Claeys Vs Fleck

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GopherWeatherGuy said:
Sure there's a lot of reason's they might not win 7 this year. #1 is talent. The Gophers have had 2-4 players drafted in the NFL the last 3 years and that'll likely happen again at the end of April. On top of that they've had several end up on practice squads as undrafted free agents. How many of next year's SR's will be drafted or have any NFL potential? It's possible they won't have any. Lingen is their best shot, but he has to stay healthy, and that's a big if right now. Richardson is a good player but he's 5'10" and I can't remember the last time a DT that was that short made it. That's it. But sure this upcoming team is super talented and deep...

I didn't have to sound alarms about Claeys losing recruits in March because he didn't have any verbal commits before April. What standards have changed?
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So, you're saying Kill and Claeys brought in some talent? Glad you can at least admit that. They have a lot of talent returning, but that doesn't fit your narrative beacaue you want to give Fleck a pass. If Claeys had returned you would have been calling for 10 wins. You are not worth the time.


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MennoSota said:
I know he divorced his wife and married another woman less than a year later. I know that's not called faithfulness.
Fleck is free to do what he wants. I hope he is an amazing coach at UMN. That doesn't mean I have to like him more than I like Claeys. Claeys is a very likeable person.
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Yes because of claeys' amazing long term relationship with his wife is such a paradigm. Oh wait...maybe we can't compare personal lives as Tracy would return to his man cave each night. This is so asinine and it needs to stop. You don't know the burden another man carries and for you to dwell on this pathological.


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You guys who think character is irrelevant are being willfully ignorant, just because you think Fleck is the answer here. Do yourself a favor, do some research, you will find plenty of evidence that we have some damaged goods.

Nobody is perfect, but then they don't pretend to be like this guy. Maybe he'll get wins and we all will be happy, right?
 

Gopherphile said:
Yes because of claeys' amazing long term relationship with his wife is such a paradigm. Oh wait...maybe we can't compare personal lives as Tracy would return to his man cave each night. This is so asinine and it needs to stop. You don't know the burden another man carries and for you to dwell on this pathological.


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You are not required to make your decision about the two men by the same requirements and I am not required to follow your assessment. That's what makes life great. I would enjoy Claeys company more than Fleck's. That is what the thread is about. Would you enjoy Fleck's company better than Claeys?
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
So, you're saying Kill and Claeys brought in some talent? Glad you can at least admit that. They have a lot of talent returning, but that doesn't fit your narrative beacaue you want to give Fleck a pass. If Claeys had returned you would have been calling for 10 wins. You are not worth the time.


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There are serious question marks to say the least at DE, DB, WR, OL, and QB. You agree with that?
 


Not really. No more question marks than most college teams have. College football is about transitions. We have players to step in at each of those positions, with the most important one being QB. However, every college team has to fill a QB position every couple of years. Again, I want to see Fleck be successful, but I'm not going to join the narrative of giving him a pass when a strong foundation was in place. The same people wanting to give Fleck a pass would have been holding Claeys and staff to 9 or 10 wins. They can't have it both ways.
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
So, you're saying Kill and Claeys brought in some talent? Glad you can at least admit that. They have a lot of talent returning, but that doesn't fit your narrative beacaue you want to give Fleck a pass. If Claeys had returned you would have been calling for 10 wins. You are not worth the time.
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You are completely wrong about my thoughts on Kill/Claeys and about the talent next year. Never had a problem with Kill as the head coach and Claeys as the the defensive coordinator.

This will be the least talented team since the first few years of the Kill era. Go back and look at the 2013 and 2014 recruiting classes which make up this year's redshirt Seniors, true Seniors, and redshirt Juniors. There were far more misses than hits in those classes, and is the exact reason why we have the current holes in the roster.

You're just such a blind Claeys supporter you refuse to see the reality of the situation. And no that's not just Claeys fault. It was Kill's and the previous assistants faults too.
 

I am not a Claeys supporter, little do you know. I really have a problem with some people not having any respect for the work the staff did. I was not sold on Claeys as a head coach, but think he did a decent job in the year he had. That said, I do think there is plenty of talent returning for a successful year (I'm not saying 10 wins), and do not agree on all of the misses you reference.

I hope Fleck is highly successful, simply because he is our coach.
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
I am not a Claeys supporter, little do you know. I really have a problem with some people not having any respect for the work the staff did. I was not sold on Claeys as a head coach, but think he did a decent job in the year he had. That said, I do think there is plenty of talent returning for a successful year (I'm not saying 10 wins), and do not agree on all of the misses you reference.

I hope Fleck is highly successful, simply because he is our coach.
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There's nothing to agree on, it is a fact. The 2014 recruiting class is this years SR's and RS JR's. There were 22 commits. 10 of them are not even on the roster. Another 5 either don't play or have played sparingly. That's missing on nearly 70% of a recruiting class, which should be the leadership and foundation of this year's team.

That is the #1 reason why my expectations are low for this season and has nothing to do with who's coaching them.
 



Cleays never wanted Gindorff and that pissed me off! His name kept getting brought up in recruiting meetings and Cleays kept hmmm maybe. Soon as PJ got here he was all over this kid but he already committed to NDSU. Sawvell and Kill the minute they got jobs they were all over Gindorff. He wanted to be a gopher but jefk around by Cleays. This kid is a clone of John Carlson probably more athletic.
 

13 of Fleck's first recruiting class at WMU in 2013 were not around last fall.

Also seven from his second and five each from third and fourth.
 

Broncos181973 said:
13 of Fleck's first recruiting class at WMU in 2013 were not around last fall.

Also seven from his second and five each from third and fourth.
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Wait...what, that doesn't only happen to the Gophs?
 

Well at least no body cares about Mason vs whoever now, the real question is can the Kill/Claeys debate have a ten year run? As much as I think Claeys got screwed it be nice if Fleck won big, I also think getting rid of Kaler would go a long way in the healing process as well. There's a dark cloud around this program and the only way it's going to go away is by winning. Unfortunately as far as this year goes it'll probably get worse before it gets better, but this team can still go to a bowl game, even with it's position warts
 



Broncos181973 said:
13 of Fleck's first recruiting class at WMU in 2013 were not around last fall.

Also seven from his second and five each from third and fourth.
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Like basketball, 2017 is an era of transfers. I'm ok with it as coaches can leave and be fired constantly. NFL teams consist of 63 players. 8-10 practice squad and 53 actice roster. They dress 46 for games.

College has 100 players and 85 on scholarship. You really only need to hit on 10-15 per class to stay consistent. That gives you 50-60 chances at developing and hitting on depth. The issue is that OL and DL players do not grow on trees and you're recruiting against 120 other teams. You need about 40 of these guys to build depth and competition to be successful. This will dictate the next couple seasons on the field.
 

Broncos181973 said:
13 of Fleck's first recruiting class at WMU in 2013 were not around last fall.

Also seven from his second and five each from third and fourth.
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This wasn't Kill's first recruiting class, it was his fourth. Yes there are misses in every class, but 15 is an extremely high number. First recruiting classes that are built in only a few weeks usually have more misses. I'm sure he'll miss on several that were recruited to Minnesota this year. 15 is only 2 less than PJ missed in his second, third, and fourth classes combined.

How many true freshman did PJ start at Western Michigan against Wisconsin in the Cotton Bowl? 0. I guarantee that number is higher at Minnesota this year.
 

Would Make One Damn Long Thread

Here are a few of the threads that featured a lot of "Fleck vs. Claeys". Not as many as it felt there was, but probably missed some. Turns out it's also was a way to identify trolls too. Though that has been pretty easy just by reading normally hasn't it? :cool:

http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/boards/showthread.php?75181-PJ-Fleck-s-FOOTBALL-thread

http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/boards/forumdisplay.php?2-7-National-Titles-Football-Forum/page6

http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/boards/forumdisplay.php?2-7-National-Titles-Football-Forum/page9

http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/bo...oyle-on-Fleck-Claeys-Boycott-Culture-and-more

http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/boards/forumdisplay.php?2-7-National-Titles-Football-Forum/page10

http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/boards/showthread.php?73771-Fleck-s-Minnesota-tenure

Here's one that morphed into attacks on Kill:

http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/bo...J-Fleck-making-believers-out-of-local-coaches

http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/bo...announces-he-s-transferring-to-Oklahoma-State

And for a little "escape", here's a thread about Fleck that turned into a KFAN discussion:

http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/boards/showthread.php?73499-Welcome-to-BIG-BOY-Football
 

bemidjigopher said:
Well at least no body cares about Mason vs whoever now, the real question is can the Kill/Claeys debate have a ten year run? As much as I think Claeys got screwed it be nice if Fleck won big, I also think getting rid of Kaler would go a long way in the healing process as well. There's a dark cloud around this program and the only way it's going to go away is by winning. Unfortunately as far as this year goes it'll probably get worse before it gets better, but this team can still go to a bowl game, even with it's position warts
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5-7 gets us in. [emoji41]
 





GoldenAle said:
My bad for pointing out this was the first year a Gopher football coach was at Goldy's Run (let alone actually run it). Does that make me a troll? This board is ridiculous.
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I think they're just identifying how often the topic comes up.
 


GoldenAle said:
My bad for pointing out this was the first year a Gopher football coach was at Goldy's Run (let alone actually run it). Does that make me a troll? This board is ridiculous.
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I think they're just identifying how often the topic comes up.
 







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