Flecks comment about playing FR

GopherBulldog said:

Yes. Those making excuses for 6 or less wins clearly have a man crush on PJF and have lost the ability to objectively judge the 2017 season.

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Is it at all possible that those expecting more than 9 wins clearly have a man crush on TC and have lost the ability to objectively judge the 2017 season?

60's Guy said:

The Gophers have like 5 legitimate center candidates, they won 9 games with a quarterback who was not a reliable passer, PJ has proven he can coach the wide receivers. Yes, it is all a mindset. Take the high school programs that win every year...why is that? It's coaching...it's the "culture" or the mindset of the person coaching the team. It's not because each year they are blessed with talent. They find a way. Henry Ford: think you can, think you can't either way you are right.
Why did Michigan State lose last year? I have no idea. Maybe it wasn't the head coach...maybe it was an assistant who left who was responsible for their success? Maybe some decisions were made that did not work? Maybe they had too many injuries? I really don't know...I'll agree it can happen but good coaches find a way to make it a wtf happened...to them it is a choice...they are accountable don't let it ever happen again...they fix it.
And PJ recruited 25 or whatever guys to fill the glaring needs. He'll add a couple more between now and the fall. He has 120 people to work with. PJ can find a way to compete in 2017. We did not graduate, lose or transfer out that many difference makers. DB's are thin...if we lose games because we keep getting torched we better be blitzing to force quicker decisions. There are remedies to short comings.

In basketball, Virginia can't score...they have no offensive talent. The man coaches defense. Does not tolerate excuses. They just held North Carolina to 43 points or whatever and won. Virginia is a top 25 team on coaching...on mindset. It's a choice.
Why they have no offensive talent is another discussion.
All I'm ranting against is the excuse that we should be comfortable winning 6 games next year because PJ is new. I just know from life experience that is total BS...it does not have to be that way. I don't know PJ but I trust in his abilities and the coaches he hired more than that. They don't need us making excuses for them. He is going to soft pedal it to the public to protect his team, his coaches and himself. But I am positive he does not believe they will 6 games in 2017. PJ believes it is his choice to do better than that.

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All of our "center candidates" have never practiced at the position on a D-1 football team. That's a pretty big hole to fill. Maybe one of the people we play there works out, maybe they don't. If Connor Mayes can't make the transition or Schmitz isn't ready as a true freshman, I'm not going to blame Fleck for our poor Center play. But maybe you will, since it's a "mindset," whatever that means. I'm pretty sure opposing DTs this season will also have a "mindset," and maybe they outplay our inexperienced Center.

Michigan St had a huge drop-off, you know why? Because they lost good seniors and replaced them with younger players that weren't as good. This happens to teams all the time. It may happen to Minnesota next year.

And I have no idea what a 20-9 Virginia basketball team has to do with Gopher football. Why has Virginia lost 9 games? It's a mindset, right? Just lock in and play great defense, they should be 29-0.

If Claeys was coming back, I would realistically expect 7 or 8 wins in the regular season, given the graduation losses and non-graduation losses.

With a new coaching staff, I can understand a period of adjustment, but most of the key personnel are the same.

So, if Fleck and Staff are an upgrade over Claeys - as some on this board have claimed - then I see no reason why Fleck and staff should not be able to get 7 or 8 wins out of the same talent.

I don't buy the argument that a team somehow has to get worse in order to get better.

short ornery norwegian said:

If Claeys was coming back, I would realistically expect 7 or 8 wins in the regular season, given the graduation losses and non-graduation losses.

With a new coaching staff, I can understand a period of adjustment, but most of the key personnel are the same.

So, if Fleck and Staff are an upgrade over Claeys - as some on this board have claimed - then I see no reason why Fleck and staff should not be able to get 7 or 8 wins out of the same talent.

I don't buy the argument that a team somehow has to get worse in order to get better.

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Yeah and the big issues are the question marks, both lines, QB... WR.

That doesn't change with the coaching staff.

short ornery norwegian said:

I don't buy the argument that a team somehow has to get worse in order to get better.

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It doesn't have to, but a slight regression also shouldn't signal it was a bad hire. There's already people here who are ready to call for Fleck's head if he stumbles. I think most are simply saying a slight regression means nothing in regards to the longterm impact of the hire.

John Galt said:

Is there a single poster who thinks we will win less than 6 games? I haven't heard it. What I'm arguing against is the notion that we won 9 last year, so we need to win 9+ in 2017 for it to be a success.

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Short answer is yes, quite a few. I think there was a poll as well that reflected the same. I recently went back and forth with a poster on a thread who thought Fleck winning 5-7 games a year over the next five would be fine.

Expecting 8 regular season wins is reasonable, and is also building on last year's record with the 2017 schedule being a bit tougher on paper than 2016. Not a rebuild or transformation.

short ornery norwegian said:

If Claeys was coming back, I would realistically expect 7 or 8 wins in the regular season, given the graduation losses and non-graduation losses.

With a new coaching staff, I can understand a period of adjustment, but most of the key personnel are the same.

So, if Fleck and Staff are an upgrade over Claeys - as some on this board have claimed - then I see no reason why Fleck and staff should not be able to get 7 or 8 wins out of the same talent.

I don't buy the argument that a team somehow has to get worse in order to get better.

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Perfectly stated, thanks.

No idea who the QB is.

OL issues.

DL issues.

WR issues....

But folks around here have a great idea what a "reasonable expectation" is.

W

T

F

short ornery norwegian said:

If Claeys was coming back, I would realistically expect 7 or 8 wins in the regular season, given the graduation losses and non-graduation losses.

With a new coaching staff, I can understand a period of adjustment, but most of the key personnel are the same.

So, if Fleck and Staff are an upgrade over Claeys - as some on this board have claimed - then I see no reason why Fleck and staff should not be able to get 7 or 8 wins out of the same talent.

I don't buy the argument that a team somehow has to get worse in order to get better.

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Why do you assume we have the same talent? Claeys/Kill won 6 games in 2015, how do you know they wouldn't drop back down to 6 wins this season?

Who is our QB? Other than Rhoda's one game vs Maryland, no one has ever taken a D-1 snap in a game.
Who is our Center? We don't have anyone that has ever practiced at the D-1 level at Center.
Who catches the ball? The best returning wideout had 18 catches for 349 yards.
Our defensive backfield was decimated by graduation and the suspensions. We lose our top 3 CBs from last year.

Bottom line, anyone expecting 8-9 wins next year wears the most maroon and gold colored glasses ever made.

John Galt said:

Why do you assume we have the same talent? Claeys/Kill won 6 games in 2015, how do you know they wouldn't drop back down to 6 wins this season?

Who is our QB? Other than Rhoda's one game vs Maryland, no one has ever taken a D-1 snap in a game.
Who is our Center? We don't have anyone that has ever practiced at the D-1 level at Center.
Who catches the ball? The best returning wideout had 18 catches for 349 yards.
Our defensive backfield was decimated by graduation and the suspensions. We lose our top 3 CBs from last year.

Bottom line, anyone expecting 8-9 wins next year wears the most maroon and gold colored glasses ever made.

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I dont think its a trash year but PJ should be able to get plenty of run between now and Fall to get a QB- C- DB's-and DL(which i dont even consider a problem area) lined up. The only think position for healthy players for Spring is OL

The nice thing is that we do have players to step up. its not like the 26 scholly kids and the 10 ish walk ons are the only talent to work with.
Yes we will be young in positions but everyone has to go through this once in a while. A coach coaches and players play. A Coach will put out the best players. In many peoples opinion the kids that will step up will be able to compete well and make us all proud.

coach em up coaches! cant wait for Spring ball to start

John Galt said:

Why do you assume we have the same talent? Claeys/Kill won 6 games in 2015, how do you know they wouldn't drop back down to 6 wins this season?

Who is our QB? Other than Rhoda's one game vs Maryland, no one has ever taken a D-1 snap in a game.
Who is our Center? We don't have anyone that has ever practiced at the D-1 level at Center.
Who catches the ball? The best returning wideout had 18 catches for 349 yards.
Our defensive backfield was decimated by graduation and the suspensions. We lose our top 3 CBs from last year.

Bottom line, anyone expecting 8-9 wins next year wears the most maroon and gold colored glasses ever made.

Click to expand...

Tamp, tamp, tamp...

Gophs should probably just shut'er down, based on your analysis. I mean, Gophs players don't ever get better, and Gophs never have anyone step up when given the opportunity...which is just the opposite for everyone the Gophs play.

Mindset

John Galt said:

Why do you assume we have the same talent? Claeys/Kill won 6 games in 2015, how do you know they wouldn't drop back down to 6 wins this season?

Who is our QB? Other than Rhoda's one game vs Maryland, no one has ever taken a D-1 snap in a game.
Who is our Center? We don't have anyone that has ever practiced at the D-1 level at Center.
Who catches the ball? The best returning wideout had 18 catches for 349 yards.
Our defensive backfield was decimated by graduation and the suspensions. We lose our top 3 CBs from last year.

Bottom line, anyone expecting 8-9 wins next year wears the most maroon and gold colored glasses ever made.

Click to expand...

John, I respect your recruiting comments and evaluations. You always have good information. But we evidently just have different outlooks or approaches to coaching a team. Different confidences in finding solutions to problems. Your concerns are valid, they just are solvable. (i do understand it's a message board and neither of us is coaching but) I believe you get what you emphasize. I believe you get what you convey with conviction to your team that you believe. I believe you approach things positively. I believe you find and see the opportunity versus the worries. I believe you find a way to be successful. Yes, you assess your shortcomings and you turn them into positives. You design your overall approach to minimize your limitations...through strategy, through scheme, through words.
I absolutely know for 100% if you express any of your concerns stated or show them in any way to players...there is a greater chance that's the result you'll achieve. Versus, if you tell your quarterbacks, other people say we don't have a quarterback for this team Nobody has any experience. I'm not concerned in the least...I know, I believe you guys will step up prove them all wrong...we are just fine at quarterback and today we are going to get even better. And you approach every day like that without doubt...quarterback will not be a problem. Somebody will step up and lead. I think the Gopher staff will approach it more like this versus dwelling on what we don't have.
I'm not disagreeing we don't have concerns but we also are not hapless without people to be coached to perform. We had a post that 20 guys of 22 starting were going to have 3 years or more on campus. Our center in the bowl game, effectively never played in a college game either. He performed pretty well.
My point on mindset John...if you expect to win 6 games, you likely will. If you expect to win them all, you'll at least win 8 or 9. That's what I mean by mindset and yes, being aware of the teams shortcomings, addressing them as a coaching staff finding solutions but ignoring all the sky is falling worries and turning them into positives talking to your team.
(My point on Virginia is that good coaching can win games versus teams with better talent...I think we have good coaches...I don't see them considering 6 wins a successful season)

PMWinSTP said:

Short answer is yes, quite a few. I think there was a poll as well that reflected the same. I recently went back and forth with a poster on a thread who thought Fleck winning 5-7 games a year over the next five would be fine.

Expecting 8 regular season wins is reasonable, and is also building on last year's record with the 2017 schedule being a bit tougher on paper than 2016. Not a rebuild or transformation.

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I call BS. No one will be happy if Fleck doesn't improve upon the record of the previous staff's tenure. The key difference for me (and most posters that understand the roster) is that 2017 isn't make or break.

PMWinSTP said:

Tamp, tamp, tamp...

Gophs should probably just shut'er down, based on your analysis. I mean, Gophs players don't ever get better, and Gophs never have anyone step up when given the opportunity...which is just the opposite for everyone the Gophs play.

Click to expand...

We should "shut er down" if we don't win 9 games? How long have you been a fan, 6 months?

I expect greatness, or eliteness, from Fleck. He should win the West in his first 5 years and have a better overall record than the previous staff.

60's Guy said:

John, I respect your recruiting comments and evaluations. You always have good information. But we evidently just have different outlooks or approaches to coaching a team. Different confidences in finding solutions to problems. Your concerns are valid, they just are solvable. (i do understand it's a message board and neither of us is coaching but) I believe you get what you emphasize. I believe you get what you convey with conviction to your team that you believe. I believe you approach things positively. I believe you find and see the opportunity versus the worries. I believe you find a way to be successful. Yes, you assess your shortcomings and you turn them into positives. You design your overall approach to minimize your limitations...through strategy, through scheme, through words.
I absolutely know for 100% if you express any of your concerns stated or show them in any way to players...there is a greater chance that's the result you'll achieve. Versus, if you tell your quarterbacks, other people say we don't have a quarterback for this team Nobody has any experience. I'm not concerned in the least...I know, I believe you guys will step up prove them all wrong...we are just fine at quarterback and today we are going to get even better. And you approach every day like that without doubt...quarterback will not be a problem. Somebody will step up and lead. I think the Gopher staff will approach it more like this versus dwelling on what we don't have.
I'm not disagreeing we don't have concerns but we also are not hapless without people to be coached to perform. We had a post that 20 guys of 22 starting were going to have 3 years or more on campus. Our center in the bowl game, effectively never played in a college game either. He performed pretty well.
My point on mindset John...if you expect to win 6 games, you likely will. If you expect to win them all, you'll at least win 8 or 9. That's what I mean by mindset and yes, being aware of the teams shortcomings, addressing them as a coaching staff finding solutions but ignoring all the sky is falling worries and turning them into positives talking to your team.
(My point on Virginia is that good coaching can win games versus teams with better talent...I think we have good coaches...I don't see them considering 6 wins a successful season)

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Let's stick to the bolded above. Fleck will absolutely have the right attitude and expect a great season in 2017. His attitude and approach will affect the culture and results.

Me? I'm not that important. Anything I say on say on GH has no bearing whatsoever on how well the season will go.

Our center in the bowl game was part of the team and practiced at center for 4 years. For the 20th time, whoever lines up at Center vs Buffalo has never taken a practice snap at the college level as of today. Yet 6 months from today they will be starting vs Buffalo. It's not the same as Matt Leidner getting his first start in the bowl game.

Virginia? They are consistently a top 20 team in basketball. They get a lot of talent, including four 4-star recruits last year:
http://www.scout.com/college/virginia/2016-basketball-commits

And North Carolina will still finish with a better record than Virginia and has better talent.

John Galt said:

I call BS. No one will be happy if Fleck doesn't improve upon the record of the previous staff's tenure. The key difference for me (and most posters that understand the roster) is that 2017 isn't make or break.

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Think it was Gopherhomer, so no, not BS. I have never, ever said 2017 is make or break for Fleck. In fact I just posted that if he elevates the program further to consistently having 8-10 reg. season wins, he's not going anywhere for a long time. If he doesn't succeed, he's not going anywhere for at least four years.

John Galt said:

We should "shut er down" if we don't win 9 games? How long have you been a fan, 6 months?

I expect greatness, or eliteness, from Fleck. He should win the West in his first 5 years and have a better overall record than the previous staff.

Click to expand...

Amateurish dig, but nice try. It's called sarcasm. Your post made it sound like Gophs have little hope to win a game, let alone 5, 6, 8 or 9. Heaven help them.

60's Guy said:

The Gophers have like 5 legitimate center candidates, they won 9 games with a quarterback who was not a reliable passer, PJ has proven he can coach the wide receivers. Yes, it is all a mindset. Take the high school programs that win every year...why is that? It's coaching...it's the "culture" or the mindset of the person coaching the team. It's not because each year they are blessed with talent. They find a way. Henry Ford: think you can, think you can't either way you are right.
Why did Michigan State lose last year? I have no idea. Maybe it wasn't the head coach...maybe it was an assistant who left who was responsible for their success? Maybe some decisions were made that did not work? Maybe they had too many injuries? I really don't know...I'll agree it can happen but good coaches find a way to make it a wtf happened...to them it is a choice...they are accountable don't let it ever happen again...they fix it.
And PJ recruited 25 or whatever guys to fill the glaring needs. He'll add a couple more between now and the fall. He has 120 people to work with. PJ can find a way to compete in 2017. We did not graduate, lose or transfer out that many difference makers. DB's are thin...if we lose games because we keep getting torched we better be blitzing to force quicker decisions. There are remedies to short comings.

In basketball, Virginia can't score...they have no offensive talent. The man coaches defense. Does not tolerate excuses. They just held North Carolina to 43 points or whatever and won. Virginia is a top 25 team on coaching...on mindset. It's a choice.
Why they have no offensive talent is another discussion.
All I'm ranting against is the excuse that we should be comfortable winning 6 games next year because PJ is new. I just know from life experience that is total BS...it does not have to be that way. I don't know PJ but I trust in his abilities and the coaches he hired more than that. They don't need us making excuses for them. He is going to soft pedal it to the public to protect his team, his coaches and himself. But I am positive he does not believe they will 6 games in 2017. PJ believes it is his choice to do better than that.

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I liked Claeys but the team never seemed to play beyond their abilities. I think PJ will elevate their play. I agree with everything you have said here. I see no reason why 8 wins (or more) is so hard to imagine.....but as a lifetime Minnesotan I should get the pessimism.

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I agree that our secondary will take a step back from past years, but people underestimate how much a good front seven can help out a weaker secondary.

boatwagon said:

I liked Claeys but the team never seemed to play beyond their abilities. I think PJ will elevate their play. I agree with everything you have said here. I see no reason why 8 wins (or more) is so hard to imagine.....but as a lifetime Minnesotan I should get the pessimism.

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I agree with the premise of your post,. I gotta say though that the team that won the Holiday Bowl played above their abilities and showed some real potential. I do also believe that it would have faded back to normal inconsistencies and motion penalties....