Flecks comment about playing FR

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Bayfieldgopher

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This got my attention from DL's Sports Huddle post.

"4) Sid asked if there are freshmen that will play this year:

“They’re going to have to,” Fleck quickly responded. He didn’t indicate what specific positions will have freshmen playing. He went on to say that this year’s contingent is going to be “young,” but next year they’ll be even younger."

"12) Mike Max asked about returning talent and implementing a new system:

Fleck assured Mike Max that the talent can be adapted; however, he acknowledged what they know about the returning players has been gleaned from films of last year and a different system."

We have a good nucleus coming back from a 9 win season but some holes to fill. TC played a lot of FR. It appears that PJ thinks that will be the case this Fall and also in 2018. It sounds like he wants his most talented players on the field in spite of lack of experience.

I wonder what positions Fleck means when he said "they're going to have to." WR, DB and DE are positions where FR could earn some early PT. Maybe even QB.
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
This got my attention from DL's Sports Huddle post.

"4) Sid asked if there are freshmen that will play this year:

“They’re going to have to,” Fleck quickly responded. He didn’t indicate what specific positions will have freshmen playing. He went on to say that this year’s contingent is going to be “young,” but next year they’ll be even younger."

"12) Mike Max asked about returning talent and implementing a new system:

Fleck assured Mike Max that the talent can be adapted; however, he acknowledged what they know about the returning players has been gleaned from films of last year and a different system."

We have a good nucleus coming back from a 9 win season but some holes to fill. TC played a lot of FR. It appears that PJ thinks that will be the case this Fall and also in 2018. It sounds like he wants his most talented players on the field in spite of lack of experience.

I wonder what positions Fleck means when he said "they're going to have to." WR, DB and DE are positions where FR could earn some early PT. Maybe even QB.
Click to expand...

Not surprising to me at all. Decent number of frosh play every year. Special teams immediately comes to mind. Spots will open up as special teams players from last year move to play in regular roles.
 

At this point I would not be surprised to see freshmen getting significant run at any scrimmage position except RB, OL, and LB.
 

Well, with our team winning 8 and 9 games all but one year in the last 5 is it, its going to be hard to swallow, especially with our having a pretty light schedule this coming season, but like we've seen with the BB team, is Fleck going to need to sacrifice immediate success and wins in year 1 & 2 in order to gain more wins in year 3 and 4?

If its what he needs to do in order to get us a win over Wisconsin and a Big West Title and maybe a B1G Conf Title, then I'm all for it. So play lots of freshman the next 2 seasons. Maybe we'll get lucky and the freshmen will end up being good enough that we won't have to suffer through a dip in the # of wins?

Maybe he's just trying to get people used to the idea of lowered expectations? Either way its interesting.

Oh, just thought of something, with his wanting to hit a homerun with his 2018 recruiting class, maybe he's hoping such statements will attract recruits hoping to get lots of playing time right away???
 

Nothing new. The Gophers have had many freshmen playing every year. It's been part of the problem not having enough talent such that we are forced to play many freshmen before they are developed. It started with playing shortell at qb in yr1, then p.nelson, and then the disaster of croft for 6 plays 2yrs ago. Last year true freshmen. C.coughlin, k.martin. t.devers, c.durr, a.winfield, t.johnson. probably others. At some point the program has to be less dependent on the new kids playing significant roles early.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 


Difference between freshman playing and starting. Last year freshman played, but it was mostly situational spot duty outside of Winfield.

Next year we could see a bunch starting.
 

Kill was the master of lowering expectations by saying how young we were (every year). Apparently Fleck knows the trick too.

Sent from my Commodore 64 using Tapatalk.
 

KillmeNow said:
Well, with our team winning 8 and 9 games all but one year in the last 5 is it, its going to be hard to swallow, especially with our having a pretty light schedule this coming season, but like we've seen with the BB team, is Fleck going to need to sacrifice immediate success and wins in year 1 & 2 in order to gain more wins in year 3 and 4?

If its what he needs to do in order to get us a win over Wisconsin and a Big West Title and maybe a B1G Conf Title, then I'm all for it. So play lots of freshman the next 2 seasons. Maybe we'll get lucky and the freshmen will end up being good enough that we won't have to suffer through a dip in the # of wins?

Maybe he's just trying to get people used to the idea of lowered expectations? Either way its interesting.

Oh, just thought of something, with his wanting to hit a homerun with his 2018 recruiting class, maybe he's hoping such statements will attract recruits hoping to get lots of playing time right away???
Click to expand...

Whether our coach was Fleck or Claeys, we were going to need to play a significant amount of freshman next year.

D-line: We don't have a single underclassman at DT and limited depth at DE
DB: We had 2 years where we didn't recruit many CBs, and we lost our top 2 due to the suspensions (Hardin, Buford).
QB: whoever plays will have limited to no D1 experience.
WR: we have bodies, but limited playmakers.
 

KillmeNow said:
Well, with our team winning 8 and 9 games all but one year in the last 5 is it, its going to be hard to swallow, especially with our having a pretty light schedule this coming season, but like we've seen with the BB team, is Fleck going to need to sacrifice immediate success and wins in year 1 & 2 in order to gain more wins in year 3 and 4?

If its what he needs to do in order to get us a win over Wisconsin and a Big West Title and maybe a B1G Conf Title, then I'm all for it. So play lots of freshman the next 2 seasons. Maybe we'll get lucky and the freshmen will end up being good enough that we won't have to suffer through a dip in the # of wins?

Maybe he's just trying to get people used to the idea of lowered expectations? Either way its interesting.

Oh, just thought of something, with his wanting to hit a homerun with his 2018 recruiting class, maybe he's hoping such statements will attract recruits hoping to get lots of playing time right away???
Click to expand...

Gotta disagree, can't imagine his system is too different, after all he coached under Kill/Claey's and co. for a couple of years. This isn't a rebuild job, he can still get to seven or eight wins in the regular season and win a bowl game with this schedule. This isn't a dumpster fire that needs a "culture change" we have talent, great backs, an awesome front seven, figure out the secondary and this team can be on last year's team's level.
 



WHB Brewer said:
Nothing new. The Gophers have had many freshmen playing every year. It's been part of the problem not having enough talent such that we are forced to play many freshmen before they are developed. It started with playing shortell at qb in yr1, then p.nelson, and then the disaster of croft for 6 plays 2yrs ago. Last year true freshmen. C.coughlin, k.martin. t.devers, c.durr, a.winfield, t.johnson. probably others. At some point the program has to be less dependent on the new kids playing significant roles early.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Show me a program that doesn't play several freshmen and I'll show you a team that doesn't recruit well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

John Galt said:
Whether our coach was Fleck or Claeys, we were going to need to play a significant amount of freshman next year.

D-line: We don't have a single underclassman at DT and limited depth at DE
DB: We had 2 years where we didn't recruit many CBs, and we lost our top 2 due to the suspensions (Hardin, Buford).
QB: whoever plays will have limited to no D1 experience.
WR: we have bodies, but limited playmakers.
Click to expand...

curious to see if the roster shakes out some more after Spring ball (some may not want to row the boat), if there are any position changes, if there are any late 2017 class recruit additions or transfers, what the defense calls for (speed rushers at DE? 3-4? less emphasis on shut down island corners?).

Maybe I misheard Fleck, but I thought he was saying he had a lot of experience, senior leadership for 2017, but 2018 could look young.

the juco addition, Silver is a defensive tackle, correct?

Richardson, Stelter, Moore, Merrick Jackson, Silver is actually a very mature, very experienced, defensive tackle group with some nice depth for 2017. Frosh Robinson and Hickcox are big already and they, and maybe Schirck, may play right away like Richardson, Moore, Stelter, Ekpe did as frosh.

At cornerback, Sawvel seemed to really like red-shirted Kiondre Thomas. They need him to help at cornerback. Shenault was looking good at end of season, I thought. Craighton can play; I think he battled some injuries last year. I wonder if Winfield gets asked to play corner.

At safety, Ayinde looked good later in the year. McGhee could be very good. Huff is smart, experienced, can help. Winfield a stud.

Staff did a great job landing highly regarded guys like Harris, Beck, Estes, HandyHolly, (Douglas?) for secondary help. Like Murray, Travis, Antonio Johnson, Wells, Cedric Thompson, Winfield, Durr, Hardin, they seem to be the type of guys who can compete effectively right away. Harris flipped from Cinci, Beck flipped from TxTech, Estes flipped from Mizzou, Douglas flipped from Oregon, HandyHolly with great listed offers.

There are five walk-on DBs on the roster. One, Dipre, transferred from scholarship at Kent State. He was a star for Ohio High School powerhouse St. Edwards in Cleveland, had multiple MAC offers and played right away as a true frosh at Kent State before transferring here. walk-on Cooper has some juco experience.

Curious to see during Spring where bunch of guys line up...Cashman, Martin, Coughlin, Howard, Hmielewski, all probably still growing and filling out frames, probably have some position flexibility. Beebe, Witham may be other guys you could move around if needed.
 

I dont believe in freshman playing unless they are markedly better. There is plenty of people who believe a 5th year senior is better than any true freshman can provide. however there are also exceptions to all rules
With what we have coming back and even though the "Boat" will be bouncing a bit this and next Falls if PJ is any type of coach he will get the palyers he has to provide wins

this is not a Western Michigan talent. We should be better and I think we are. He is not at rock bottom and when he comes out and says stuff like this no wonder player revolt!

he should think more like Ski U Mah than rowing boats. theres a great history behind Ski U Mah and he could be the promoter to a new generation knowing that history
 

DoubleB said:
I dont believe in freshman playing unless they are markedly better. There is plenty of people who believe a 5th year senior is better than any true freshman can provide. however there are also exceptions to all rules
With what we have coming back and even though the "Boat" will be bouncing a bit this and next Falls if PJ is any type of coach he will get the palyers he has to provide wins

this is not a Western Michigan talent. We should be better and I think we are. He is not at rock bottom and when he comes out and says stuff like this no wonder player revolt!

he should think more like Ski U Mah than rowing boats. theres a great history behind Ski U Mah and he could be the promoter to a new generation knowing that history
Click to expand...

Better than what? Last year?

Just because we won 9 games last year that doesn't necessarily mean Fleck or even the last staff would have improved upon it. We lost some important pieces. It's not a rebuild, but I wouldn't buy your West Division Champions shirt just yet.
 



dpodoll68 said:
At this point I would not be surprised to see freshmen getting significant run at any scrimmage position except RB, OL, and LB.
Click to expand...

During the signing day social Coach Fleck specifically said he expected some of the freshmen OL to get significant playing time next year "due to need" and went into the number of surgeries and that for spring ball they'd only have 6 healthy bodies (not sure if that was counting freshmen or not).

According to the roster the Gophers have 15 OL including 3 true freshmen (assuming I counted right which could be wrong). I'd hope that assuming all are healthy by fall that they'd be able to RS the three guys, but Fleck seemed like he was planning on playing them next season.

Obviously, it's up to anyone to decide for themselves how much of that was puffery over fact... :)

EDIT: Note - just read Noah Kuehn retired so it is now 14 OL including 3 true freshmen...
 

He's going to play the best 11 guys on offense and defense. If players want to revolt because a freshman is better than them then they should transfer. If upperclassmen don't want freshman to play at their position be better than them not a hard concept.
 

Best players play. If a FR is better than a JR or a SR at that position, he should play. If they're even, then redshirt the FR - but again, if the FR is a better player, and will do more to help the team win, then he should play.

In a perfect world, you would have depth at all positions, and be able to red-shirt every FR, but the Gophers don't have that type of depth - few teams do. players get hurt, transfer, leave school for various reasons - or, some recruits just don't pan out and never make a meaningful contribution. I would dare say that, after the top 10 or 15 teams in the country, every other team in the country has at least one or two positions where depth is thin and FR have a chance to make an immediate impact.
 

swingman said:
curious to see if the roster shakes out some more after Spring ball (some may not want to row the boat), if there are any position changes, if there are any late 2017 class recruit additions or transfers, what the defense calls for (speed rushers at DE? 3-4? less emphasis on shut down island corners?).

Maybe I misheard Fleck, but I thought he was saying he had a lot of experience, senior leadership for 2017, but 2018 could look young.

the juco addition, Silver is a defensive tackle, correct?

Richardson, Stelter, Moore, Merrick Jackson, Silver is actually a very mature, very experienced, defensive tackle group with some nice depth for 2017. Frosh Robinson and Hickcox are big already and they, and maybe Schirck, may play right away like Richardson, Moore, Stelter, Ekpe did as frosh.

At cornerback, Sawvel seemed to really like red-shirted Kiondre Thomas. They need him to help at cornerback. Shenault was looking good at end of season, I thought. Craighton can play; I think he battled some injuries last year. I wonder if Winfield gets asked to play corner.

At safety, Ayinde looked good later in the year. McGhee could be very good. Huff is smart, experienced, can help. Winfield a stud.

Staff did a great job landing highly regarded guys like Harris, Beck, Estes, HandyHolly, (Douglas?) for secondary help. Like Murray, Travis, Antonio Johnson, Wells, Cedric Thompson, Winfield, Durr, Hardin, they seem to be the type of guys who can compete effectively right away. Harris flipped from Cinci, Beck flipped from TxTech, Estes flipped from Mizzou, Douglas flipped from Oregon, HandyHolly with great listed offers.

There are five walk-on DBs on the roster. One, Dipre, transferred from scholarship at Kent State. He was a star for Ohio High School powerhouse St. Edwards in Cleveland, had multiple MAC offers and played right away as a true frosh at Kent State before transferring here. walk-on Cooper has some juco experience.

Curious to see during Spring where bunch of guys line up...Cashman, Martin, Coughlin, Howard, Hmielewski, all probably still growing and filling out frames, probably have some position flexibility. Beebe, Witham may be other guys you could move around if needed.
Click to expand...

I like the optimism, but here are my concerns:

1. At QB, we will be starting someone with little to no experience. I believe many of the guys have a higher upside than Mitch, but there will be some growing pains.
2. RB is set.
3. We lost our best WR. Chances are we end up playing at least 2 true freshman along with a freshman QB. Not a great recipe for success in the passing game right away, and we have a low bar to step over.
4. TE sets up well if Lingen returns and is healthy. I like this group quite a bit with Woz, Beebe, and some promising freshman. I would bet Paulson or Bursch plays as a freshman.
5. O-line loses their top 2 players from last year, Pirsig and Moore. Depth is okay, but who will play center? RT? The line has been in worse shape, but I don't feel great about it either.
6. D-tackle looks great for next year, with a huge drop-off in depth and talent in 2018.
7. DE remains a concern. The last staff never found a true pass rushing DE and had to resort to the 3-4 to cover this deficiency. What happens when the current staff plays a 4-3?
8. LB is the strongest and deepest it's been in a while.
9. CB will largely depend on whether Durr makes a full recovery by the start of the season. If so, he's the starter along with Shenault, with Thomas and Craighton as the nickel and dime corners. I feel okay with this set-up. If Durr can't go, one of the true freshman (Harris, Douglass, or Estes) probably end up with significant time as the 3rd/4th corner, which becomes a lot more dicey.
10. Safety got a huge boost with Winfield's return. This might be the biggest player impact from the off-season. Safety should be solid.
 

John Galt said:
I like the optimism, but here are my concerns:

1. At QB, we will be starting someone with little to no experience. I believe many of the guys have a higher upside than Mitch, but there will be some growing pains.
2. RB is set.
3. We lost our best WR. Chances are we end up playing at least 2 true freshman along with a freshman QB. Not a great recipe for success in the passing game right away, and we have a low bar to step over.
4. TE sets up well if Lingen returns and is healthy. I like this group quite a bit with Woz, Beebe, and some promising freshman. I would bet Paulson or Bursch plays as a freshman.
5. O-line loses their top 2 players from last year, Pirsig and Moore. Depth is okay, but who will play center? RT? The line has been in worse shape, but I don't feel great about it either.
6. D-tackle looks great for next year, with a huge drop-off in depth and talent in 2018.
7. DE remains a concern. The last staff never found a true pass rushing DE and had to resort to the 3-4 to cover this deficiency. What happens when the current staff plays a 4-3?
8. LB is the strongest and deepest it's been in a while.
9. CB will largely depend on whether Durr makes a full recovery by the start of the season. If so, he's the starter along with Shenault, with Thomas and Craighton as the nickel and dime corners. I feel okay with this set-up. If Durr can't go, one of the true freshman (Harris, Douglass, or Estes) probably end up with significant time as the 3rd/4th corner, which becomes a lot more dicey.
10. Safety got a huge boost with Winfield's return. This might be the biggest player impact from the off-season. Safety should be solid.
Click to expand...

Agree with nearly everything. Only disagreement would be:

4. Woz is the one I'm skeptical of because he's had hands of stone on the field. They say he doesn't drop anything in practice, but man he had several last year.
5. I'm not sure I'd say depth is OK, I'd say it's sketchy (depends what you're definition of OK is - it's not scary thin). With Noah Kuehn retiring they are down to 14 OL, 3 of which are true freshmen. Was it last year or the year before (or both) that they played at least 12 players on OL? That would be at least one true freshman HAVING to play (as opposed to them choosing to play, which could happen).
7. Devers could be that guy but he got hurt early. Hard to say if he could have kept it up with his thin frame but I'm sure they're hoping he can be a factor this year.
 

John Galt said:
I like the optimism, but here are my concerns:

1. At QB, we will be starting someone with little to no experience. I believe many of the guys have a higher upside than Mitch, but there will be some growing pains.
2. RB is set.
3. We lost our best WR. Chances are we end up playing at least 2 true freshman along with a freshman QB. Not a great recipe for success in the passing game right away, and we have a low bar to step over.
4. TE sets up well if Lingen returns and is healthy. I like this group quite a bit with Woz, Beebe, and some promising freshman. I would bet Paulson or Bursch plays as a freshman.
5. O-line loses their top 2 players from last year, Pirsig and Moore. Depth is okay, but who will play center? RT? The line has been in worse shape, but I don't feel great about it either.
6. D-tackle looks great for next year, with a huge drop-off in depth and talent in 2018.
7. DE remains a concern. The last staff never found a true pass rushing DE and had to resort to the 3-4 to cover this deficiency. What happens when the current staff plays a 4-3?
8. LB is the strongest and deepest it's been in a while.
9. CB will largely depend on whether Durr makes a full recovery by the start of the season. If so, he's the starter along with Shenault, with Thomas and Craighton as the nickel and dime corners. I feel okay with this set-up. If Durr can't go, one of the true freshman (Harris, Douglass, or Estes) probably end up with significant time as the 3rd/4th corner, which becomes a lot more dicey.
10. Safety got a huge boost with Winfield's return. This might be the biggest player impact from the off-season. Safety should be solid.
Click to expand...

#1: Mitch was awful last year. Awful. Whoever we play has a REALLY low bar to repeat the production at the QB position. I'd be pretty surprised if our QB play wasn't as good (or REALLY close). Like literally, Rhoda's Maryland game wasn't a huge drop off and he's back.
#2: Yep, RB we are set, presumably we're actually better. Juniors should be better than SO's, etc.
#3: Yeah, WR will be down, but it was down last year. Last year, we last KJ Maye, this year we lost Wolitarsky. We lost a higher percentage of our receiving yards between 15 and 16 than we will this year.
#4: TE will be, at worst, the same. If Lingen is healthy, it is a significant step up. If Lingen is not healthy, we can assume the other players will improve (at WORST, stay the same)
#5: OL. We completely agree. We lose our two best, but generally, it should be OK.
#6: DT - This should be one of our best units - When we rehash this convo next year, I'm with you, it'll be a problem. Here is to hoping Silver and Moore are impressive!
#7: Yeah, I hear what you're saying here. Devers had impressive moments. I actually thought Winston (I don't want to look up his last name) had moments as well. Elmore is solid, but not a pass rusher. So, this group is a we'll see, but it should be about the same, probably slightly better than last year (only using the assumption that players USUALLY improve). I also really like switching up to a 3-4 on passing situations. This is common for every program (even programs with good DE's), it's just how football has changed and I don't see it as a tip of the hat to weak DE play.
#8: LB - Yep, we agree. We should probably be slightly better again, played a lot of true FR and if Poock can stay healthy, we should be pretty good here.
#9: CB - This is our biggest drop IMO. We lost our two best.
#10: Yeah, we lost Travis and he was real good, but this is a deep and talented unit. Handy-Holley is an exciting recruit and there is a chance he might even get to RS (doubt it, because he seems like he'd help on special teams).

Long story, longer. . . we are bringing back a significant portion of a 9 win team. Our schedule is slightly more difficult and I realize we didn't have a lot of "big" wins, but we should be pretty good next season. I won't judge Fleck too critically if he doesn't live up that expectation, but I think i'm being reasonable.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
#3: Yeah, WR will be down, but it was down last year. Last year, we last KJ Maye, this year we lost Wolitarsky. We lost a higher percentage of our receiving yards between 15 and 16 than we will this year.
Click to expand...

This is false. Maye was 28% of the receiving yards in 15, Wolitarsky was 38% in 16. Plus we knew Wolitarsky was coming back this year, and we have no one comparable coming back next year.
 

John Galt said:
I like the optimism, but here are my concerns:

1. At QB, we will be starting someone with little to no experience. I believe many of the guys have a higher upside than Mitch, but there will be some growing pains. With Mitch's lack of production last season, our starter(s) this year should be able to reach that level if not exceed it. I believe the Fleck/Ciarrocca Offense will be a better passing offense than we have seen and they will be able to get one of the QB's to play well. I think Croft has the inside track based on nothing but a feeling his skill set fits the offense the best of the returners and Morgan will be able to RS because of it.
2. RB is set. Agreed. Think we will be even better as Brooks was injured early and never really got back on track after that. Plus I hope that they use them more evenly and throw in McCrary as that will save some wear on each of them, keeping them fresh all through the season.
3. We lost our best WR. Chances are we end up playing at least 2 true freshman along with a freshman QB. Not a great recipe for success in the passing game right away, and we have a low bar to step over. This group is been down for quite some time. Not sure if it is due to coaching or a lack of talent. As with the QB, the Fleck/Ciarrocca system seems to be a better passing offense than we have seen here previously. With 12 returners, there has to be at least two or three who can contribute in a big way. The three Frosh will push for playing time, but I believe Howard, Carter, Johnson, Still, Hmielewski can be dependable and big play threats. Gentry and Holland will get a fresh start and will emerge as players this coming season. We will find out in a hurry if it is talent or coaching that impacted this group previously
4. TE sets up well if Lingen returns and is healthy. I like this group quite a bit with Woz, Beebe, and some promising freshman. I would bet Paulson or Bursch plays as a freshman. We should be set here. Lingen returning will make this group strong, but if he doesn't Witham or Kieft can fill that void.
5. O-line loses their top 2 players from last year, Pirsig and Moore. Depth is okay, but who will play center? RT? The line has been in worse shape, but I don't feel great about it either. We are a little thin here. Need to have healthy seasons from those starters from last year, which hasn't happened in a few years, and have a few of the other returners step into the open spots.
6. D-tackle looks great for next year, with a huge drop-off in depth and talent in 2018. Agreed. Talent drop off after next year may be negated by good recruiting in 2018.
7. DE remains a concern. The last staff never found a true pass rushing DE and had to resort to the 3-4 to cover this deficiency. What happens when the current staff plays a 4-3? There shouldn't be a drop off from last season as Elmore is back and Winston played quite a bit. Devers should be better. Depth after those three is a concern.
8. LB is the strongest and deepest it's been in a while. Should be our most solid and deep position for many years to come.
9. CB will largely depend on whether Durr makes a full recovery by the start of the season. If so, he's the starter along with Shenault, with Thomas and Craighton as the nickel and dime corners. I feel okay with this set-up. If Durr can't go, one of the true freshman (Harris, Douglass, or Estes) probably end up with significant time as the 3rd/4th corner, which becomes a lot more dicey. Inexperience will be the concern here. Agreed. There is some talent in the returners and we don't know what we have in Dipre. Not a deep group heading into the season so staying healthy will be a concern.
10. Safety got a huge boost with Winfield's return. This might be the biggest player impact from the off-season. Safety should be solid. Agreed. Winfield really helps solidify this group and with the addition of the Handyman we should have some depth. Will miss the leadership of Travis, but Winfield can fill that void
Click to expand...

My take
 

I heard Fleck on Sunday and instantly thought some people would melt down on here. People have to realize that the foundation of the program was compromised when Kill stepped away, further when Claeys was let go and players dismissed, and with the hiring of Fleck.

Last year was the peak year for Kill/Claeys on the field. One can argue it should have been even better. There are big shoes to fill and some foundation restructuring needed. What Fleck pointed out is completely believable and understandable. We may have to take a step back over the next two years to go forward.

I don't think that is 1-11, but could be 6-6.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
I heard Fleck on Sunday and instantly thought some people would melt down on here. People have to realize that the foundation of the program was compromised when Kill stepped away, further when Claeys was let go and players dismissed, and with the hiring of Fleck.

Last year was the peak year for Kill/Claeys on the field. One can argue it should have been even better. There are big shoes to fill and some foundation restructuring needed. What Fleck pointed out is completely believable and understandable. We may have to take a step back over the next two years to go forward.

I don't think that is 1-11, but could be 6-6.
Click to expand...

I'm not convinced last year would have been the peak for TC. Possibly Kill since we would still have Limegrover and Zebrowski, but not TC.

Even though we all wanted to be 11-2 last year, 9-4 is still historically a really good year.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
#1: Mitch was awful last year. Awful. Whoever we play has a REALLY low bar to repeat the production at the QB position. I'd be pretty surprised if our QB play wasn't as good (or REALLY close). Like literally, Rhoda's Maryland game wasn't a huge drop off and he's back.
#2: Yep, RB we are set, presumably we're actually better. Juniors should be better than SO's, etc.
#3: Yeah, WR will be down, but it was down last year. Last year, we last KJ Maye, this year we lost Wolitarsky. We lost a higher percentage of our receiving yards between 15 and 16 than we will this year.
#4: TE will be, at worst, the same. If Lingen is healthy, it is a significant step up. If Lingen is not healthy, we can assume the other players will improve (at WORST, stay the same)
#5: OL. We completely agree. We lose our two best, but generally, it should be OK.
#6: DT - This should be one of our best units - When we rehash this convo next year, I'm with you, it'll be a problem. Here is to hoping Silver and Moore are impressive!
#7: Yeah, I hear what you're saying here. Devers had impressive moments. I actually thought Winston (I don't want to look up his last name) had moments as well. Elmore is solid, but not a pass rusher. So, this group is a we'll see, but it should be about the same, probably slightly better than last year (only using the assumption that players USUALLY improve). I also really like switching up to a 3-4 on passing situations. This is common for every program (even programs with good DE's), it's just how football has changed and I don't see it as a tip of the hat to weak DE play.
#8: LB - Yep, we agree. We should probably be slightly better again, played a lot of true FR and if Poock can stay healthy, we should be pretty good here.
#9: CB - This is our biggest drop IMO. We lost our two best.
#10: Yeah, we lost Travis and he was real good, but this is a deep and talented unit. Handy-Holley is an exciting recruit and there is a chance he might even get to RS (doubt it, because he seems like he'd help on special teams).

Long story, longer. . . we are bringing back a significant portion of a 9 win team. Our schedule is slightly more difficult and I realize we didn't have a lot of "big" wins, but we should be pretty good next season. I won't judge Fleck too critically if he doesn't live up that expectation, but I think i'm being reasonable.
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#1 Rhoda was underwhelming in his lone start. He easily could have had 3 INTs if Maryland felt like catching the ball. Mitch was a solid runner and one of the all-time greats at the QB sneak (Michigan aside). I think it's Mitch's running ability and leadership that we'll miss more than anything, not his arm.
 

John Galt said:
I'm not convinced last year would have been the peak for TC. Possibly Kill since we would still have Limegrover and Zebrowski, but not TC.

Even though we all wanted to be 11-2 last year, 9-4 is still historically a really good year.
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We would still be taking a step back under Claeys on the field IMO. The question is would he have survived any set back?
 

MaxyJR1 said:
We would still be taking a step back under Claeys on the field IMO. The question is would he have survived any set back?
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Claeys didn't survive 9-4, so I agree his odds weren't good if he would have taken a step back this year.

We'll never know how Claeys would have fared in 2017, and that's my point. Posters that say TC was 9-4 last year so anything worse than that under Fleck is a step back have no idea how TC would have fared this year. It's not a complete rebuild, we definitely have some great pieces in place, but there are also enough holes in the roster that chances are neither coach could win 9+ in 2017.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
I heard Fleck on Sunday and instantly thought some people would melt down on here. People have to realize that the foundation of the program was compromised when Kill stepped away, further when Claeys was let go and players dismissed, and with the hiring of Fleck.

Last year was the peak year for Kill/Claeys on the field. One can argue it should have been even better. There are big shoes to fill and some foundation restructuring needed. What Fleck pointed out is completely believable and understandable. We may have to take a step back over the next two years to go forward.

I don't think that is 1-11, but could be 6-6.
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You're back!
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
#5: OL. We completely agree. We lose our two best, but generally, it should be OK.
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O-line will be much, much better; not generally OK. Be interesting to hear if Bart Miller thinks we lose our two best.

Veterans: See how injuries and roster shakes out, but potentially the Gophers are returning five guys who have started and they are all huge, physically mature fourth and fifth year guys: Greene, Wright, Mayes, Calhoun, Weyler. That should be a great base.

Redshirts: Hear some very good things on Conner Olson. Schlueter was a big time recruit.

Replacing Moore, Pirsig: Greene and Wright both played some tackle last year. Connelly and Oseland got run at tackle. Weyler, Mayes, Olson, Schmitz (#1 ranked class of 2017 center in midwest) can all play center. Sassack and Andries both have college ready size and both had big time recruiting offers.

Connelly and Dovich were guys Kill/Limegrover and Claeys/Miller both had high praise for. Oseland was very highly recruited. All third year guys.

I think the impact Warinner and Callahan will have on this o-line group will be huge and immediate. Warinner is one of, if not THE best, o-line coaches in college football. And Callahan is no unproven, young chicken. Part of staff at WMU that will shortly have put o-line guys with less talent than here in the NFL in back-to-back years. Plus, expect the new strength and conditioning coach to have big impact on o line play.

Improved passing game/qb play will help o-line as well as will returning all three top running backs and hopefully getting Lingen in the mix.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Best players play. If a FR is better than a JR or a SR at that position, he should play. If they're even, then redshirt the FR - but again, if the FR is a better player, and will do more to help the team win, then he should play.

In a perfect world, you would have depth at all positions, and be able to red-shirt every FR, but the Gophers don't have that type of depth - few teams do. players get hurt, transfer, leave school for various reasons - or, some recruits just don't pan out and never make a meaningful contribution. I would dare say that, after the top 10 or 15 teams in the country, every other team in the country has at least one or two positions where depth is thin and FR have a chance to make an immediate impact.
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Yep, agree. This seems like such a non-issue. Frosh play all the time. Those top 10-15 teams you mention also have freshmen getting considerable playing time.
 

John Galt said:
#1 Rhoda was underwhelming in his lone start. He easily could have had 3 INTs if Maryland felt like catching the ball. Mitch was a solid runner and one of the all-time greats at the QB sneak (Michigan aside). I think it's Mitch's running ability and leadership that we'll miss more than anything, not his arm.
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FLeck does not have the QB as a planned part of the run. Leaves rushing to RBs. Don't think Mitch's running will be missed.
 

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