 

MaxyJR1 said:
It's called an AD believing that 2016 was the best Claeys could do and that he was not a sustainable option. It's called an AD putting his own job on the line to better the program with a belief in PJ Fleck.
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That isn't what the AD said tho.


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tmvander said:
No QB Experience - By the time Big Ten play starts our QB should be able to give us at worst Leidner stats (54% completion, 4 passing TD's 11 Int's)
Players Kicked Out of School - We lost, what, 2 players that would have seen minutes?
Transfers - 3 as of right now. Not ideal but isn't going to tank the season
Schedule - subbing @ Penn St for @ Michigan is a wash. Maryland we get at home this year instead of the road. Mich St for Rutgers is the only argument and Mich St won 3 games last year.
New Coaches - Biggest point
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Not sure where you got his stats from but those aren't it. And why does everyone always leave off his rushing TDs like they don't count because he is QB?
 

bottlebass said:
Not sure where you got his stats from but those aren't it. And why does everyone always leave off his rushing TDs like they don't count because he is QB?
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Those are his big ten plus bowl game stats and yes they are it.

Agree his running TD's and toughness are tough to match but we have two of the best running backs in the big ten so I think our rushing attack will be alright without Leidner.
 

tmvander said:
Those are his big ten plus bowl game stats and yes they are it.

Agree his running TD's and toughness are tough to match but we have two of the best running backs in the big ten so I think our rushing attack will be alright without Leidner.
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Got it, just B1G. That is a weird way to break down stats. So then why not add his 7 rushing TDs too?
 

Anyone know where I can find a forum to discuss gopher football? Because this is definitely not the place.


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bottlebass said:
Not sure where you got his stats from but those aren't it. And why does everyone always leave off his rushing TDs like they don't count because he is QB?
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Based on Fleck's offense, seems like Gophs should pick up a majority of ML's rushing TDs through the passing offense, and the RBs getting more of those TD carries inside the red-zone.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Based on Fleck's offense, seems like Gophs should pick up a majority of ML's rushing TDs through the passing offense, and the RBs getting more of those TD carries inside the red-zone.
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WMU QB had 7 rushing TDs last year?

Just because they may not rush the ball as much during drives doesn't mean they can't be used as a weapon in the red zone.
 

bottlebass said:
WMU QB had 7 rushing TDs last year?

Just because they may not rush the ball as much during drives doesn't mean they can't be used as a weapon in the red zone.
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Not disputing that at all, just saying statistically Fleck's offense is much, much more inclined to have the QB pass the ball in those situations instead of run it, and much more inclined to have the QB hand off in those running situations.
 

tmvander said:
No QB Experience - By the time Big Ten play starts our QB should be able to give us at worst Leidner stats (54% completion, 4 passing TD's 11 Int's)
Players Kicked Out of School - We lost, what, 2 players that would have seen minutes?
Transfers - 3 as of right now. Not ideal but isn't going to tank the season
Schedule - subbing @ Penn St for @ Michigan is a wash. Maryland we get at home this year instead of the road. Mich St for Rutgers is the only argument and Mich St won 3 games last year.
New Coaches - Biggest point
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Leidner was subpar, but the fact remains no one else on the roster could beat him out. It's possible that the QB play doesn't improve this year or possibly regresses. He was also a threat running the ball.
Hardin and Buford would have been our 2 starting CBs. That's a pretty big loss. Dior Johnson and Tamarion could have been in the 2-deeps, hard to say.
We've also had 3 potential starters (who would have been in the 2-deeps at a minimum) leave: Tyler Moore, Connor Mayes, Gaelin Elmore. Moore and Elmore likely would have started. It's easy to say it "won't tank the season" but it chips away at depth and could absolutely be the difference in a few games.
Schedule - tougher. Oregon St is on the road and we barely beat them at home last year. Michigan St was down last year but is likely to bounce back. Definitely a tougher draw than Rutgers. Agree that at Michigan vs at PSU is a wash.
 



bottlebass said:
Got it, just B1G. That is a weird way to break down stats. So then why not add his 7 rushing TDs too?
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Just pointing some things out. Heading into the offseason I too was thinking this season could be tougher just based on the fact we'll have a new QB but then I looked at those numbers.

Why break it down into just Big Ten (and bowl game)? Well, I'm hoping a Big Ten caliber QB can play well against Colorado St and Indiana St. I'll throw Oregon St in my numbers too since they are a power school which actually drops Mitch's completion % (13-26 that game) with no TD's or Int's and 76 passing yards. We're looking at needing a QB who can dominate against lesser competition, throw 50% against power level opponents, and throw 3 times as many Int's as TD's.

As far as rushing goes...you're right Mitch could score some TD's but like I said we have 2 studs at RB so I'm not worried about losing Mitch's rushing stats.

Don't want to turn this thread into another Mitch thread, but my point is I think he can be replaced easier than we all think.
 

John Galt said:
Leidner was subpar, but the fact remains no one else on the roster could beat him out. It's possible that the QB play doesn't improve this year or possibly regresses. He was also a threat running the ball.
Hardin and Buford would have been our 2 starting CBs. That's a pretty big loss. Dior Johnson and Tamarion could have been in the 2-deeps, hard to say.
We've also had 3 potential starters (who would have been in the 2-deeps at a minimum) leave: Tyler Moore, Connor Mayes, Gaelin Elmore. Moore and Elmore likely would have started. It's easy to say it "won't tank the season" but it chips away at depth and could absolutely be the difference in a few games.
Schedule - tougher. Oregon St is on the road and we barely beat them at home last year. Michigan St was down last year but is likely to bounce back. Definitely a tougher draw than Rutgers. Agree that at Michigan vs at PSU is a wash.
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Agree with your points.

I'll stand by the point that I think Leidner is more replaceable than many think.
It always hurts losing guys and the two expelled and 3 transfers aren't great.
Agree the schedule is tougher overall.

I just don't see how all of it put together should lower our expectations all that much. Personally I'll be disappointed with anything less than 7-5 before the bowl game.
 

John Galt said:
Leidner was subpar, but the fact remains no one else on the roster could beat him out. It's possible that the QB play doesn't improve this year or possibly regresses. He was also a threat running the ball.
Hardin and Buford would have been our 2 starting CBs. That's a pretty big loss. Dior Johnson and Tamarion could have been in the 2-deeps, hard to say.
We've also had 3 potential starters (who would have been in the 2-deeps at a minimum) leave: Tyler Moore, Connor Mayes, Gaelin Elmore. Moore and Elmore likely would have started. It's easy to say it "won't tank the season" but it chips away at depth and could absolutely be the difference in a few games.
Schedule - tougher. Oregon St is on the road and we barely beat them at home last year. Michigan St was down last year but is likely to bounce back. Definitely a tougher draw than Rutgers. Agree that at Michigan vs at PSU is a wash.
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Agree that it is a little tougher on paper. I would counter with the fact that Iowa lost almost all its starting skill players on offense. NEB lost its starting QB, who was its leader, and accounted for 65% of its total offense.
 

tmvander said:
Just pointing some things out. Heading into the offseason I too was thinking this season could be tougher just based on the fact we'll have a new QB but then I looked at those numbers.

Why break it down into just Big Ten (and bowl game)? Well, I'm hoping a Big Ten caliber QB can play well against Colorado St and Indiana St. I'll throw Oregon St in my numbers too since they are a power school which actually drops Mitch's completion % (13-26 that game) with no TD's or Int's and 76 passing yards. We're looking at needing a QB who can dominate against lesser competition, throw 50% against power level opponents, and throw 3 times as many Int's as TD's.

As far as rushing goes...you're right Mitch could score some TD's but like I said we have 2 studs at RB so I'm not worried about losing Mitch's rushing stats.

Don't want to turn this thread into another Mitch thread, but my point is I think he can be replaced easier than we all think.
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History shows it won't be that easy. Hopefully Claeys was planning for the future by redshirting the green and croft and it wasn't just because they were no where near able to beat out Rhoda.
 

John Galt said:
Leidner was subpar, but the fact remains no one else on the roster could beat him out. It's possible that the QB play doesn't improve this year or possibly regresses. He was also a threat running the ball.
Hardin and Buford would have been our 2 starting CBs. That's a pretty big loss. Dior Johnson and Tamarion could have been in the 2-deeps, hard to say.
We've also had 3 potential starters (who would have been in the 2-deeps at a minimum) leave: Tyler Moore, Connor Mayes, Gaelin Elmore. Moore and Elmore likely would have started. It's easy to say it "won't tank the season" but it chips away at depth and could absolutely be the difference in a few games.
Schedule - tougher. Oregon St is on the road and we barely beat them at home last year. Michigan St was down last year but is likely to bounce back. Definitely a tougher draw than Rutgers. Agree that at Michigan vs at PSU is a wash.
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Hardin and Buford leaving hurts the most out of those suspended, but I think we'll survive (not thrive) with Thomas, Durr (if he's healthy) and one or two of the incoming recruits. I think the transfers of Moore, Mayes and Elmore will really hurt. I hope we don't hear of any more transfers this spring.

People keep saying that if anybody was better than Leidner last year they would've played. That's probably true. But that doesn't mean there was a huge divide between Leidner and the backups. Plus, players tend to get bigger, stronger and better from year to year. For all we know, Croft and Rhoda weren't far behind Leidner last year. After another off season and a few non-conference games this September, they could be all caught up. I'm also assuming the passing offense is designed better under this staff. We'll see.
 

Spoofin said:
That isn't what the AD said tho.


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He said he read a lot of emails from frustrated fans. He also didn't say the next coach had to equal or better 2016 in year #1. That's why he's provided the new coach with a 5 year deal. Exceed and get extended, fail and be let got. I would have given a 6-7 year deal.
 

bottlebass said:
History shows it won't be that easy. Hopefully Claeys was planning for the future by redshirting the green and croft and it wasn't just because they were no where near able to beat out Rhoda.
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Croft is splitting time with Rhoda and Green is behind Morgan on the depth chart.
 

Is Rhoda the only QB who has gotten media time so far?
 


Johnnyboy18 said:
Croft is splitting time with Rhoda and Green is behind Morgan on the depth chart.
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Good that means that maybe Croft wasn't that far behind and they were just trying to get his year back.

Where is this depth chart you speak of?
 

Not a depth chart but a practice report on one of the paid sites. I'm sure you'll see the same thing if you go to the practice today.
 

John Galt said:
Leidner was subpar, but the fact remains no one else on the roster could beat him out. It's possible that the QB play doesn't improve this year or possibly regresses. He was also a threat running the ball.
Hardin and Buford would have been our 2 starting CBs. That's a pretty big loss. Dior Johnson and Tamarion could have been in the 2-deeps, hard to say.
We've also had 3 potential starters (who would have been in the 2-deeps at a minimum) leave: Tyler Moore, Connor Mayes, Gaelin Elmore. Moore and Elmore likely would have started. It's easy to say it "won't tank the season" but it chips away at depth and could absolutely be the difference in a few games.
Schedule - tougher. Oregon St is on the road and we barely beat them at home last year. Michigan St was down last year but is likely to bounce back. Definitely a tougher draw than Rutgers. Agree that at Michigan vs at PSU is a wash.
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I don't know that anyone was ever given a chance to beat him out. He was named the clear starter a couple of years ago, and they tied their wagons to him as the leader of the locker room. To beat him out, the QB would have had to be significantly better in practice, and from all indications, Leidner looks pretty good on the practice field when bullets aren't flying. Also, Claeys very clearly said at start of spring last year that he wanted to get Demry's redshirt back and be able to redshirt Green.

I think it's a leap to say that no one was as good or better. We just don't know. There are always examples of the replacement QB being better than who they replaced the previous year, even though they played behind the past QB.
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
I don't know that anyone was ever given a chance to beat him out. He was named the clear starter a couple of years ago, and they tied their wagons to him as the leader of the locker room. To beat him out, the QB would have had to be significantly better in practice, and from all indications, Leidner looks pretty good on the practice field when bullets aren't flying. Also, Claeys very clearly said at start of spring last year that he wanted to get Demry's redshirt back and be able to redshirt Green.

I think it's a leap to say that no one was as good or better. We just don't know. There are always examples of the replacement QB being better than who they replaced the previous year, even though they played behind the past QB.
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Claeys was coaching for his life last year. Even a 9-4 record couldn't save him. It's preposterous to think he wouldn't have played the best player at QB.

Could this year's starting QB be better than Mitch was last year? Sure. Were they better than Mitch last year. No.
 

tmvander said:
Just pointing some things out. Heading into the offseason I too was thinking this season could be tougher just based on the fact we'll have a new QB but then I looked at those numbers.

Why break it down into just Big Ten (and bowl game)? Well, I'm hoping a Big Ten caliber QB can play well against Colorado St and Indiana St. I'll throw Oregon St in my numbers too since they are a power school which actually drops Mitch's completion % (13-26 that game) with no TD's or Int's and 76 passing yards. We're looking at needing a QB who can dominate against lesser competition, throw 50% against power level opponents, and throw 3 times as many Int's as TD's.

As far as rushing goes...you're right Mitch could score some TD's but like I said we have 2 studs at RB so I'm not worried about losing Mitch's rushing stats.

Don't want to turn this thread into another Mitch thread, but my point is I think he can be replaced easier than we all think.
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With a weakened offensive line can we still expect our running backs to produce at last year's levels? It won't surprise me to see the Gophers get soundly beaten at Oregon State.
 

There's no question the depth has taken a hit due to players leaving - some for disciplinary reasons and some leaving on their own accord.

As others have said, every team in the country loses players due to graduation. It's the unplanned losses that hurt. The helmet schools generally have the depth to absorb some of those situations. A program like the Gophers has a narrower margin. At this point, the losses in the secondary and the OL may have the biggest impact. Younger players are going to have to play sooner than expected,and how well they play may determine what kind of season the Gophers have.

But, I don't see anything that makes me think the team is doomed, or they can't have a winning season.

As far as the QB play- as others have noted, it doesn't have to be stellar - it just has to be adequate. That is where this coaching staff needs to come through. If they can improve the level of QB play, the coaches will have proved their worth.
 

MennoSota said:
With a weakened offensive line can we still expect our running backs to produce at last year's levels? It won't surprise me to see the Gophers get soundly beaten at Oregon State.
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I think the running game will be fine. Maybe not as good as last year but fine. We lost some guys to graduation and transferring but it isn't like they were first round picks that we now have to replace.

The depth of the line scares me much more than the quality of what the starting 5 will be.
 

MennoSota said:
What is the asterisk for? Did we get wins by the other team forfeiting or by NCAA sanction? If not then your asterisk is just you being wrong and fixing nothing.
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Wins matter, but it was PAINFUL being in the stands at the Bank last year (NW excepted, ISU was just boring). And watching at Becky was just disgusting and deflating (and I was way under lubricated). Without the Wazzu surprise that left a good (game play) taste in our mouths, it would have been just an awful season from a "feel" standpoint.
 

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