Fleck on KSTP

GFBfan said:

+1
Everything being Elite is too over the top for me. He also is contradictory with some of what he says. Example: His statement of "This culture isn't for everybody" If that is true why are we offering over 100 players for the 2018 class?
Want the GOPHERS to succeed, win a BIG West title, a BIG Championship and win the Rose Bowl. Ski-U-Mah

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What???????????????????????????????????

gopherdudepart2 said:

If his school ever has Big 10 caliber players either scholarship or PWO, please make sure to encourage him to have them attend Fleck's Minnesota camps.

I hope Fleck's plan comes to fruition. Would be nice to be able to see the Maroon and Gold held in the same esteem the Wisconsin and Iowa fans hold their teams.

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He already had his oars that I painted gold (not yellow Sean Morris)

MennoSota said:

I don't doubt Fleck, I just doubt your imagination regarding Fleck.

Have him win football games and we'll see.

Get rid of the two headed snake, Kaler and Coyle, and I will be happy.

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I don't have an "imagination" about Fleck. I haven't even really commented on my personal preference for or against his bold style. Most of my comments about Fleck have been in regards to needing someone that brings attention to Gopher Football, locally and nationally. With the addition of facilities, it's a great time for the program to get hyped to prospective recruits.
I liken Tracy Claeys to a limp-handed handshake or a Wallflower (definition: a person who has no one to dance with or she feels shy, awkward, or excluded at a party). He had no charisma. You and others may prefer that style, but it rarely works for college coaches unless they have some other overriding character strength or experience. I didn't see a strength in Claeys beyond his Defensive scheming.
On the otherhand, some posters have expressed their disdain for Fleck's style, even to the point of saying that they'll be happy if the Gophers win, but still won't like him b/c of his personality.
If his personality works for his players and the program, that is what matters. Not whether it works for me. I don't think TC's personality worked for the program. You can say he had 9 wins this season, but those 9 wins were with Jerry Kill's players, not his. IMO, in time, the Gophers would've been right back to where they have been for 50 years.

GFBfan said:

+1
Everything being Elite is too over the top for me. He also is contradictory with some of what he says. Example: His statement of "This culture isn't for everybody" If that is true why are we offering over 100 players for the 2018 class?
Want the GOPHERS to succeed, win a BIG West title, a BIG Championship and win the Rose Bowl. Ski-U-Mah

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Are you saying that by offering 100 players he has offered everyone? There are twice that many recruits in the state of Texas alone.

Halsey Hall said:

What???????????????????????????????????

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Seriously. Here are the offer counts for the B1G schools currently, according to 247, and last year's total offer counts for reference:

Rutgers: 191 (252 in 2017)
Michigan: 178 (308)
Maryland: 171 (271)
Minnesota: 155 (183)
Indiana: 149 (253)
Wisconsin: 139 (158)
Nebraska: 129 (281)
Penn State: 125 (182)
Michigan State: 124 (214)
Ohio State: 119 (142)
Purdue: 100 (266)
Illinois: 88 (388)
Iowa: 76 (123)
Northwestern: 52 (86)

Just because he wants to build a culture doesn't mean he shouldn't cast a wide net to find players that want to be a part of that culture. We'll probably end up north of 200 offers when it's all said and done and that's totally fine.

KillerGopherFan said:

I don't have an "imagination" about Fleck. I haven't even really commented on my personal preference for or against his bold style. Most of my comments about Fleck have been in regards to needing someone that brings attention to Gopher Football, locally and nationally. With the addition of facilities, it's a great time for the program to get hyped to prospective recruits.
I liken Tracy Claeys to a limp-handed handshake or a Wallflower (definition: a person who has no one to dance with or she feels shy, awkward, or excluded at a party). He had no charisma. You and others may prefer that style, but it rarely works for college coaches unless they have some other overriding character strength or experience. I didn't see a strength in Claeys beyond his Defensive scheming.
On the otherhand, some posters have expressed their disdain for Fleck's style, even to the point of saying that they'll be happy if the Gophers win, but still won't like him b/c of his personality.
If his personality works for his players and the program, that is what matters. Not whether it works for me. I don't think TC's personality worked for the program. You can say he had 9 wins this season, but those 9 wins were with Jerry Kill's players, not his. IMO, in time, the Gophers would've been right back to where they have been for 50 years.

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His players stood up for him. Your portrayal of Claeys isn't reality.

Gopher07 said:

Seriously. Here are the offer counts for the B1G schools currently, according to 247, and last year's total offer counts for reference:

Rutgers: 191 (252 in 2017)
Michigan: 178 (308)
Maryland: 171 (271)
Minnesota: 155 (183)
Indiana: 149 (253)
Wisconsin: 139 (158)
Nebraska: 129 (281)
Penn State: 125 (182)
Michigan State: 124 (214)
Ohio State: 119 (142)
Purdue: 100 (266)
Illinois: 88 (388)
Iowa: 76 (123)
Northwestern: 52 (86)

Just because he wants to build a culture doesn't mean he shouldn't cast a wide net to find players that want to be a part of that culture. We'll probably end up north of 200 offers when it's all said and done and that's totally fine.

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I will also add that you have to get offers out early. Recruits like to feel like they are wanted. If you are way behind everyone else with your offers because you want to really dig into the type of person each player is, you probably won't get much interest. Offers can be pulled at any time. If you offer someone, they come for a visit and you find out he isn't good for your culture, then pull the offer.

Sorry if you misunderstood my statement.
my perception of the previous two regimes(Kill/Claeys) was they were very selective in who they offered, because they were looking for a specific type of player that fit their style. It did not seem like they were putting out a ton of offers, especially this early. They wanted to evaluate through film, meetings and their summer camps before making offers for the most part.
With PJF he has stated that his culture is not for everyone, which to me means he is looking for a selective type of person/player. He has given out offers like he is handing out candy on Halloween. Don't get me wrong I don't mind that he is doing that, but it doesn't fit the "This program is not going to be for everyone" mantra he has been saying.

MennoSota said:

His players stood up for him. Your portrayal of Claeys isn't reality.

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Pretty much every coach that is fired has a few players say it wasn't a good decision. What did TC's players do that suggests their words or efforts to defend Claeys were exceptional? Did they not move on either weeks or even days after the dismissal? I don't think so.
I would bet if you surveyed the team right now, the majority would say it was for the best, and that they are energized for the future.

KillerGopherFan said:

Pretty much every coach that is fired has a few players say it wasn't a good decision. What did TC's players do that suggests their words or efforts to defend Claeys were exceptional? Did they not move on either weeks or even days after the dismissal? I don't think so.
I would bet if you surveyed the team right now, the majority would say it was for the best.

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I'd take that bet if there were a means to survey the present team.

GFBfan said:

Sorry if you misunderstood my statement.
my perception of the previous two regimes(Kill/Claeys) was they were very selective in who they offered, because they were looking for a specific type of player that fit their style. It did not seem like they were putting out a ton of offers, especially this early. They wanted to evaluate through film, meetings and their summer camps before making offers for the most part.
With PJF he has stated that his culture is not for everyone, which to me means he is looking for a selective type of person/player. He has given out offers like he is handing out candy on Halloween. Don't get me wrong I don't mind that he is doing that, but it doesn't fit the "This program is not going to be for everyone" mantra he has been saying.

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Your issue may be what is bolded in your quote above. You are making an assumption based upon how you interpret his statement. How do you not know that his plan is to cast a wide net in recruiting, knowing that only a small amount of people will actually want to join his unique culture? You are making the assumption that he is only giving offers to those folks who pass his rigorous litmus test (i'm using that term loosely) and only then, after he has done a thorough investigation of their character, will he in fact offer them a scholly.

KillerGopherFan said:

Careful. The Fleck doubters, like PMWinSTP and MennoSota, will be mocking you for being too enthused about Fleck, and point out his stylistic flaws and gimmicks.

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I laughed, thanks. Too funny. Clearly, you've selectively read my posts. Stated many times that I could care less about his shtick if he elevates the program beyond what Kill and Claeys have done and is consistently winning 8+ regular season games a season. I have said I think he has a real shot in 2019 to get Gophs to the Rose Bowl, maybe even a chance to run the table in the regular season that year. I want him to be that successful. Pretty sure that was the expectation when Coyle hired him...more wins, win titles, bigger bowls, etc.

gopherdudepart2 said:

...I hope Fleck's plan comes to fruition. Would be nice to be able to see the Maroon and Gold held in the same esteem the Wisconsin and Iowa fans hold their teams.

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If you don't hold Maroon and Gold in the same esteem that is you fault.


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GFBfan said:

+1
Everything being Elite is too over the top for me. He also is contradictory with some of what he says. Example: His statement of "This culture isn't for everybody" If that is true why are we offering over 100 players for the 2018 class?
Want the GOPHERS to succeed, win a BIG West title, a BIG Championship and win the Rose Bowl. Ski-U-Mah

Click to expand...

If it was for everyone, pretty sure he'd offer everyone. You do realize how many recruits there are in the entire nation right?

GFBfan said:

Sorry if you misunderstood my statement.
my perception of the previous two regimes(Kill/Claeys) was they were very selective in who they offered, because they were looking for a specific type of player that fit their style. It did not seem like they were putting out a ton of offers, especially this early. They wanted to evaluate through film, meetings and their summer camps before making offers for the most part.
With PJF he has stated that his culture is not for everyone, which to me means he is looking for a selective type of person/player. He has given out offers like he is handing out candy on Halloween. Don't get me wrong I don't mind that he is doing that, but it doesn't fit the "This program is not going to be for everyone" mantra he has been saying.

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To me it means more that when some recruits visit, they will realize this isn't for them. It doesn't fit their personality.

short ornery norwegian said:

As Spoofin said, there has to be room for a middle ground. I don't hate Fleck - I don't want to see the team fail.

But, I have not bought into Fleck's shtick the way many others have done.

Look, it's personal - I just don't like people who come on too strong. If Fleck is at 11 on the amp, I just wish he'd turn it down to 8 or 9. You can be up-beat without being over the top, and I just think some of this stuff is over the top. Maybe in time I'll get used to it. Maybe I won't. It's entirely possible that I wind up watching Gopher games while grinding my teeth - because I love the program, and I don't love the coach. If that happens, so be it.

I could be dead wrong. Fleck could be the greatest guy in the world and the greatest coach of all time. I just don't like him. He reminds me of this guy I knew in college who was always trying to recruit me as an Amway dealer.

That is where I'm at.

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I don't hate the guy, because his strength is obviously in selling the program and it's likely he may be able to bring in higher ranked players. My concern is what happens after the players get here, development etc and while his results at WMU were impressive he still has to prove it in the Big Ten. He's not a defensive guy and that concerns me a bit.

And, after only 6 weeks into his tenure I've listened to a select group of interviews and I think I can predict the not really "canned" but not quite spontaneous answers before he opens his mouth. It's a bit like watching a presidential debate, Now, there's nothing wrong with that, our politicians do it and many people eat it up, and his delivery is phenomenal. That's really his gift, a clear, strong voice without a hitch. A great communicator.

Frankly, despite his recent great career success and meteoric arc he's had a very rough patch in recent years with the loss of his infant son and whatever difficulties led to the divorce and that's obviously none of our business.

He alludes that his work (coaching and teaching) is sort of therapeutic for him. His main message is of relentless positivity in the face of obstacles, sacrifice for goals, etcHe is tireless, driven, and focused, possibly to the point of obsession. That attitude is admirable but I find myself at times wondering if he isn't yet in some small need of therapy himself with unresolved issues, or if this is all some sort of self-help program.

He seems to understand his program will not fit all personality types, and I'm not sure his catchphrases will reliably help with all the depressive rigors of life many go through but it certainly seems to positively affect many and who doesn't like a good and well-delivered motivational speech? Someone mentioned Joel Osteen (if Osteen snorted cocaine) and that's one good comparison. His message IMO not that unique but he has a great delivery.

short ornery norwegian said:

As Spoofin said, there has to be room for a middle ground. I don't hate Fleck - I don't want to see the team fail.

But, I have not bought into Fleck's shtick the way many others have done.

Look, it's personal - I just don't like people who come on too strong. If Fleck is at 11 on the amp, I just wish he'd turn it down to 8 or 9. You can be up-beat without being over the top, and I just think some of this stuff is over the top. Maybe in time I'll get used to it. Maybe I won't. It's entirely possible that I wind up watching Gopher games while grinding my teeth - because I love the program, and I don't love the coach. If that happens, so be it.

I could be dead wrong. Fleck could be the greatest guy in the world and the greatest coach of all time. I just don't like him. He reminds me of this guy I knew in college who was always trying to recruit me as an Amway dealer.

That is where I'm at.

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All kidding aside, your POV makes sense.