Chip Scoggins: Committee got Gophers, Middle Tennessee seeds backward

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per Chip:

Vegas was right. That wasn’t an upset.

What Middle Tennessee did to the Gophers in the first round of the NCAA tournament Thursday didn’t qualify as one of those of-my-gosh March Madness moments. Far from it.

The Blue Raiders won 81-72 because they are a better team. They’re faster and stronger, deeper and tougher.

The 12th seed played like a 5 seed, and vice versa.

MTSU looked like a veteran team on both ends of the floor. The Gophers looked like a young team that has zero depth and was hanging by a thread.

That lack-of-respect chatter before the game was just wasted breath. If those two teams played 10 times, MTSU would hold the edge.

That doesn’t discredit the Gophers’ turnaround season. It just means they’re still an incomplete team.

http://www.startribune.com/ncaa-selection-committee-got-these-two-seeds-backward/416396933/#1

Go Gophers!!
 

Is Chip auditioning for First Take with this flaming hot take? I won't dignify what I just read with a click to the Strib website, but these bullet points would make Stephen A or Skip blush

"Vegas was right" Vegas made us a favorite, the public made us an underdog and Vegas lost big on this game (90% of tickets on MTSU). Further KenPom, 538 and others had the Gophers as a favorite in this game

"The Blue Raiders won because they are a better team" Yeah that's it Chip, had nothing to do with the Gophers playing their worst game of the season. Nothing to do with the B1G defensive player of the year missing much of the game do to foul trouble or the All B1G first team guard playing his worst game of the season AND getting injured.

"If these two teams played 10 times, MTSU would hold the edge" Sure buddy, the Gophers played their worst game of the season and had a flicker of hope with 6 minutes left. Again, Vegas and the predictive models would disagree with this assessment.

If you were watching the Gophers all season, this did qualify as one of those "oh my gosh March Madness moments" Chip. If you were paying attention, this team was blown out once all season and that was at Michigan State. In 6 of their 9 losses they were leading at halftime. In 6 of their 9 losses the Gophers had a legit chance to win the game with a minute left. This wasn't the Gopher team we have been watching all year and that doesn't discredit Middle Tennessee, but it does discredit your column.
 

Is Chip auditioning for First Take with this flaming hot take? I won't dignify what I just read with a click to the Strib website, but these bullet points would make Stephen A or Skip blush

"Vegas was right" Vegas made us a favorite, the public made us an underdog and Vegas lost big on this game (90% of tickets on MTSU). Further KenPom, 538 and others had the Gophers as a favorite in this game

"The Blue Raiders won because they are a better team" Yeah that's it Chip, had nothing to do with the Gophers playing their worst game of the season. Nothing to do with the B1G defensive player of the year missing much of the game do to foul trouble or the All B1G first team guard playing his worst game of the season AND getting injured.

"If these two teams played 10 times, MTSU would hold the edge" Sure buddy, the Gophers played their worst game of the season and had a flicker of hope with 6 minutes left. Again, Vegas and the predictive models would disagree with this assessment.

If you were watching the Gophers all season, this did qualify as one of those "oh my gosh March Madness moments" Chip. If you were paying attention, this team was blown out once all season and that was at Michigan State. In 6 of their 9 losses they were leading at halftime. In 6 of their 9 losses the Gophers had a legit chance to win the game with a minute left. This wasn't the Gopher team we have been watching all year and that doesn't discredit Middle Tennessee, but it does discredit your column.

I think you make some great points and Chip is a clown but don't you think a huge part of the reason we had our worst game was our opponent? The Gophers were not use to zone and that took guys out of their game. Lynch was often in foul trouble that comes with the territory when evaluating him. I'm hoping this off season he figures it out and today should be a huge motivator. First 4mn he was dominant then started fouling. If Lynch catches that pass dunks it we are right in it, instead he fumbles the pass commits dumb foul and we are down 15-game over.

Personally I think MTSU was way under seeded and the gophers should've been a 6. I'd much rather play a bubble team at 11 than a great mid major at 12. Gophers were the only 12 that lost but 2 others were close.
 

I think you make some great points and Chip is a clown but don't you think a huge part of the reason we had our worst game was our opponent? The Gophers were not use to zone and that took guys out of their game. Lynch was often in foul trouble that comes with the territory when evaluating him. I'm hoping this off season he figures it out and today should be a huge motivator. First 4mn he was dominant then started fouling. If Lynch catches that pass dunks it we are right in it, instead he fumbles the pass commits dumb foul and we are down 15-game over.

Personally I think MTSU was way under seeded and the gophers should've been a 6. I'd much rather play a bubble team at 11 than a great mid major at 12. Gophers were the only 12 that lost but 2 others were close.

I don't feel like the zone bothered us all that much. We got GREAT looks at 3 the entire first half and went 3-13 on them. We're not a good shooting team, but we're good enough to knock down a higher percentage of uncontested 3's than we did today (finished 6-21). We were 18/31 on non 3's (58%) so it's not like we weren't getting good looks inside the arc either. We have been a low turnover team all year (11.7 per game, 56th in division 1) and had just 8 today against Middle Tennessee State. Two of those eight turnovers were Nate Mason just chucking the ball out of bounds and another was the Lynch fumbled dunk that you mentioned.

I do think MTSU's offense bothered us, and how much of that was a lack of Lynch can be argued. When we needed stops late in the game we gave up an open 3 to Upshaw and then he hit a really killer tough fadeaway from midrange. The middle 20 minutes of the game was the worst defense the Gophers have played all season. I said in another thread that I would bet MTSU scored on about 90% of their possessions during this stretch...a stretch that included Lynch being on the floor for the start of the second half. We handled ball screens really poorly and guys were just rolling in for dunks. I don't think we had any intention of playing a game in the 80's especially with just two guards but that's what it would have taken to win given our defensive performance. We gave up over 80 in regulation just three times this year (our last two games and the home meltdown against Maryland) and lost all three.

I don't think it mattered if we played MTSU today or a high major bubble team like K State, the performance out there from Nate Mason (was he really hurt during the game or was that an existing injury?) and Reggie Lynch's foul trouble were going to be too much to overcome. We trust 6 guys to play right now and one had his worst game of the season and another spent much of the game on the bench. I think people would be saying K State was underseeded if the Gophers that played today showed up to play them.
 

#2 was beyond bad. He actually should have been benched.
 


I'd see it as the committee trying to set up an obvious upset.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

#coacheslivesmatter
 

I don't feel like the zone bothered us all that much. We got GREAT looks at 3 the entire first half and went 3-13 on them. We're not a good shooting team, but we're good enough to knock down a higher percentage of uncontested 3's than we did today (finished 6-21). We were 18/31 on non 3's (58%) so it's not like we weren't getting good looks inside the arc either. We have been a low turnover team all year (11.7 per game, 56th in division 1) and had just 8 today against Middle Tennessee State. Two of those eight turnovers were Nate Mason just chucking the ball out of bounds and another was the Lynch fumbled dunk that you mentioned.

I do think MTSU's offense bothered us, and how much of that was a lack of Lynch can be argued. When we needed stops late in the game we gave up an open 3 to Upshaw and then he hit a really killer tough fadeaway from midrange. The middle 20 minutes of the game was the worst defense the Gophers have played all season. I said in another thread that I would bet MTSU scored on about 90% of their possessions during this stretch...a stretch that included Lynch being on the floor for the start of the second half. We handled ball screens really poorly and guys were just rolling in for dunks. I don't think we had any intention of playing a game in the 80's especially with just two guards but that's what it would have taken to win given our defensive performance. We gave up over 80 in regulation just three times this year (our last two games and the home meltdown against Maryland) and lost all three.

I don't think it mattered if we played MTSU today or a high major bubble team like K State, the performance out there from Nate Mason (was he really hurt during the game or was that an existing injury?) and Reggie Lynch's foul trouble were going to be too much to overcome. We trust 6 guys to play right now and one had his worst game of the season and another spent much of the game on the bench. I think people would be saying K State was underseeded if the Gophers that played today showed up to play them.
Yep. We clanked a ton of open looks today in that first half. That combined with missing Springs and then Lynch for large stretches really hurt our defense which is what killed us. MTSU played well but didn't really out anything us other than execution. I didn't see more talent, size or athleticism, I saw a more disciplined, experienced team that capitalized while we didn't. Like you said if we just hit some of those open 3's early on it's an entirely different game. And that's what the tournament is. Sometimes one team hits shots and the other doesnt and combined with our poor defensive execution for large stretches, that was the game. Thing is we also forget at times that our team is very young. At one point we were playing with 2 frosh, 2 sophs and Mason on the floor. This is their first tourney game and their first year playing meaningful games. These guys will all improve
 

The Committee seeded based on schedule. That was pretty clear. And MTSU was only 9-2 against the Top 150. To put that in perspective, Minnesota was 19-9. MTSU is a good team, but they were seeded in a manner consistent with how other teams were seeded.

It's really tough to seed these really good teams from small conferences.
 

Chip's half right: according to Kenpom, Sagarin, et. al, we're closer to the other twelve seeds than we are to the other five seeds
 




I don't feel like the zone bothered us all that much. We got GREAT looks at 3 the entire first half and went 3-13 on them. We're not a good shooting team, but we're good enough to knock down a higher percentage of uncontested 3's than we did today (finished 6-21). We were 18/31 on non 3's (58%) so it's not like we weren't getting good looks inside the arc either. We have been a low turnover team all year (11.7 per game, 56th in division 1) and had just 8 today against Middle Tennessee State. Two of those eight turnovers were Nate Mason just chucking the ball out of bounds and another was the Lynch fumbled dunk that you mentioned.

I do think MTSU's offense bothered us, and how much of that was a lack of Lynch can be argued. When we needed stops late in the game we gave up an open 3 to Upshaw and then he hit a really killer tough fadeaway from midrange. The middle 20 minutes of the game was the worst defense the Gophers have played all season. I said in another thread that I would bet MTSU scored on about 90% of their possessions during this stretch...a stretch that included Lynch being on the floor for the start of the second half. We handled ball screens really poorly and guys were just rolling in for dunks. I don't think we had any intention of playing a game in the 80's especially with just two guards but that's what it would have taken to win given our defensive performance. We gave up over 80 in regulation just three times this year (our last two games and the home meltdown against Maryland) and lost all three.

I don't think it mattered if we played MTSU today or a high major bubble team like K State, the performance out there from Nate Mason (was he really hurt during the game or was that an existing injury?) and Reggie Lynch's foul trouble were going to be too much to overcome. We trust 6 guys to play right now and one had his worst game of the season and another spent much of the game on the bench. I think people would be saying K State was underseeded if the Gophers that played today showed up to play them.

Those 2 I couldn't agree more.

We hit 6-13 in the first half instead of 3-13, we probably pull this out. You shoot what the zone gives you and if you have a perimeter shooting team, you bury MTSU quickly (i.e. Vadgers).

Mason, hurt or not, the fact he was nowhere near to his first team B1G honors, killed us. Too bad, he had such a solid season.

We have lots to look forward too. I'm hoping we can grab a shooter somewhere.
 

Seems like we were slightly overseeded - I was a bit surprised at a 5. Expected a 6. MTSU could likely argue they should have been higher by a bit. Again, not much. Ultimately, one team played well, one did not. It happens.
 

Gophers probably should have been a 6, MTSU an 8 or 9. In the end, that's irrelevant. I'm in Milwaukee. The better, much deeper team won yesterday. That's what it boils down to. No shame in losing to MTSU.

A lot to look forward to next year, but Gophers need to add 2, maybe 3 rotation players to be B1G title contender. So little depth this year, and that was case before losing Akeem.
 



Gophers probably should have been a 6, MTSU an 8 or 9. In the end, that's irrelevant. I'm in Milwaukee. The better, much deeper team won yesterday. That's what it boils down to. No shame in losing to MTSU.

A lot to look forward to next year, but Gophers need to add 2, maybe 3 rotation players to be B1G title contender. So little depth this year, and that was case before losing Akeem.

Still think if we have Springs this is a W. Hurt depth, shooting and defense all at the same time
 

Scoggins article is pretty much click bait garbage, but the selection committee did a horrible job of seeding teams this year. The worst I've ever seen. As much as it delighted me seeing wisconsin seeded 8, they were more of a 5 or 6. Teams like Dayton, VT, and Minnesota were seeded too high.

People here scoff at ESPN's BPI index, but it seems to be an accurate indicator of success so far.
 

I disagree with a lot of you guys here when it comes to where MTSU was seeded and I did a lot of resume comparisons, I DO agree with all of you who said the Gopher's should have been a 6 seed.

First of all, even if the only thing you looked at was the rpi, a #5 seed was sort of a generous seed. Maybe the committee gave UMn a lot of benefit of the doubt because of their impressive # of Top 50 and Top 100 wins, especially with their 5 Top 50 wins away from home, including 3 Top 50 ROAD games, 1 of those being a Top 25 wins. UMn also had an 8-7 record vs Teams in the field. And if those were the only factors you looked at, you could almost have justified giving the Gophers a #4 seed.

I think a lot of Gopher fans would be surprised to learn just how few teams out there had more Top 50 wins, and even fewer had more Top 50 wins away from home and even fewer had more Top 50 ROAD wins. I haven't checked since I made resume check of the Top 35 rpi teams in the country, which was when the Gophers had just 2 games left in conference play, but at that time only 7 teams in the entire country had more Top 50 wins, and only 6 had more Top 50 wins away from home and only ONE, had more Top 50 ROAD wins, and that was #1 ranked Villanova. Those resume features alone could have earned Minnesota a 4 seed if not a 3.

But those are all the positives, their were negatives such as the Gopher's 5 game losing streak, and PSU, our worst loss, dropping all the way out of the Top 100 in the last week of the season, giving us one bad loss, and the committee also considering other metric ratings like Ken-Pom, Sagarin, etc., and those metrics were not as nice to the Gophers as the rpi and so the 5 seed we got was probably an averaging out of our positives and our negatives.

Where I think the Committee got our seeding wrong is the loss of Springs. We were not a deep team with Springs, so losing him was a significant blow. This loss alone should have dropped us a full seed line, and I fully expected the SC to drop the Gophers down to a #6 and I was even prepared mentally to be ok with a #7 seed.


Now where I disagree most with some of you is your assessment of MTSU being so badly seeded. They only had 2 Top 50 wins and 4 Top 100 wins, and they had 3 Bad losses, including a loss to #222 UTEP, and TWO HOME BAD LOSSES. They played #338 FIU close in both their meetings, beating them both at home and away by only 3 points both games and they played a lot of teams rated in the 200s and 300s, and the SC has made it very VERY clear that they do not reward teams with weak SOS's and a lack of quality wins. There 2 Top 50 wins were also not clearly recognizable name schools, UNC-W and Vanderbilt. MTSU's best feature was their mid-30s RPI, but like UMn, other metric ratings were not as nice to MTSU.
Now just because I don't think MTSU should have been an 8/9 seed, doesn't mean that I agree with their getting a #12 seed. The other 8/9 seeds out there had better resumes than MTSU, but with 30 wins on the season and 2 Top 50 wins, they could have easily been given an #11 seed and maybe even a #10 seed.

So my final assessment is that their chances of getting a #10 seed, were about the same as our chances of getting dropped down to a #7 seed, and where I think they should have been placed was as an #11 seed, and I think the Gophers should have been placed as a #6 seed. And with the multiple connections between RP and MTSU and their coach, and the Gophers beating MTSU in the semi's of the NIT a few years back, I think it was simply destiny that Minnesota and MTSU met up in the Big Dance.



As for MTSU being the clearly better team, according to this goofball Chip? My first and only really significant question would be this, did MTSU shoot 53.8% from 3 point land during the season? And did UMn shoot only 28.5% from 3 point land during the season???

And it wasn't MTSU's defense that kept UMn from hitting more of their outside shots, they simply got good looks, and they simply missed. There was a point in the game where MTSU had made 6 of their first 10 three point shots, and UMn at that very same moment, had only made 3 of their first 15 three point shots. Add just one made 3 pointer to UMn and one fewer 3 pointers to MTSU and that's a 6 point swing and all of a sudden, late in the game, when Minnesota was starting to get MTSU into its own foul trouble, they wouldn't have felt compelled to shoot so many 3s, and could have kept driving the ball inside and forcing MTSU to either foul more or let the Gophers keep doing it. But MTSU DID have one of its best shooting efforts of their season and UMn had one of its worst and so the Gophers did opt for shooting 3s out of desperation to close the gap and without Springs in the lineup, no one got hot enough to close that gap.

I'd mention the foul trouble, except that an MTSU apologist could legitimately argue that Lynch struggling with foul trouble was a common thing, so it wouldn't be fair to include that as evidence of anything and that's ok. I don't think Lynch's foul trouble was the factor that lost the Gophers this game, because the Gophers won lots of games where Lynch had foul trouble. Was it A factor? Yes, but the factors that were NOT typical are what truly demonstrate MTSU was not simply the better team.

And that other NON-typical factor that really gave MTSU the edge in this contest, was Mason's having arguably the worst game of his entire season and it was clear that he was injured, the only mystery, to me, is whether it was something that bothered him the whole game and just got worse as the game wore on, or did something happen during the game to make it worse, or was he just playing poorly early in the game which was then made worse by getting injured? No matter what, his being healthy, even if it was only for the last portion of the game, was something the Gophers needed to go from coming up short in their comeback effort.

Not having Springs typically shouldn't have been enough to make MTSU a simply better team, but it was a factor that did make the teams closer. With Springs, I'd say UMn would win 5-6 games of a 7 game series, without Springs, I'd say closer to 4-5 games as long as they were tourney type games, meaning on a neutral court and with the same amount of game breaks.

OK, end of my novel, just wanted to get all of that off my chest, and can now hopefully move on and start focusing more on looking forward to next year than back on this past season.
 

OK, end of my novel, just wanted to get all of that off my chest, and can now hopefully move on and start focusing more on looking forward to next year than back on this past season.

I hope you don't mind if I show this to my wife who thinks I spend too much time dwelling on the Gophers. She'll once again think, "Ah, he has his faults but it could be worse."
 

I hope you don't mind if I show this to my wife who thinks I spend too much time dwelling on the Gophers. She'll once again think, "Ah, he has his faults but it could be worse."

Ha! I know where you're coming from (but I appreciate the depth of your post, Killmenow!).
 




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