Claeys Vs Fleck

There's nothing to agree on, it is a fact. The 2014 recruiting class is this years SR's and RS JR's. There were 22 commits. 10 of them are not even on the roster. Another 5 either don't play or have played sparingly. That's missing on nearly 70% of a recruiting class, which should be the leadership and foundation of this year's team.

That is the #1 reason why my expectations are low for this season and has nothing to do with who's coaching them.

So, because these players haven't broken through yet, as RS Jrs, they have nothing to offer?

The Wide Receivers haven't developed/stayed healthy. Is that because the suck? maybe it was the coaching. I'm not ready to give up on Holland or Gentry just yet. They may never be #1 Wide Receivers, but they still have 2 years of eligibility, some speed, and it does take some kids longer to develop than others. But hey, let's give up on em, right?

Smith, Stelter, Richardson, Poock, Celestine, Lingen, Wyler are all quality starters. That's 32% of the starting line-up. Should it be more, Maybe/Maybe not, but you're dismissing some quality players out of hand in your "factual" analysis.

Everett Williams has played and at times looked really good. At times looked lost. He redshirted last year. Could he develop further and make an impact? He's shown he can play. Can he put it all together? If nothing else, he's quality depth at a strong position for the team.

Guys that were projects: Moore and Gibson both came in as projects. Both have been getting bigger and more phyically mature. Are they going to be all Big Ten? It doesn't look like it so far, and since no developmental player has ever, in the history of the Big Ten become something in the final two years of football, I can understand why you've written them off already.

So that's twelve.

Then there is Elmore and Mayes. And both of them left because recruiting was bad, right? Say what you will about either of them, but they started and were depth. Where they a factor of being bad, or something else? Is them being gone on them? The Coaches, The Admin? In your factual evaluation you kind of glossed over this.

So that leaves 7 players who left the team (one of the players never enrolled) out of 21....or is it 6 out of 20?.

According to articles about his transfer, McKinzey was a walk-on, not a scholarship player, so should he count? (He starts now for Northeastern State in (OK) in the MIAA conference (DII), BTW).

1 total rock head that was worth the gamble and flamed out (Jones).
1 who played very little didn't develop and graduates this spring so left the game of Football (Kafo)
1 who had some family issues and transfered to Southern Illinois and played all of last season there (James)
1 who transfered because he wanted to play QB (Krizancic) and subsequently left football after having another concussion (issue here?)
2 who I don't know what happened to. (Rasmussen and Gant).

So, was the class as bad as you want it to factually be? I'm not arguing this was a great class, but it is far from the total recruiting disaster you stated and should have two more starters/quality depth bringing the total contributors to the class to 41% of the starting positions. There were a few issues there and some players may never pan out, but overall through basically their first three years, the class has delivered a lot of quality starts, and may have more to show for itself in the next two years.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your narrative.

And note, this is not for or against any coach past our future, it simply takes a different look at the class that has you so downhearted on this season without an agenda.
 



My bad for pointing out this was the first year a Gopher football coach was at Goldy's Run (let alone actually run it). Does that make me a troll? This board is ridiculous.

It certainly doesn't make you a troll. It simply means you point out absolutely meaningless information on GH.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

It certainly doesn't make you a troll. It simply means you point out absolutely meaningless information on GH.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah screw being involved with the community!!!!!!!
 


Yeah screw being involved with the community!!!!!!!

He showed up at a for profit event to promote his brand. It's not like he visited the Children's Hospital. I think it is great he is promoting Gopher Football anywhere and everywhere - but not sure this qualifies as "involved with the community". Seems a lot of GH posters were there too - glad they are involved in the community as well?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

He showed up at a for profit event to promote his brand. It's not like he visited the Children's Hospital. I think it is great he is promoting Gopher Football anywhere and everywhere - but not sure this qualifies as "involved with the community". Seems a lot of GH posters were there too - glad they are involved in the community as well?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The GH posters are a part of the community... Do you need a definition of community? You do know it benefits the children's hospital right?
 

So, because these players haven't broken through yet, as RS Jrs, they have nothing to offer?

The Wide Receivers haven't developed/stayed healthy. Is that because the suck? maybe it was the coaching. I'm not ready to give up on Holland or Gentry just yet. They may never be #1 Wide Receivers, but they still have 2 years of eligibility, some speed, and it does take some kids longer to develop than others. But hey, let's give up on em, right?

Smith, Stelter, Richardson, Poock, Celestine, Lingen, Wyler are all quality starters. That's 32% of the starting line-up. Should it be more, Maybe/Maybe not, but you're dismissing some quality players out of hand in your "factual" analysis.

Everett Williams has played and at times looked really good. At times looked lost. He redshirted last year. Could he develop further and make an impact? He's shown he can play. Can he put it all together? If nothing else, he's quality depth at a strong position for the team.

Guys that were projects: Moore and Gibson both came in as projects. Both have been getting bigger and more phyically mature. Are they going to be all Big Ten? It doesn't look like it so far, and since no developmental player has ever, in the history of the Big Ten become something in the final two years of football, I can understand why you've written them off already.

So that's twelve.

Then there is Elmore and Mayes. And both of them left because recruiting was bad, right? Say what you will about either of them, but they started and were depth. Where they a factor of being bad, or something else? Is them being gone on them? The Coaches, The Admin? In your factual evaluation you kind of glossed over this.

So that leaves 7 players who left the team (one of the players never enrolled) out of 21....or is it 6 out of 20?.

According to articles about his transfer, McKinzey was a walk-on, not a scholarship player, so should he count? (He starts now for Northeastern State in (OK) in the MIAA conference (DII), BTW).

1 total rock head that was worth the gamble and flamed out (Jones).
1 who played very little didn't develop and graduates this spring so left the game of Football (Kafo)
1 who had some family issues and transfered to Southern Illinois and played all of last season there (James)
1 who transfered because he wanted to play QB (Krizancic) and subsequently left football after having another concussion (issue here?)
2 who I don't know what happened to. (Rasmussen and Gant).

So, was the class as bad as you want it to factually be? I'm not arguing this was a great class, but it is far from the total recruiting disaster you stated and should have two more starters/quality depth bringing the total contributors to the class to 41% of the starting positions. There were a few issues there and some players may never pan out, but overall through basically their first three years, the class has delivered a lot of quality starts, and may have more to show for itself in the next two years.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your narrative.

And note, this is not for or against any coach past our future, it simply takes a different look at the class that has you so downhearted on this season without an agenda.

What agenda do I have? None. I'm a fan of the Gophers and I want them to finish higher than 4th in the Big Ten West. It would also be awesome to flat out win the west and beat a few rivals along the way.

You're really grasping for straws with several of those players, but hey at least you made it an entire post without talking about firing Coyle and Kaler. That's a first.
 

The GH posters are a part of the community... Do you need a definition of community? You do know it benefits the children's hospital right?

It's like talking to a rock. I didn't dispute what community is just what "involved with the community" should mean. Whatever man. It is clear that PJF could walk around campus slashing tires and you would somehow think it was the greatest thing anyone could have ever done. I'm glad you like that he was at Goldy's run. I'm glad you think he is giving back to the community by being there. Great. Splendid. Elite. I'm glad he was there too - just not gonna pretend it was anything other than what it was. I might go to Walgreens tomorrow and wave at the pharmacist - you know, get involved in the community.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 



It's like talking to a rock. I didn't dispute what community is just what "involved with the community" should mean. Whatever man. It is clear that PJF could walk around campus slashing tires and you would somehow think it was the greatest thing anyone could have ever done. I'm glad you like that he was at Goldy's run. I'm glad you think he is giving back to the community by being there. Great. Splendid. Elite. I'm glad he was there too - just not gonna pretend it was anything other than what it was. I might go to Walgreens tomorrow and wave at the pharmacist - you know, get involved in the community.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Scarf guy's tires?
 

It's like talking to a rock. I didn't dispute what community is just what "involved with the community" should mean. Whatever man. It is clear that PJF could walk around campus slashing tires and you would somehow think it was the greatest thing anyone could have ever done. I'm glad you like that he was at Goldy's run. I'm glad you think he is giving back to the community by being there. Great. Splendid. Elite. I'm glad he was there too - just not gonna pretend it was anything other than what it was. I might go to Walgreens tomorrow and wave at the pharmacist - you know, get involved in the community.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's not very nice :(

1. Slashing tires would definitely not be elite.

2. I'm just disputing the fact that it was for profit and wasn't being involved in the community. Do you like children's hospitals? Because I do :)

3. If you volunteer to pick up trash around your local Walgreens then that is definitely being involved in the community :)
 

What agenda do I have? None. I'm a fan of the Gophers and I want them to finish higher than 4th in the Big Ten West. It would also be awesome to flat out win the west and beat a few rivals along the way.

You're really grasping for straws with several of those players, but hey at least you made it an entire post without talking about firing Coyle and Kaler. That's a first.

Not a first at all. Was here long before Kaler, Coyle or you. Will be here long after you as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

It's like talking to a rock. I didn't dispute what community is just what "involved with the community" should mean. Whatever man. It is clear that PJF could walk around campus slashing tires and you would somehow think it was the greatest thing anyone could have ever done. I'm glad you like that he was at Goldy's run. I'm glad you think he is giving back to the community by being there. Great. Splendid. Elite. I'm glad he was there too - just not gonna pretend it was anything other than what it was. I might go to Walgreens tomorrow and wave at the pharmacist - you know, get involved in the community.

Nope; it's like talking to a click whore.
 




Yep. Exchanging messages with you certainly is "like talking to a click whore".

But you got a click didn't yah, you little troll you. :D

I don't own GH sadly so I couldn't care less who clicks on my post you lil troll.
 


Troll: One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers.
 


As this thread reaches page 14 I have to laugh that someone started a thread titled "Claeys vs Fleck" with a request for folks not to discuss Claeys vs Fleck. It really is priceless.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

As this thread reaches page 18 I have to laugh that someone started a thread titled "Claeys vs Fleck" with a request for folks not to discuss Claeys vs Fleck. It really is priceless.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

FIFY
+1
 


What agenda do I have? None. I'm a fan of the Gophers and I want them to finish higher than 4th in the Big Ten West. It would also be awesome to flat out win the west and beat a few rivals along the way.

You're really grasping for straws with several of those players, but hey at least you made it an entire post without talking about firing Coyle and Kaler. That's a first.

You said 70% left, but 41% became starters. I don't know what happened with James, but he would've been a starter here. Gentry has been hurt for most of his time here. The jury is still out on how much those listed below under "backups" will contribute, but they'll contribute.

Teams always have a few in the class who don't make it for whatever reason. Seven seems high. But that's a nice list of starters that we're going to miss.

Starters
Jared Weyler
Jonathan Celestin
Rodney Smith
Brandon Lingen
Andrew Stelter
Connor Mayes
Gaelin Elmore
Steven Richardson
Cody Poock

Played as true freshmen
Craig James
Isaiah Gentry

Backups so far
Jerry Gibson
Melvin Holland Jr.
Gary Moore
Everett Williams

Did not contribute
Dimonic McKinzy
Jeff Jones
Luke Rasmussen
Julien Kafo
Conner Krizancic
Desmond Gant
Rashaun Croney
 

You said 70% left, but 41% became starters. I don't know what happened with James, but he would've been a starter here. Gentry has been hurt for most of his time here. The jury is still out on how much those listed below under "backups" will contribute, but they'll contribute.

Teams always have a few in the class who don't make it for whatever reason. Seven seems high. But that's a nice list of starters that we're going to miss.

Starters
Jared Weyler
Jonathan Celestin
Rodney Smith
Brandon Lingen
Andrew Stelter
Connor Mayes
Gaelin Elmore
Steven Richardson
Cody Poock

Played as true freshmen
Craig James
Isaiah Gentry

Backups so far
Jerry Gibson
Melvin Holland Jr.
Gary Moore
Everett Williams

Did not contribute
Dimonic McKinzy
Jeff Jones
Luke Rasmussen
Julien Kafo
Conner Krizancic
Desmond Gant
Rashaun Croney

It doesn't matter what could have been. I'm speaking directly about what is left from that class for this year's team.

Of the players you listed Mayes and Elmore are gone. James has been gone for a couple of years. Lingen is a big question mark due to his injures. Gentry, Gibson, Holland, Moore, and Williams have contributed little to nothing the last 3 years. That leaves 6-7 guys that will likely start this year. The 5 others are big ?s or backups. 6-7 starters out of 22 recruits is a low number.
 

It doesn't matter what could have been. I'm speaking directly about what is left from that class for this year's team.

Of the players you listed Mayes and Elmore are gone. James has been gone for a couple of years. Lingen is a big question mark due to his injures. Gentry, Gibson, Holland, Moore, and Williams have contributed little to nothing the last 3 years. That leaves 6-7 guys that will likely start this year. The 5 others are big ?s or backups. 6-7 starters out of 22 recruits is a low number.

Mayes and Elmore leaving during Fleck's spring practice is on Claeys? Or Kill? There were nine starters and that's not debatable.
 

And every program has guys leave. Those 7 scholarships went to Jacob and Julian Huff, Rashad Still, Blake Cashman, Shannon Brooks, Demry Croft and Jaylen Waters.
 

And every program has guys leave. Those 7 scholarships went to Jacob and Julian Huff, Rashad Still, Blake Cashman, Shannon Brooks, Demry Croft and Jaylen Waters.

+1.
 

Mayes and Elmore leaving during Fleck's spring practice is on Claeys? Or Kill? There were nine starters and that's not debatable.

I'm not saying it's on anyone, I'm talking about the talent that's left on this year's team.
 

And every program has guys leave. Those 7 scholarships went to Jacob and Julian Huff, Rashad Still, Blake Cashman, Shannon Brooks, Demry Croft and Jaylen Waters.

Say what? Outside of Cashman all of those guys were scholarship guys the following class. Those guys being recruited had nothing to do with anyone leaving. Cashman doesn't even have a scholarship yet.
 

I'm not saying it's on anyone, I'm talking about the talent that's left on this year's team.
Actually, you said it's on Kill. And you were talking about the 2014 recruiting class. Your quote:

"Go back and look at the 2013 and 2014 recruiting classes which make up this year's redshirt Seniors, true Seniors, and redshirt Juniors. There were far more misses than hits in those classes, and is the exact reason why we have the current holes in the roster.
 

Actually, you said it's on Kill. And you were talking about the 2014 recruiting class. Your quote:

"Go back and look at the 2013 and 2014 recruiting classes which make up this year's redshirt Seniors, true Seniors, and redshirt Juniors. There were far more misses than hits in those classes, and is the exact reason why we have the current holes in the roster.

Right, and I should have worded my last post better. What I meant is I'm not saying this to further argue about Fleck vs Kill vs Claeys. What's left of that class is one of the major reason's why I don't think they'll win as many games this year.
 




Top Bottom