Post game notes: Pitino on Nate Mason's injury, not playing D, lacking depth

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Winasota Gopher said:
A 1-3-1 does just that, Mason's bread n butter is inbetween the elbows, there are 4 people within 2 steps of the elbow in a 1-3-1. He needed to assert himself when they were missing, unfortunatley for about 16 minutes, they didn't miss.

I didn't mind Pitino's offensive gameplan. They showed they were going to switch on the weave so we should have gone away from that in man to man situations. HIs zone break, like usual, was pretty successful in getting open shots, we just didn't hit them. I think we were 3-13 in the first half from deep, that's not going to break a zone, doesn't matter what you do.

Defensively, our guards couldn't help out on the back side and get back to the shooters. Not sure why, we just had guys that didn't make the extra effort or didn't talk through the high ball screens. No Springs might explain SOME of that, scared might explain some of that, unprepared might explain some of that, tired legs might explain some of that.

Then, Mid Tenn hit a ton of shots. They didn't miss the open three's we did, they made the contested twos we didnt. They played better in a game that Vegas had pegged as a toss up.

Bad game to have a bad game.




No he's not, why does everyone keep saying that? He litterally shoots at a 30% clip, even worse from 3.
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I like this take. Sometimes it simply comes down to putting the ball in the basket. We didn't do as well tonight, but t wasn't due to a lack of preparedness.

In regards to Gilbert. He has good form and a high release given his height. Stats aside, you might think that he'd hone in if given enough opportunity. You are absolutely correct based on stats to-date. He brings energy but not offense to the line up.


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bga1 said:
If we can get a JUCO big- that would be ideal in my view. This team is ready to go on a big roll next year if they can find a solid backup for Lynch to go with Fitzgerald, Washington and Harris.
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Don't think I agree - redshirt big would be better (preferably a transfer). Bakary should be a bit more improved next year and adequate as a backup with Curry as an alternative (Bakary has had some good outings this year; just need to give him a little longer leash). They'll need another guard or guard/small forward (don't know how ready Harris or Fitzgerald will be) and that's where they should get a grad transfer - just like they did this year.
 

There are lots of circumstances surrounding the lack of depth today with Dorsey and McNeill, Johnson, Springs and Fitzgerald. A lot of bad luck got the team where it was today with such a short rotation.

Springs' injury seemed to have been the straw that broke the camel's back. During our win streak, if one of our guards was off, there was someone to pick them up. We just didn't have that ability today.
 

cjbfbp said:
Don't think I agree - redshirt big would be better (preferably a transfer). Bakary should be a bit more improved next year and adequate as a backup with Curry as an alternative (Bakary has had some good outings this year; just need to give him a little longer leash). They'll need another guard or guard/small forward (don't know how ready Harris or Fitzgerald will be) and that's where they should get a grad transfer - just like they did this year.
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My thinking on a really good JUCO (no reason to take any JUCO that isn't capable of 20 minutes next year)is this: Konate, as much as thought he still had upside- just hurts us too often with offensive fouls and drops. If we had a good JUCO backup next year- he could play big minutes one more year while Oturo is a frosh. That would be perfect for the roster while they work on another long term big in the next class.
 

But you've got to think Curry will get better.

Ideal rotation for me looks like this:

PG: Mason 30, Washington 10
SG: Dupree 26, Washington 8, Coffey 6
Coffey 22, Fitz 6, Grad Transfer 12
PF: Murph 27, Curry 8, Grad Transfer 5
C: Lynch: 22, Curry 13, Konate 5
 


Just a couple thoughts: Hurt is evidently a better defender than Gilbert. Hurt gave up a blow by in an instant to a MTS substitute who had like 6 points on the season or something according to the announcer. Gilbert in his minutes this season was slower to react than Hurt. If these guys can't get quicker it's tough to get them on the floor if they can't defend.
My thought too was it's going to be hard for Fitzgerald to contribute after not playing for so long. But Pitino keeps mentioning him. Reggie commented today, how much Fitzgerald will help next year. So, I'm thinking in the summer/fall he must have looked pretty good. I don't think they just keep bring his name up if they don't think he can play.
It appears after the Michigan and the MTS games that Springs leadership was a HUGE factor on this team. Pitino taking over the plane's loudspeaker and praising Springs leadership to the entire plane has more impact to me as why he'd acknowledge it after watching two similar floundering games without him.
Pitino had the team prepared. The team didn't execute. He took McBrayer off the top vs the 1-3-1 and put Coffey there after McBrayer got himself triple teamed in the trap just like he did versus Iowa. Like somebody said coaching goes out the window when you are 3 of 13/14? from 3 in the first half. When your leader is AWOL and you have no substitutes there aren't many options. Yet, we were only down 6.
 

Biggsohnasty said:
But you've got to think Curry will get better.

Ideal rotation for me looks like this:

PG: Mason 30, Washington 10
SG: Dupree 26, Washington 8, Coffey 6
Coffey 22, Fitz 6, Grad Transfer 12
PF: Murph 27, Curry 8, Grad Transfer 5
C: Lynch: 22, Curry 13, Konate 5
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I don't know about minutes 9 months away without seeing guys play but I'd like to see Washington with more minutes at point guard and Nate as more of a shooting guard. We don't play traditional 1-3-1 offensive positions...you can call them both guards but Washington setting things up. Still getting Nate in spots to attack the basket...that's what he does best. McBrayer and Coffey along with possibly Harris sharing a spot. McBrayer also working in with Mason and Washington. 5 guys three spots.
Murphy, Lynch, Curry, Konate sharing minutes. That's 9 guys total. Leaves Fitzgerald and the grad transfer to carve out minutes. If that happened we'd be playing 11 guys. Another big would be more comfortable unless Fitzgerald is capable of playing like Curry and Murphy? Be great to have 9 or 10 guys who we could let fight for minutes.
 

EG#9 said:
Coaches "run off" guys all the time. Fran McCaffery has ran off more than than one guy a year for the past couple years. Hoiberg at Iowa State ran guys off regularly. Both coaches actually ran off JUCO's during/after their first year in the program! The practice of running guys off has been commonplace in major college basketball for as long as I can remember. Tubby and Monson both ran guys off (Kerry Woolridge anyone?). I can't believe suggesting Pitino could/should find a better use for the Gilbert/Diedhiou scholarships would be a controversial opinion. He's complaining about depth...he's got two guys on scholarship he won't play.
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Untalented players staying all 4 years with little playing time is far more common than running off a dude in his senior year whose only issue was not being that talented in the first place. I have no problem with a coach saying something like, "Look, unless you really transform your game in the offseason, in all likelihood, there just won't be minutes available for you, so I just want you to know in case playing time is your top priority and you want to explore options elsewhere. The ultimate decision is up to you though." Nudging is fine. Kicking a senior off scholarship is a bad look if that player isn't doing anything wrong other than not being very talented. It's not unusual to have a player or two barely ever see the floor on a given team, and it can actually be good for chemistry, whereas kicking players off might hurt it. We will have more depth and experience next year, and maybe one of them will transfer anyway.
 

underground629 said:
Untalented players staying all 4 years with little playing time is far more common than running off a dude in his senior year whose only issue was not being that talented in the first place. I have no problem with a coach saying something like, "Look, unless you really transform your game in the offseason, in all likelihood, there just won't be minutes available for you, so I just want you to know in case playing time is your top priority and you want to explore options elsewhere. The ultimate decision is up to you though." Nudging is fine. Kicking a senior off scholarship is a bad look if that player isn't doing anything wrong other than not being very talented. It's not unusual to have a player or two barely ever see the floor on a given team, and it can actually be good for chemistry, whereas kicking players off might hurt it. We will have more depth and experience next year, and maybe one of them will transfer anyway.
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Agreed 100%. Being "counseled out" is not the same thing as being run off. It needs to be the players decision whether he stays or goes as long as he is honoring his commitments as a student, player and citizen. Not every transfer is "run off." I would think it is probably a minority of transfers who actually want to stay and are forced out.
 



Winasota Gopher said:
A 1-3-1 does just that, Mason's bread n butter is inbetween the elbows, there are 4 people within 2 steps of the elbow in a 1-3-1. He needed to assert himself when they were missing, unfortunatley for about 16 minutes, they didn't miss.

I didn't mind Pitino's offensive gameplan. They showed they were going to switch on the weave so we should have gone away from that in man to man situations. HIs zone break, like usual, was pretty successful in getting open shots, we just didn't hit them. I think we were 3-13 in the first half from deep, that's not going to break a zone, doesn't matter what you do.
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I was very upset with how they attacked the zone. You can tear up a 1-3-1 if you attack it properly and that requires quick passing. two guards split the floor coming up and then you pass to the wing, (this we did) then you bust the two opposite players on up to the FT line from the baseline and the other cutting backdoor from the wing. One of these guys id going to be open and you have to hit him with the pass very quickly. Our wings were holding the ball too long which allowed them to reset into their 2-3 defense. if the wing would have passed immediately to Lynch or Murphy, they could have fed the other for a dunk or taken the open short jumper.

A 1-3-1 is an aggressive press type defense which gives quick passing teams an advantage. The Gophers just don't see enough of it to exploit it.

I guarantee a bunch of Ivy leaguers could tear that defense up with some quick passing.
 

underground629 said:
Untalented players staying all 4 years with little playing time is far more common than running off a dude in his senior year whose only issue was not being that talented in the first place. I have no problem with a coach saying something like, "Look, unless you really transform your game in the offseason, in all likelihood, there just won't be minutes available for you, so I just want you to know in case playing time is your top priority and you want to explore options elsewhere. The ultimate decision is up to you though." Nudging is fine. Kicking a senior off scholarship is a bad look if that player isn't doing anything wrong other than not being very talented. It's not unusual to have a player or two barely ever see the floor on a given team, and it can actually be good for chemistry, whereas kicking players off might hurt it. We will have more depth and experience next year, and maybe one of them will transfer anyway.
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+1 Inevitable, after a disappointing loss, the would-be general managers come up with this solution first. Ain't the pros, folks.
 

Next year we should have more depth even if we add nobody else. Washington will obviously play and Harris should at the very least be able to fill in as a 4th guard to give 8-10 mns a game. Either Hurt or Gilbert should improve to the point where they can at least give spot minutes at the 3 and a healthy Fitz should help (Pitino hyped Lynch all last year so I trust his track record here). That's 2-3 more bodies to use than we had this year.
 

I understand there is nothing you can do about injuries, they happen , they suck, and they hurt your depth. However, you cannot have 3 guys on scholarship that are going to give you a combined 2 minutes a night, sometimes less, and then complain about a lack of depth. Either play these guys more minutes and shut up about it or do something and get guys to take these scholarships that will contribute.
 



EG#9 said:
Coaches "run off" guys all the time. Fran McCaffery has ran off more than than one guy a year for the past couple years. Hoiberg at Iowa State ran guys off regularly. Both coaches actually ran off JUCO's during/after their first year in the program! The practice of running guys off has been commonplace in major college basketball for as long as I can remember. Tubby and Monson both ran guys off (Kerry Woolridge anyone?). I can't believe suggesting Pitino could/should find a better use for the Gilbert/Diedhiou scholarships would be a controversial opinion. He's complaining about depth...he's got two guys on scholarship he won't play.
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One he has two guards coming in for depth, he will have bodies there next year. Two if Fitz can play ten minutes a game at the three and the four, that will help keep Murph and Curry out of foul trouble and give Coffey a bit of a breather too. As for Tubby running dudes off the team, Peyton and Busch already had there degrees, they were run off like Buggs was 'run off" the team. Brandon Smith was essentially his Carlos Morris but worse in terms of behavior. Chip Armlin was unfortunate because they needed to make a spot for Mbakwe, but it's a poor practice to do this, that will absoloutly be used against you in recruiting
 

Knowing what I knew about MTSU, when I imagined what a loss to them would look like, this was it. Their experienced, tough and skilled forwards took it to us and freed up outside shots for their guards. MTSU needed Minnesota to be off their game defensively, and they got that. The Gopher defense has been up and down lately, and it was mostly down yesterday.
 

bemidjigopher said:
One he has two guards coming in for depth, he will have bodies there next year. Two if Fitz can play ten minutes a game at the three and the four, that will help keep Murph and Curry out of foul trouble and give Coffey a bit of a breather too. As for Tubby running dudes off the team, Peyton and Busch already had there degrees, they were run off like Buggs was 'run off" the team. Brandon Smith was essentially his Carlos Morris but worse in terms of behavior. Chip Armlin was unfortunate because they needed to make a spot for Mbakwe, but it's a poor practice to do this, that will absoloutly be used against you in recruiting
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I agree that this practice is not ideal and should be avoided at all costs but when it starts to hurt your team because bodies start piling up that can't contribute you need to address it.
 

Otis said:
I was very upset with how they attacked the zone. You can tear up a 1-3-1 if you attack it properly and that requires quick passing. two guards split the floor coming up and then you pass to the wing, (this we did) then you bust the two opposite players on up to the FT line from the baseline and the other cutting backdoor from the wing. One of these guys id going to be open and you have to hit him with the pass very quickly. Our wings were holding the ball too long which allowed them to reset into their 2-3 defense. if the wing would have passed immediately to Lynch or Murphy, they could have fed the other for a dunk or taken the open short jumper.

A 1-3-1 is an aggressive press type defense which gives quick passing teams an advantage. The Gophers just don't see enough of it to exploit it.

I guarantee a bunch of Ivy leaguers could tear that defense up with some quick passing.
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oh well when you put it that way, I'm pissed we didn't just pass it faster.
 

Does "running off" players, or as others have called it, "nudging them out" hurt future recruiting?

Well, I think the more accurate question should be, WILL IT HURT OUR FUTURE recruiting, if we do it this one time?

I guess what I am hinting at, is that Pitino's recruiting classes seem to be getting better every year, so if we "nudge" out one or two of his early misses, are the Coffey's and Washington's out there really going to be afraid its going to happen to them?


Quick question, has Pitino "nudged" anyone out of the program yet?

For every rule, there is usually an exception to the rule. Reputations are "usually" only made when those exceptions end up happening enough that they become more than an exception.


But as its been stated, "nudging" a guy out, is just that, a nudge, not a push. If everyone here wants to stay here, I am all for them being allowed to stay, and hopefully RP figures out how to work with them to the point that they can contribute even if it is only for a couple minutes. But like others have said, cbb is a business and its not curing cancer or something else that could be called a higher calling for the greater good, so I'm not going to feel guilty for HOPING that one of the guys who doesn't contribute, for their own benefit, chooses to leave the program for more playing time somewhere else.
 

KillmeNow said:
Does "running off" players, or as others have called it, "nudging them out" hurt future recruiting?

Well, I think the more accurate question should be, WILL IT HURT OUR FUTURE recruiting, if we do it this one time?

I guess what I am hinting at, is that Pitino's recruiting classes seem to be getting better every year, so if we "nudge" out one or two of his early misses, are the Coffey's and Washington's out there really going to be afraid its going to happen to them?


Quick question, has Pitino "nudged" anyone out of the program yet?

For every rule, there is usually an exception to the rule. Reputations are "usually" only made when those exceptions end up happening enough that they become more than an exception.


But as its been stated, "nudging" a guy out, is just that, a nudge, not a push. If everyone here wants to stay here, I am all for them being allowed to stay, and hopefully RP figures out how to work with them to the point that they can contribute even if it is only for a couple minutes. But like others have said, cbb is a business and its not curing cancer or something else that could be called a higher calling for the greater good, so I'm not going to feel guilty for HOPING that one of the guys who doesn't contribute, for their own benefit, chooses to leave the program for more playing time somewhere else.
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It's not necessary about the players as much as it opens the door for the competition to assassinate your character in general. Recruiting is cut throat there's no reason to give the enemy more bullets in the arsenal in war. If you're going to make a suggestion to a kid, you have to make it his decision and spin that way to the press right away, if word gets out any different well that's how Creaning became a verb
 

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