Big Ten is Suffering this year

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MD and Minn - Out against lower seeds.
Wisconsin and now Michigan knock out two higher seeds.


Is MSU beats Kansas, Big Ten is guaranteed a Elite Eight spot.

Interestingly in that bracket, Kansas, Iowa St, Purdue, and Michigan St were in the same half of the bracket.

Why did the selection committee want these conferences to meet this early against each other. Usually they at least get it a round further before they play each other.
 

macgopher said:
Big Ten is really suffering this year, Mich just suffered thru a victory over Louisville.
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The vaunted ACC is 0-4 in the 2nd round. Only power 6 conference with 0 Sweet 16 teams so far. B1G only one with the 3.
 

howeda7 said:
The vaunted ACC is 0-4 in the 2nd round. Only power 6 conference with 0 Sweet 16 teams so far. B1G only one with the 3.
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Big Ten has ousted 4 ACC teams so far. Makes the November challenge a bit irrelevant.
 

37score said:
MD and Minn - Out against lower seeds.
Wisconsin and now Michigan knock out two higher seeds.


Is MSU beats Kansas, Big Ten is guaranteed a Elite Eight spot.

Interestingly in that bracket, Kansas, Iowa St, Purdue, and Michigan St were in the same half of the bracket.

Why did the selection committee want these conferences to meet this early against each other. Usually they at least get it a round further before they play each other.
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Due to the number of teams in certain seeds it would be tough to avoid the possibility.

They typically only guarantee avoiding a conference meeting in the first two rounds.
 

ACC
Virginia lost to high seed (Florida (SEC), but it was a wipeout.
Notre Dame lost to #3 WV (Big 12) (to higher seed)

11 Xavier upset FSU (this looks bad for ACC)
Louisville lost to #7.

Two bad upsets for ACC.

They still have Duke and NC though....

Duke vs SEC South Carolina
North Carolina vs SEC Arkansas
 


KillmeNow said:
Most in here, if not all, are NOT saying Minnesota is/was better than Minnesota, although I suspect some believe they WERE before Springs went down. I'm one of those people.

But what we ARE saying, is that Minnesota's NCAA tourney Resume was BETTER than Wisconsin's, and why they got the #5 and Wisconsin only got an #8.

And there can not be any denying that Minnesota's NCAA tourney resume was better than Wisconsin's, and the NCAA Selection Committee apparently agreed, and it wasn't even close, a #5 to an #8.
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And a lot of college basketball fans would disagree with you. Wisconsin finished 2nd in the Big Ten to the Gophers 4th. Wisconsin swept the Gophers, home and away. Wisconsin finished runner up in the Big Ten Tournament. Their out of conference turned out less than anticipated, but it's not like they scheduled terrible teams. Beat Tennessee, Georgetown, Syracuse, Oklahoma, and Marquette. Losses to North Carolina and Creighton. It's pretty clear Wisconsin was underseeded and Minnesota was overseeded.

As mentioned, the Big Ten was never as down as people wanted to say. They don't have a true front runner for the National Championship, but the top 8ish teams in the conference have a chance to beat anyone on any day, and the tourney has shown that so far.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Wisconsin was criminally under-seeded. The people who should be most upset about this are Villanova. With the weakness they showed in the first half against Mount St. Mary's, they shape up as upset bait Saturday.
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They ended the season without Koenig or not at full go, without him they were definately an 8 or 9 seed, with Koenig at full strength they are much better than that.

To bad most of the B1G teams are in the same region.
 

This post season should help the Gophers understand how close we are to big success. These are teams we beat.....
 

bga1 said:
This post season should help the Gophers understand how close we are to big success. These are teams we beat.....
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I was thinking the same thing. If our guys can mature a bit and maybe find a consistent 3-point shooter among them, we can make a deep run in 2018.
 



Looks like the pundits got the big ten wrong again. When 1-13 have six or more conference wins there are no days off and that type of blood bath is the perfect prep for the dance
 

MNBadgerGuy said:
And a lot of college basketball fans would disagree with you. Wisconsin finished 2nd in the Big Ten to the Gophers 4th. Wisconsin swept the Gophers, home and away. Wisconsin finished runner up in the Big Ten Tournament. Their out of conference turned out less than anticipated, but it's not like they scheduled terrible teams. Beat Tennessee, Georgetown, Syracuse, Oklahoma, and Marquette. Losses to North Carolina and Creighton. It's pretty clear Wisconsin was underseeded and Minnesota was overseeded.

As mentioned, the Big Ten was never as down as people wanted to say. They don't have a true front runner for the National Championship, but the top 8ish teams in the conference have a chance to beat anyone on any day, and the tourney has shown that so far.
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Head to head and conference tournament make up 3 games out of a ~33 game season, so a little less than 10% of the season. Minnesota and Wisconsin both ended up losing to Michigan anyway, and Minnesota had just lost a starter and kept the score closer. Conference standing is tough to go by because of unbalanced schedules. I'm sure Pitino would have loved a second game against Rutgers this year. I guess you can't really blame Wisconsin for scheduling a bunch of non-conference games against high major competition, and then most of them end up sucking, but you also can't really credit them with a quality win for scheduling a team that was supposed to be good and wasn't. Otherwise it just becomes a different sort of scheduling game where you try to play games against teams you think will start the season ranked and then tank afterward. Wisconsin also played 5 300+ RPI teams while Minnesota played 0, which is probably less of an accident than Syracuse and Oklahoma crapping the bed. Minnesota also had 8 top 50 wins while Wisconsin had 5.

I think you can argue that Wisconsin deserved better than an 8 seed and Minnesota didn't deserve a 5, maybe the committee didn't take our late injury into account. But I don't think there's a great argument for Wisconsin deserving a better seed than Minnesota, unless you start looking at straight up number of wins and disregard which particular teams they beat.
 

Three B1G teams in the sweet sixteen. More than the ACC will have. Yep, the B1G is suffering alright... [emoji57]
 

MNBadgerGuy said:
And a lot of college basketball fans would disagree with you. Wisconsin finished 2nd in the Big Ten to the Gophers 4th. Wisconsin swept the Gophers, home and away. Wisconsin finished runner up in the Big Ten Tournament. Their out of conference turned out less than anticipated, but it's not like they scheduled terrible teams. Beat Tennessee, Georgetown, Syracuse, Oklahoma, and Marquette. Losses to North Carolina and Creighton. It's pretty clear Wisconsin was underseeded and Minnesota was overseeded.

As mentioned, the Big Ten was never as down as people wanted to say. They don't have a true front runner for the National Championship, but the top 8ish teams in the conference have a chance to beat anyone on any day, and the tourney has shown that so far.
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It's pretty clear that you lack a fundamental understanding of the selection process. I actually agree that Wisconsin was a better team than Minnesota this year. As mentioned by other posters, the Gophere RESUME was better based on the tools that the NCAA committee tells us that they will be using. The NCAA still uses archaic tools such as the RPI to artificially create potential "upsets". They were appropriately seeded the way the NCAA likes it. Now let's hope the Big Ten can keep proving the rest of the country wrong!
 





MNBadgerGuy said:
And a lot of college basketball fans would disagree with you. Wisconsin finished 2nd in the Big Ten to the Gophers 4th. Wisconsin swept the Gophers, home and away. Wisconsin finished runner up in the Big Ten Tournament. Their out of conference turned out less than anticipated, but it's not like they scheduled terrible teams. Beat Tennessee, Georgetown, Syracuse, Oklahoma, and Marquette. Losses to North Carolina and Creighton. It's pretty clear Wisconsin was underseeded and Minnesota was overseeded.

As mentioned, the Big Ten was never as down as people wanted to say. They don't have a true front runner for the National Championship, but the top 8ish teams in the conference have a chance to beat anyone on any day, and the tourney has shown that so far.
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maybe college basketball fans with absolutely NO CLUE about how the Selection Committee thinks.

Cbb fans opinions don't determine squat, and the Selection Committee doesn't take fan opinion, or even AP or Coaches poll rankings into account, not at all. They've left AP Top 25 ranked teams OUT of the tourney before.


And Wisconsin finished ahead of Minny in the Conf standings? By 1 game? Is that because of playing an easier conference schedule maybe?

And they won one more game in the B1G conf tourney? Maybe the Gophers losing Springs THE DAY before the Michigan game had something to do with that? And since UW didn't beat Michigan either, doesn't mean much.


NCAA selection committee DID NOT give conference tourney's much influence on their seedings. They've made it VERY CLEAR that ooc SOS matters. And should we feel sorry for Wisconsin because the likes of Georgetown and Syracuse and Tennessee ended up not being nearly as good as the likes of Arkansas, Vanderbilt & UT-A? I don't remember Oklahoma being any good either.


So IT IS NOT CLEAR AT ALL that Wisconsin was underseeded and Minnesota was overseeded.


Why don't you look at how many MORE Top 50 wins Minny had than Wisconsin, it was close to DOUBLE!!! And Minny had THREE Top 50 Road wins. Did Wisconsin have any? I don't think so.
 

Cayman said:
Head to head and conference tournament make up 3 games out of a ~33 game season, so a little less than 10% of the season. Minnesota and Wisconsin both ended up losing to Michigan anyway, and Minnesota had just lost a starter and kept the score closer. Conference standing is tough to go by because of unbalanced schedules. I'm sure Pitino would have loved a second game against Rutgers this year. I guess you can't really blame Wisconsin for scheduling a bunch of non-conference games against high major competition, and then most of them end up sucking, but you also can't really credit them with a quality win for scheduling a team that was supposed to be good and wasn't. Otherwise it just becomes a different sort of scheduling game where you try to play games against teams you think will start the season ranked and then tank afterward. Wisconsin also played 5 300+ RPI teams while Minnesota played 0, which is probably less of an accident than Syracuse and Oklahoma crapping the bed. Minnesota also had 8 top 50 wins while Wisconsin had 5.

I think you can argue that Wisconsin deserved better than an 8 seed and Minnesota didn't deserve a 5, maybe the committee didn't take our late injury into account. But I don't think there's a great argument for Wisconsin deserving a better seed than Minnesota, unless you start looking at straight up number of wins and disregard which particular teams they beat.
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Wow, I was typing almost the same thing at the same time you were, kind of funny. So, yeah, I like the way you think man, lol.
 

KillmeNow said:
Wow, I was typing almost the same thing at the same time you were, kind of funny. So, yeah, I like the way you think man, lol.
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I've been repeating this argument ad nauseum on reddit the past few days. I've got it down to a science haha.

Neutral fans who know very little about either Wisconsin or Minnesota, or their respective tournament resumes, think that the results of the tournament games are the ultimate justification that the seeding was completely wrong. Part of it also likely has to do with the fact that we were unranked pretty much the entire season, despite a couple of lengthy winning streaks, so it might have been a surprise to the casual fan that an unranked team got a 5 seed. I remember even on here, people were questioning if Arkansas, and especially Vanderbilt, were going to be quality wins, and lo and behold, they're both top 50 and in the tournament. Texas-Arlington was also top 50, but none of those wins probably moved the needle much at the time. Florida State, a 3 seed, was also unranked when we lost to them, and sparked the first round of "same old Gophers" sentiment.
 

Cayman said:
I've been repeating this argument ad nauseum on reddit the past few days. I've got it down to a science haha.

Neutral fans who know very little about either Wisconsin or Minnesota, or their respective tournament resumes, think that the results of the tournament games are the ultimate justification that the seeding was completely wrong. Part of it also likely has to do with the fact that we were unranked pretty much the entire season, despite a couple of lengthy winning streaks, so it might have been a surprise to the casual fan that an unranked team got a 5 seed. I remember even on here, people were questioning if Arkansas, and especially Vanderbilt, were going to be quality wins, and lo and behold, they're both top 50 and in the tournament. Texas-Arlington was also top 50, but none of those wins probably moved the needle much at the time. Florida State, a 3 seed, was also unranked when we lost to them, and sparked the first round of "same old Gophers" sentiment.
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Yeah, I had the whole Gopher resume down and let the CBS cbb forum know all about it.

My favorite little factoid is when I did a comparison of certain aspects of our resume compared to the Top 35 teams in the rpi, and I did this before the weekend before the Wisconsin game, but only 7 teams in the entire country had more Top 50 wins than Minnesota, and UMn had twice as many as Wisconsin, and only 6 teams in the entire country had more Top 50 wins away from home than Minnesota, and finally

ONLY ONE TEAM, Villanova, had more Top 50 ROAD wins than Minnesota. And Wisconsin didn't have any, I believe.
 

KillmeNow said:
Yeah, I had the whole Gopher resume down and let the CBS cbb forum know all about it.

ONLY ONE TEAM, Villanova, had more Top 50 ROAD wins than Minnesota. And Wisconsin didn't have any, I believe.
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How about Wis @ Minn in OT?
 


Drake University Gopher said:
It's pretty clear that you lack a fundamental understanding of the selection process. I actually agree that Wisconsin was a better team than Minnesota this year. As mentioned by other posters, the Gophere RESUME was better based on the tools that the NCAA committee tells us that they will be using. The NCAA still uses archaic tools such as the RPI to artificially create potential "upsets". They were appropriately seeded the way the NCAA likes it. Now let's hope the Big Ten can keep proving the rest of the country wrong!
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You can ignore RPI and get the same argument.

Minnesota had 7 wins against teams seeded 9 or higher. Wisconsin had 5 but bring that to 6 if you include 10 seeds. For MN, 3 of those were on the road and 2 were on a neutral court. For WI, 1 (2 if you include Marquette) were on the road and 1 was on a neutral court.

They both had 7 losses to teams seeded 9 or higher. Minnesota had the win @Purdue which is better than anything Wisconsin had. Wisconsin had the two head to head victories. MN finished 9 of 11 and Wisconsin finished 5 of 10. Minnesota lost @Penn State and Wisconsin had to go to OT @Nebby and @Rutgers. Both lost @OSU.

They have comparable resumes. The committee will prefer MN because H2H doesn't matter. Other people will consider H2H and prefer becky.
 



I'd bet if Minnesota was a #7 and Wisconsin was a #8 they would barely be complaining. The whole country knew that Wisconsin was clearly a better team based on the two head-to-head results.
 

Wisconsin is playing better in the tourney as they have tourney experience and anyone who watches basketball knows this. They also start 4 seniors.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Yeah ACC is getting destroyed outside of North Carolina. Big Ten, Pac 12, SEC are all doing very well.
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And North Carolina is a 3:31 Arkansas scoreless streak away from the ACC having no sweet 16 teams.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
And North Carolina is a 3:31 Arkansas scoreless streak away from the ACC having no sweet 16 teams.
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And a horrible no call in their direction. Carolina guy bowls over an Arkansas guy to give them a three point lead with about 1:30 to go. Refs have had a really bad tournament so far.
 

bfast said:
I'd bet if Minnesota was a #7 and Wisconsin was a #8 they would barely be complaining. The whole country knew that Wisconsin was clearly a better team based on the two head-to-head results.
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Clearly? One game went overtime, and the Gophers played poorly in the other. They were pretty even teams. The whole key for WI comes down to one player - Koenig. He makes them a very good team when he is playing well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
Clearly? One game went overtime, and the Gophers played poorly in the other. They were pretty even teams. The whole key for WI comes down to one player - Koenig. He makes them a very good team when he is playing well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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To this point, it made me very happy to watch Trice struggle mightily against Villanova's pressure. The future looks iffy in Madison...
 

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