Winfield and McCrary Cleared, Hardin's Expulsion upheld

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It is time to move on from this and focus on the team's success.

There is 100+ plus kids that did everything right.
 

Do we have a summary of what the initial punishments were, and where we stand now?
 

nsmike said:
I believe that the University process is complete any further action would need to be done thru a lawsuit, I believe the only lawsuit that can be filed is against the U, due to the restraining order settlement.
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Unless she violated the terms of the order. In any case, the smart move would be to leave her alone and go after the U for how terribly unfairly this was handled. Saw a great piece on Kaler helping a U student graduate early so that his terminally ill father could see it happen, and unfortunately, even though it reflects well on the U and Kaler, the difference between how they treated these five young men and that young man was one of the first things that came to mind (and, yes, the early graduate is a white kid).
 

nsmike said:
I believe that the University process is complete any further action would need to be done thru a lawsuit, I believe the only lawsuit that can be filed is against the U, due to the restraining order settlement.
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Yeah and suing her would open up the possibility that she can sue them... civil court uses a lower standard too, not sure anyone wants to go there.

I gotta think it would be best for both groups (the girl and the players) that they have nothing to do with each other and focus on healing / moving on.
 

nsmike said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the five initially charged were punished, and the five added after the EOAA investigation were cleared. That doesn't reflect well on the EOAA.
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Everyone should think about this. It speaks volumes about this process and what it is about.


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A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Yeah and suing her would open up the possibility that she can sue them... civil court uses a lower standard too, not sure anyone wants to go there.

I gotta think it would be best for both groups (the girl and the players) that they have nothing to do with each other and focus on healing / moving on.
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That is the only similarity. Civil trials have an entire host of defendant rights that are violated by the U's process. If these guys had any money I wouldn't put someone attempting a civil case out of the question but it's hard to squeeze money out of young guys that likely have zero assets, or less, and an accuser that has a story so shaky it would never hold up under questioning.
 

At this point, do any of the players even plan to sue? I think it is time to move on.

If they do, what are the odds of them winning? What are the ramifications?
 

hungan1 said:
At this point, do any of the players even plan to sue? I think it is time to move on.

If they do, what are the odds of them winning? What are the ramifications?
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The only lawsuits that I've seen all relate to players who were expelled or under some level of punishment and then got that punishment reversed.

I don't think I've seen anyone actually pick up any monetary damages or anything.

Every case and school is a bit different I'm sure but I'm thinking that might indicate the worth it factor to sue isn't very high if you've been cleared.
 

The important part is that everyone who wanted to rush to judgment and throw ideas of Due Process out the window didn't learn one damn thing from all this. Same as the Duke LaCrosse situation. The pitchforks are already back in the barn and torches extinguished and waiting for the next rush to judgment.

The UpNorth's of the world and the mom of that kid who called for Claey's head can dunk their head in the sand satisfied that once again they didn't have to use any critical thinking skills to examine the situation. Just raw self-righteousness and stupidity. I guess the rest of us just shake our heads and wait for the next situation......
 



Welcome to the age of social media and alternative truths.
 


Ski U Master said:
The U was always careful about not violating privacy policies. The only thing the U ever said with names attached was that the players had been suspended for the bowl game. All the dots were connected by reporters, the players themselves, or their lawyers and parents.
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They should not have released names. Michigan State didn't.


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GoldenGopherTilTheEnd said:
Unless she violated the terms of the order. In any case, the smart move would be to leave her alone and go after the U for how terribly unfairly this was handled. Saw a great piece on Kaler helping a U student graduate early so that his terminally ill father could see it happen, and unfortunately, even though it reflects well on the U and Kaler, the difference between how they treated these five young men and that young man was one of the first things that came to mind (and, yes, the early graduate is a white kid).
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I'm not a Kaler fan, but I don't see going after him with the race card in the case of the graduating student with the terminally ill father as fair game. I expect he would have done the same for a diverse student as well.
 



Ozzy&Ray said:
They should not have released names. Michigan State didn't.


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Perhaps not, but the way the names were released in no way spelled out a connection to the proceedings around the sexual assault investigation. Of course, everyone made the connection but it wasn't explicitly stated that way from the U and I think they kept separation that way from violating any privacy guidelines/policies.
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
They should not have released names. Michigan State didn't.


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Not yet.

Also let's be clear, we would have known anyway with the restrainning order.

And we would have seen them not playing....
 


bigticket1 said:
I'm not a Kaler fan, but I don't see going after him with the race card in the case of the graduating student with the terminally ill father as fair game. I expect he would have done the same for a diverse student as well.
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I wonder how this would have played if it would have been say, the wrestling team. I don't think it goes down this way. And Kaler has an obligation to protect all historically disadvantaged groups, including both women students and black students.
 

Ski U Master said:
Perhaps not, but the way the names were released in no way spelled out a connection to the proceedings around the sexual assault investigation. Of course, everyone made the connection but it wasn't explicitly stated that way from the U and I think they kept separation that way from violating any privacy guidelines/policies.
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Kaler had all the evidence we eventually saw and more. With the clear contradictions between the Police and internal report (and the clear bias shown in the internal report on the credibilty and/or capability to recall of the victim), the just move would have been to suspend the five that were previously part of the suspension and restraining order (and had thus been publicly identified) while allowing the appeals to proceed. I think he didn't because he was more worried about the optics than treating fairly the five that were involved only on the periphery. And that will be what gets them a huge settlement of our money as post facto "justice".
 

I wonder if Djam is just going to move on. I can't imagine any new coach coming in really wants a walk-on with the baggage he has.

I also wonder if Hardin will now transfer. I'm a little surprised he even tried to appeal, just because it seemed like it was very unlikely he would have a chance.

I see on the football roster they list Mark Williams as a wide receiver. http://www.gophersports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/minn-m-footbl-mtt.html I'm not terribly surprised, not so much because of talent or lack thereof, but this team went from 2 QB (Croft and McLaurin before Fleck) to 8 (Croft, McLaurin, Rhoda, Morgan, Estes, Green, Williams and Samuel Pickerign) in almost no time. Obviously Pickerign as a walk-on is probably not a factor and though Estes is still listed as a QB I believe Fleck mentioned he'd possibly (which I read as probably) switch positions, so he's probably not a factor. But that still leaves a five man race (Rhoda, Croft, McLaurin, Morgan and Green) after moving Williams.

I personally think it will be Green, Croft or Morgan. Though if Fleck wants to RS Morgan and start him next year then I could see Rhoda starting. Otherwise I don't see Rhoda in the mix. From what I've seen I don't think he's that much better than Croft (no data on the other two) and with the age difference why work with a guy who's gone next year when you can work with a guy who can continue (unless you don't want to come into next year with an incumbent starter)?
 


It should be noted that a large part of the seeming indifference towards the right of the players in this case and the accused in general in EOAA cases stem from financial incentives.

Thus far most of the lawsuits brought against schools seem to be to simply restore their student status and revoke expulsions. This is much, much cheaper for the schools than paying out large sums to alleged victims that might bring civil cases, meritorious or not.

It is expensive to fund civil cases vs the schools. Most students don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of. Until some of the falsely accused start winning some big dollar judgments the Kalers of the world will ignore what's right and do the politically easy and expedient thing, which is feeding he lynch mob.
 

Wow, this became a QB starter thread?
 

Pompous Elitist said:
It should be noted that a large part of the seeming indifference towards the right of the players in this case and the accused in general in EOAA cases stem from financial incentives.

Thus far most of the lawsuits brought against schools seem to be to simply restore their student status and revoke expulsions. This is much, much cheaper for the schools than paying out large sums to alleged victims that might bring civil cases, meritorious or not.

It is expensive to fund civil cases vs the schools. Most students don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of. Until some of the falsely accused start winning some big dollar judgments the Kalers of the world will ignore what's right and do the politically easy and expedient thing, which is feeding he lynch mob.
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It's not only that (because lawyers would certainly take the case), but these are really difficult cases to win damages. Essentially, you'd have to prove malice.
 

Ski U Master said:
Perhaps not, but the way the names were released in no way spelled out a connection to the proceedings around the sexual assault investigation. Of course, everyone made the connection but it wasn't explicitly stated that way from the U and I think they kept separation that way from violating any privacy guidelines/policies.
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Technically, maybe. However, if privacy is going to be such a strong stance on their part, they should have taken it all around. They handled it all so poorly.


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GopherWeatherGuy said:
The Gophers had a game. Michigan St has not.
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Stupid - that doesn't matter. With student and data privacy, they really should not have released the names. However, despite what little you know about how data privacy laws work, I know that you always seem to have the answer anyway. Also, it fit your narrative with wanting a coaching change at the time, so the best thing to do was release the names.


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Ozzy&Ray said:
Stupid - that doesn't matter. With student and data privacy, they really should not have released the names. However, despite what little you know about how data privacy laws work, I know that you always seem to have the answer anyway. Also, it fit your narrative with wanting a coaching change at the time, so the best thing to do was release the names.
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Couldn't be farther from the truth.

So you think if Michigan St had a game, we'd still have no idea who got in trouble? When Hardin, Winfield etc didn't show up for the bowl game, we'd still be just guessing who the suspended ones would be? Please.
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
Stupid - that doesn't matter. With student and data privacy, they really should not have released the names. However, despite what little you know about how data privacy laws work, I know that you always seem to have the answer anyway. Also, it fit your narrative with wanting a coaching change at the time, so the best thing to do was release the names.


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I may be wrong, but I don't believe there is a privacy policy surrounding athletic suspensions. It is far more common for schools to say "x player was suspended for the next game for y reason" than to not include a name. You're confusing two different policies, a student policy and an athletics policy.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Couldn't be farther from the truth.

So you think if Michigan St had a game, we'd still have no idea who got in trouble? When Hardin, Winfield etc didn't show up for the bowl game, we'd still be just guessing who the suspended ones would be? Please.
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You are correct, we would have been able to put the pieces together at the bowl game. But, the names were released almost a month before that game. Then their names were smeared all over the place as 10 who committed sexual assault.
 


Ski U Master said:
I may be wrong, but I don't believe there is a privacy policy surrounding athletic suspensions. It is far more common for schools to say "x player was suspended for the next game for y reason" than to not include a name. You're confusing two different policies, a student policy and an athletics policy.
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No, the reason for the suspension is what drives data privacy. Working in the field I am aware of this.


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