All things 2017 Minnesota boys high school tourney

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jovs said:
It's called fund raising, you win you can tout your success to your donors and you are creating a tradition.

Not sure if it is true but I had heard that the alumni from their heyday, the 50's, 60's, and 70's have donated a ton of money to the school.

Also, it helps with recruiting athletes and non athletes to the school when you win.
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Yeah but how long has DLS dominated? They've built a tradition now, and I'd bet they'd still win a state title every once in a while in 4A. It's not like they're gonna move up and never compete. And like I said, if you don't win enough for your liking, you can always move back down in 2 years.
 

Wow, what a finish in the Champlin Park/Chaska game:

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Go Gophers!!
 

jovs said:
It's called fund raising, you win you can tout your success to your donors and you are creating a tradition.

Not sure if it is true but I had heard that the alumni from their heyday, the 50's, 60's, and 70's have donated a ton of money to the school.

Also, it helps with recruiting athletes and non athletes to the school when you win.
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Yep plus DeLasalle is already playing up, they have the enrollment to be in 1A so I don't have a huge problem with them.
 

march madness said:
Kevin and Kyle Noreen come to mind as kids who put up huge stats at a small school who didn't have the athleticism to excel in division 1. Same story for the Broman brothers now at Winthrop. The Dahlman brothers too.

In defense of people grasping at straws, there were times we needed shooting and had depleted rosters.

I do believe there is a better track record for those players playing division 1 who are from 4A or 3A schools putting up good numbers in college.

(McHale) Back in those days was Hibbing considered a small school?
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It was also a one class tournament wasn't it?
 

Chaska nearly pulls the upset on Champlin Park. Looking at the live stats it seems a role player for Champlin hit a last second 3 pointer to win it, 53-50.
 


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Go Gophers!!
 

No game clock shown during the streaming of the Champlin Park / Chaska game, makes it kind of hard to watch. Other games the same? Haven't checked.
 

march madness said:
Kevin and Kyle Noreen come to mind as kids who put up huge stats at a small school who didn't have the athleticism to excel in division 1. Same story for the Broman brothers now at Winthrop. The Dahlman brothers too.

In defense of people grasping at straws, there were times we needed shooting and had depleted rosters.

I do believe there is a better track record for those players playing division 1 who are from 4A or 3A schools putting up good numbers in college.

(McHale) Back in those days was Hibbing considered a small school?
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Hibbing had a population of about 15,000. They played in big school (AA) in '76. Hibbing probably would have won the tourney, but their point guard got injured in the semifinal game.
 

I just finished watching the McKinley Wright show at Target Center. While I'm sure he'll be a good D1 player, he didn't showcase much ability to create for his teammates. All of his (second half) points came from within 7 feet of the basket and at the free throw line. It was really hard to see his game immediately translating to college hoops. I think he'll struggle in the beginning against players that can muscle up with him, especially since he's slightly undersized.

Compared with the little bit of game footage I've seen for Isaiah Washington, it seems like we got the more college ready player. I think they'll both end up being quite good, but Washington's passing ability and ball handling ability will set him apart IMO.
 




march madness said:
Precisely why AAU is so important for outstate kids.

The 6-10 kid is Jessie Bergh. He is solid but its hard to tell as he typically is playing against a 6-5 guy.
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Bergh recently committed to MSU-Moorhead. He's only played organized ball for 2.5 years. He's a home-school kid, walked in the coaches office his sophomore year wanting to play.
 

While I don't normally get enjoyment out of watching high school players lose, it was somewhat enjoyable to watch Reuvers go out in the first round. He wasn't much of a factor down the stretch, and certainly didn't show any level of dominance late in the game. I could certainly get used to watching him lose though.....
 

adchester said:
Yeah but how long has DLS dominated? They've built a tradition now, and I'd bet they'd still win a state title every once in a while in 4A. It's not like they're gonna move up and never compete. And like I said, if you don't win enough for your liking, you can always move back down in 2 years.
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DLS is already playing up. When we dominated 2A the talk was that it wouldn't happen in 3A and it has. It won't always be that way but we're already competing with schools 3 times our size. Other schools are welcome to step their game up
 



There have been some close games so far today.
I want to see the final score between Red Lake and Mpls North tomorrow. I won't be surprised if both teams break the century mark.
 

oleboy41 said:
DLS is already playing up. When we dominated 2A the talk was that it wouldn't happen in 3A and it has. It won't always be that way but we're already competing with schools 3 times our size. Other schools are welcome to step their game up
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Sure, let's just have other schools recruit the top athletes in the metro to play on one team. [emoji41] [emoji57]
 

MennoSota said:
Sure, let's just have other schools recruit the top athletes in the metro to play on one team. [emoji41] [emoji57]
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In this age of open enrollment its a lot easier for the large public schools in the burbs to recruit than it is DLS. De won back to back titles while I was there when our best player (and only D1 player) went to NW. They win due to culture and coaching. Talent plays a part but it wasn't until the last 5 years or so when they had teams with multiple D1 guys
 

MennoSota said:
Sure, let's just have other schools recruit the top athletes in the metro to play on one team. [emoji41] [emoji57]
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Haha this is spot on! Sure, DLS is smaller than other 3A schools. They can also actively recruit any kid willing to come play there. Tough to say touting 5 straight state championships to teenagers all across the metro doesn't give them the slightest advantage over whatever talent happens to roll thru Fergus Falls, MN...
 

oleboy41 said:
In this age of open enrollment its a lot easier for the large public schools in the burbs to recruit than it is DLS. De won back to back titles while I was there when our best player (and only D1 player) went to NW. They win due to culture and coaching. Talent plays a part but it wasn't until the last 5 years or so when they had teams with multiple D1 guys
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Oh great so you agree that their last 5 state championships HAVE been because they can recruit D1 kids to come there... glad everyone's on the same page ;)
 

MennoSota said:
Hibbing had a population of about 15,000. They played in big school (AA) in '76. Hibbing probably would have won the tourney, but their point guard got injured in the semifinal game.
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And, McHale got schooled by Steve Lingenfelter of Bloom Jefferson in final. He also went to the U, 6'8" hook shot artist. Also played in NBA.

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MennoSota said:
There have been some close games so far today.
I want to see the final score between Red Lake and Mpls North tomorrow. I won't be surprised if both teams break the century mark.
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If Red Lake scores 100, North will have 150.

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oleboy41 said:
In this age of open enrollment its a lot easier for the large public schools in the burbs to recruit than it is DLS. De won back to back titles while I was there when our best player (and only D1 player) went to NW. They win due to culture and coaching. Talent plays a part but it wasn't until the last 5 years or so when they had teams with multiple D1 guys
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Remember, Maple Grove is here because of two DI players. Lakeville w 1, Andover doesn't even have a DII talent, Chaska 1, Wayzata-no DII, Cretin w 1, Apple Valley w 1. DLS has at least 3.

De is capable of winning 4A. They have 4A players. Alot of good culture and coaching here, their talent is the most important of the three variables you mention.

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LM21 said:
Haha this is spot on! Sure, DLS is smaller than other 3A schools. They can also actively recruit any kid willing to come play there. Tough to say touting 5 straight state championships to teenagers all across the metro doesn't give them the slightest advantage over whatever talent happens to roll thru Fergus Falls, MN...
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Name a school in the metro that can't recruit any kid willing to go there? Kids can basically go wherever they want. Your argument now is that their success gives them an unfair advantage? LOL
 

LM21 said:
Oh great so you agree that their last 5 state championships HAVE been because they can recruit D1 kids to come there... glad everyone's on the same page ;)
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Sure, why not? DLS was successful for 20 years before they got a team with multiple D1 players. Now they're successful WITH more talent. That said they also put more work into the program than most anyone around. Constantly hosting camps and training players, they have 2 freshman teams that win that are filled with guys that will never contribute much on Varsity if they ever make it. You say 'recruit' like its something to be ashamed of when the reality is that all these schools want to have good programs and DLS just does it better than most WHILE the kids that come out of there are excellent fundamental players and well equipped students.
 

principalguy said:
Remember, Maple Grove is here because of two DI players. Lakeville w 1, Andover doesn't even have a DII talent, Chaska 1, Wayzata-no DII, Cretin w 1, Apple Valley w 1. DLS has at least 3.

De is capable of winning 4A. They have 4A players. Alot of good culture and coaching here, their talent is the most important of the three variables you mention.

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And that talent varies. Nobody cried about De being in 3A the years they weren't winning titles. Now that they have talent its a problem. But if they don't have another D1 guy for 2-3 years nobody will care again. You don't punish teams for being successful unless you're scared to compete. Again, all these schools have way more students than De so if they can't compete that's on them. They're pointing to the smallest team in 3A and crying about fairness. Truth is the real issue is that outstate schools suck at basketball in many instances and that's really it.
 

oleboy41 said:
Name a school in the metro that can't recruit any kid willing to go there? Kids can basically go wherever they want. Your argument now is that their success gives them an unfair advantage? LOL
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You're right. If the kids move to that city or transfer before 9th grade starts. Whereas you can leave Eden Prairie as a junior and play for DLS the next day without sitting out cause "private school religion rule" or whatever.

Your argument is tired and old.
 

oleboy41 said:
Name a school in the metro that can't recruit any kid willing to go there? Kids can basically go wherever they want. Your argument now is that their success gives them an unfair advantage? LOL
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The real question is why they're content to compete for the JV title. I'd much rather play in the big-time games against the best competition.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
You're right. If the kids move to that city or transfer before 9th grade starts. Whereas you can leave Eden Prairie as a junior and play for DLS the next day without sitting out cause "private school religion rule" or whatever.

Your argument is tired and old.
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That's a random argument seeing how none of the college level players at D have transferred in. The last guy to do so was Alan Anderson like 15 years ago. LOL at my argument being tired and old when you have to use a non existent scenario to discredit it. Not to mention that there are plenty of other private schools in the area players could transfer into as well. De doesn't have a corner on any player market. You're essentially just being a hater right now
 

AO54 said:
The real question is why they're content to compete for the JV title. I'd much rather play in the big-time games against the best competition.
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That's a silly argument. Most states have different levels and its almost all based on enrollment. Most states also don't force teams to move up just because they're successful in their class. This whole argument is lame and uniquely Minnesotan. In a state where 95% of the best teams and players are from 1 metro area and most of the suburban schools in that area are in 1 class, the issue isn't DLS being good, its the rest of 3A sucking quite frankly. Plus De schedules the toughest competition they're allowed in the non con so the whole 'competition' argument is silly too. Its like trying to goad a boxer to move up 2 weight classes. All the haters today won't be petitioning De to move back down to 2A if the program takes a dip for a few seasons
 

oleboy41 said:
That's a silly argument. Most states have different levels and its almost all based on enrollment. Most states also don't force teams to move up just because they're successful in their class. This whole argument is lame and uniquely Minnesotan. In a state where 95% of the best teams and players are from 1 metro area and most of the suburban schools in that area are in 1 class, the issue isn't DLS being good, its the rest of 3A sucking quite frankly. Plus De schedules the toughest competition they're allowed in the non con so the whole 'competition' argument is silly too. Its like trying to goad a boxer to move up 2 weight classes. All the haters today won't be petitioning De to move back down to 2A if the program takes a dip for a few seasons
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I agree with you. I would think they would just WANT to competitively. Totino did it in FB. North is an entirely different story. They should go to 3A, as well as Minnehaha competitively. All these tourneys would then be awesome games. That's probably my biggest thing.

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oleboy41 said:
Sure, why not? DLS was successful for 20 years before they got a team with multiple D1 players. Now they're successful WITH more talent. That said they also put more work into the program than most anyone around. Constantly hosting camps and training players, they have 2 freshman teams that win that are filled with guys that will never contribute much on Varsity if they ever make it. You say 'recruit' like its something to be ashamed of when the reality is that all these schools want to have good programs and DLS just does it better than most WHILE the kids that come out of there are excellent fundamental players and well equipped students.
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I couldn't disagree more with the idea that any metro school could recruit kids. DLS is decidedly different because it's a private school. Saying that any kid who wants to can/would leave one public school and go to another just to play basketball is ridiculous and I think you know that. Private schools are a different model. Not saying that it's wrong, but it is an advantage.

So, now that we have established that DLS does have a recruiting advantage over other 3A schools, AND has just as much/more talent (heavily influenced by that recruiting advantage) than most 4A schools, I think we can all agree that your original comment that other small/mid-sized communities in/outside the metro should just "step up their game" is pretty ridiculous.

If DeLaSalle wants to keep playing in 3A there's not much from a rules standpoint that can be done about that. But it's pretty clear that they no longer belong there, and it's not because other schools just aren't working as hard as they should be.
 

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