Claeys Vs Fleck

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bottlebass said:
Did you really just try to argue that losing a game is as impressive as winning a game?
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Regardless of conference a team going to a Years Day 6 Bowl is always more impressive than an invite to the Holiday Bowl. Outcome of the game is irrelevant.
 

scools12 said:
Regardless of conference a team going to a Years Day 6 Bowl is always more impressive than an invite to the Holiday Bowl. Outcome of the game is irrelevant.
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Nominate this for the preposterous statement tournament.
 

scools12 said:
Regardless of conference a team going to a Years Day 6 Bowl is always more impressive than an invite to the Holiday Bowl. Outcome of the game is irrelevant.
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Well, the New Years 6 has an automatic invite for a group of 5 team regardless of how "good" they are. WMU got in by virtue of their impressive record but were they really the best G5 team? Who knows? By S&P+ measures they were not, behind teams like SDSU and Boise State.

As we know record doesn't always reflect reality because many G5 teams play very strong P5 teams and/or have strong conference opponents.

So how good was WMU? Pretty darn good. Where would they have finished in the Big Ten? I'm not convinced their bid to the Cotton Bowl is automatically more impressive than the Jan 1st bowl or even their ability to thump a team they were supposed to lose to, down 10 players.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
So how good was WMU? Pretty darn good. Where would they have finished in the Big Ten? I'm not convinced their bid to the Cotton Bowl is automatically more impressive than the Jan 1st bowl or even their ability to thump a team they were supposed to lose to, down 10 players.
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Taking nothing away from Claeys and the Gophers I would take the Cotton Bowl bid.

My initial response was to an attempt to belittle a coach for taking a non P5 school to NYD 6 Bowl and losing. I


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Yes, but my point is would they have gotten there without the auto bid stipulation.
 


beavergopher said:
And not having to have an AED on standby.
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These kind of comments aren't funny. Why? Because there were far too many people who wanted coach gone, and didn't like him, simply because they didn't like how he looked on the sideline. That is sad.


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GophersFan101 said:
Which of those 9 wins were impressive?
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This is so stupid. Why do Gopher fans always have to qualify wins? Who cares - they played the schedule and won the games they should. There have been years recently when WI simply won the games they should have and were in the Big Ten championship game. Their fans weren't apologizing. 9 wins is 9 wins - I think the wins against NW and WSU were both very impressive, and they also won pretty impressively on the road against Maryland and Illinois.


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I want Fleck to succeed. However, for those who are downgrading the work our past staff did in winning 9 games, why do you excuse what Fleck may or may not do. If he performs similar to past staff, he should win the following games:

Buffalo
Oregon State
Middle TN
Maryland
Purdue
Illinois
Northwestern
Michigan State, Iowa both tossups as who knows what kind of team they will have.

So, that's 7-9 wins simply performing like Claeys did this past year. Based on those who say the 9 wins last year weren't impressive because of who they beat, they won the games they were supposed to. They should then win the seven above this year. That means Fleck should get 7 (same wins as last year that weren't impressive) plus the bowl.


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Ozzy&Ray said:
I want Fleck to succeed. However, for those who are downgrading the work our past staff did in winning 9 games, why do you excuse what Fleck may or may not do. If he performs similar to past staff, he should win the following games:

Buffalo
Oregon State
Middle TN
Maryland
Purdue
Illinois
Northwestern
Michigan State, Iowa both tossups as who knows what kind of team they will have.

So, that's 7-9 wins simply performing like Claeys did this past year. Based on those who say the 9 wins last year weren't impressive because of who they beat, that means Fleck should get 7 (same wins as last year that weren't impressive) plus the bowl.


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I think most of us would agree with you on those games, but the uncertainty at QB makes me think Oregon State is a bit of wildcard as we simply don't have experience at the position and QB's can actually lose games almost by themselves.
 



GoldenGopherTilTheEnd said:
I think most of us would agree with you on those games, but the uncertainty at QB makes me think Oregon State is a bit of wildcard as we simply don't have experience at the position and QB's can actually lose games almost by themselves.
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Possibly, but I can't imagine QB play can be any more inconsistent than it has been. One hope I do have for the new staff is more consistent play from that position. Will be interesting to watch.


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GoldenGopherTilTheEnd said:
I think most of us would agree with you on those games, but the uncertainty at QB makes me think Oregon State is a bit of wildcard as we simply don't have experience at the position and QB's can actually lose games almost by themselves.
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Oregon State won four games. One vs Idaho. Two versus PAC teams that both had quit on coaches that got canned at Oregon and Cal. Other win vs a crap show Rich Rod team. They lose as much or more talent than we do. They have no idea who QB will be. Lost two of best coaches.

Michigan was a toss up two years ago, beat them three years ago in Ann Arbor. Penn State was a toss up last year. Gophs can play with so called powers from East Division. Michigan loses 18 NFL guys. That game is a toss up.

Nebraska and Wisconsin on the road were decided in final minutes of fourth quarter. Both teams lose tons of talent, more than we do. Both teams have coaching upheavals. Get both at home, where PJ will have the home game experience and advantage much improved.
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
I want Fleck to succeed. However, for those who are downgrading the work our past staff did in winning 9 games, why do you excuse what Fleck may or may not do. If he performs similar to past staff, he should win the following games:

Buffalo
Oregon State
Middle TN
Maryland
Purdue
Illinois
Northwestern
Michigan State, Iowa both tossups as who knows what kind of team they will have.

So, that's 7-9 wins simply performing like Claeys did this past year. Based on those who say the 9 wins last year weren't impressive because of who they beat, they won the games they were supposed to. They should then win the seven above this year. That means Fleck should get 7 (same wins as last year that weren't impressive) plus the bowl.


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If only the Gophers and all those teams were exactly the same as last year...
 



swingman said:
Oregon State won four games. One vs Idaho. Two versus PAC teams that both had quit on coaches that got canned at Oregon and Cal.
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Sounds like their wins don't really count either.
4* Wins


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GopherWeatherGuy said:
If only the Gophers and all those teams were exactly the same as last year...
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So what you are saying is those wins will count this year? Whew. I'm glad to know that in advance.


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The great thing about WeatherGuy's position is that he gets to wait until after the season to decide which wins count and which wins don't count.

bold prediction - after the 2017 season, WeatherGuy will inform us that all of Fleck's wins get to count as wins.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
The great thing about WeatherGuy's position is that he gets to wait until after the season to decide which wins count and which wins don't count.

bold prediction - after the 2017 season, WeatherGuy will inform us that all of Fleck's wins get to count as wins.
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When have I ever said 'wins don't count'? Not once. 2014 was a better season in pretty much every way other than the final win total was 8 and not 9.

But I'm supposed to be impressed because the final total was 9 and that doesn't happen very often. Sorry but for me there's more that goes into considering a season successful.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
When have I ever said 'wins don't count'? Not once. 2014 was a better season in pretty much every way other than the final win total was 8 and not 9.

But I'm supposed to be impressed because the final total was 9 and that doesn't happen very often. Sorry but for me there's more that goes into considering a season successful.
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Absolutely agree that all of the wins count, but in judging the season, it's always about more than pure wins and loses. Without the NW and WSU wins, last year would have been one of the most painful I've ever seen. The Iowa and Rutgers games were soooo awful. The team wasn't helped by the fact that their two most dominating performances were on the road. And I'll add that all the 1100 starts during prime weather also left a bad taste in my mouth...
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
When have I ever said 'wins don't count'? Not once. 2014 was a better season in pretty much every way other than the final win total was 8 and not 9.

But I'm supposed to be impressed because the final total was 9 and that doesn't happen very often. Sorry but for me there's more that goes into considering a season successful.
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Spot on. 2014 was a much bigger success than this past year and it's not close. Who you beat matters. Beating rivals matters. Winning at Michigan, at Nebrasksa, beating Iowa 51-14, losing to the eventual national champ by just a touchdown. 2014 had three wins better than the best win of this past season.
 

How many wins does Fleck have at Minnesota?
He may, eventually, get more than 9. He may, eventually, beat Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, etc, but at present it's just projected wishful thinking. Even if Fleck meets all those wishes it doesn't mean I have to like his egotistical, self-serving personality. It just means I am happy the Gophers are winning.
 

Isn't this thread a bit premature, Fleck hasn't coached a Gopher game yet, next November it will make sense, there will be actual comparisons to be made.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
When have I ever said 'wins don't count'? Not once. 2014 was a better season in pretty much every way other than the final win total was 8 and not 9.

But I'm supposed to be impressed because the final total was 9 and that doesn't happen very often. Sorry but for me there's more that goes into considering a season successful.
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The fact that you use the word "impressed" and "successful" in the same sentence when referencing a season coached by TC is progress.
 

GoldenGopherTilTheEnd said:
Absolutely agree that all of the wins count, but in judging the season, it's always about more than pure wins and loses. 1.Without the NW and WSU wins, last year would have been one of the most painful I've ever seen. The Iowa and Rutgers games were soooo awful. The team wasn't helped by the fact that their two most dominating performances were on the road. And I'll add that all the 1100 starts during prime weather also left a bad taste in my mouth...
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1: You haven't seen a lot of Gopher Football seasons have you? Your surprise at the 11:00 starts clinches the idea.

2: If the Gophers would have held their 3rd Quarter leads against Iowa and WI, then it would have gone down as one of their finest seasons in the last 50 years! But that didn't happen and the wins against NW and WSU did.

I'm pretty confident that Fleck can end-up with a good career here at Minnesota, but with the way too many Gopher uh, fans go out of their way to smear past coaches doesn't bode well for him.
 

I honestly feel like there's a better than even chance we beat Iowa, PSU, and maybe hold off Wisconsin if Lingen was healthy and played. We needed just a little more production particularly vs Iowa and Wisconsin.

I can only speculate, but Leidner really missed having Lingen running down the seam, etc. it's those little things that can prevent #specialseason.

The defense when not hamstrung was pretty good last year. Good enough for a Big Ten championship berth.
 

GoldenGopherTilTheEnd said:
Without the NW and WSU wins, last year would have been one of the most painful I've ever seen.
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Sure. Take away the wins against IL, Purdue, MD, and Rutgers as well and it was even worse. Take away those non-conference "wins" in addition and it was maybe the worst in our entire history.


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Wasn't Buttgers a loss last season?
 


Iceland12 said:
1: You haven't seen a lot of Gopher Football seasons have you? Your surprise at the 11:00 starts clinches the idea.

2: If the Gophers would have held their 3rd Quarter leads against Iowa and WI, then it would have gone down as one of their finest seasons in the last 50 years! But that didn't happen and the wins against NW and WSU did.

I'm pretty confident that Fleck can end-up with a good career here at Minnesota, but with the way too many Gopher uh, fans go out of their way to smear past coaches doesn't bode well for him.
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Well said.
 

I don't think Fleck will be successful as a coach because he got a divorce. It tells me a lot about him as a person even though I've never spoke to him.
 


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